The Language (and travel) Thread

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm sure we've already discussed one very noticeable difference between American and British English: the former uses a number of simplified spellings (e.g., "plow" vs "plough").  Quite a few such spellings have been proposed in the US, but not all of them have been adopted as standard.  Some of the others have stuck around, however, often being used in casual writing, or when it's important to make the letters as big as possible, such as in headlines, advertisements, and traffic signs.

I'm wondering, does this sort of thing also exist in the UK or elsewhere?  For example, do theaters ever advertise "ONE NITE ONLY!!!!"?  There's a common traffic sign over here, "NO THRU TRAFFIC" (meaning "you can drive past this sign, but don't expect to get very far"), but I have no idea whether "through traffic" is even an expression anywhere else.

And maybe other countries have some simplified spellings of their own?

Comments?

 

[besleybean]

We are gradually accepting more Americansisms!

Some I am happy with, others not so.

Certainly American spelling is much more logical.

I like terms like 'faucet', because they are more specific and I like my language to be exact!

However by the same token:

although 'Fall' is beautifully poetic.

'Autumn' is more precise.

[Carol the Dabbler]

28 minutes ago, besleybean said:

... although 'Fall' is beautifully poetic.

'Autumn' is more precise.

That's odd -- if I were writing a poem, I'd be more likely to call it "autumn," but to me they mean exactly the same thing, so they're equally precise.

Do you ever see simplified spellings used, though -- and if so, in what contexts?

 

[besleybean]

Well no, because Autumn can't mean much else.

Whereas Fall:

a trip, a fall from grace, how a coin toss fell, 'it fell upon me'...

all those kind of things.

Autumn can be descriptive, but it generally just refers to the season.

[Carol the Dabbler]

16 hours ago, besleybean said:

Autumn can't mean much else.

Whereas Fall:

a trip, a fall from grace, how a coin toss fell, 'it fell upon me'...

all those kind of things.

The same could be said for any number of words in the English language, but it's generally quite clear from context.  I don't generally consider such words imprecise -- though of course someone could be intentionally imprecise by making a pun from the two meanings.  A friend of mine, when someone stumbles, often says "Have a nice trip -- see you in the fall!"

Now you've got me curious:  Do you avoid the word "ladder," for example, because in the UK it means two different things?  And if you do avoid it, what do you call those two things?

 

[besleybean]

You mean as in the structure and the run in tights?

No, becuae there isn't an alternative for 'ladder'...unless they are a 'step ladder' of course!

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

4 hours ago, besleybean said:

You mean as in the structure and the run in tights?

No, because there isn't an alternative for 'ladder'...unless they are a 'step ladder' of course!

I was going to ask if you're specific and always say "step ladder" (or whatever other kind you're using) -- but then I thought maybe they don't call it that over there.

Do you sometimes use the word "run" for what happens when you snag your hosiery?  I thought that was strictly an American term, and you folks always said "ladder" -- but then it's a whole lot easier to notice differences than to notice things that are the same (which is most of the language, actually).

 

[besleybean]

I think we do tend to say ladder for tights...

I think we used to say 'click' for the little pulls in them...

'Run' also has a series of issues!

[Carol the Dabbler]

13 minutes ago, besleybean said:

I think we do tend to say ladder for tights...

I think we used to say 'click' for the little pulls in them...

So you get clicks and ladders in your tights, whereas we get snags and runs in our pantyhose!

We also use the term tights, but they're made of thicker fabric in various colors, like leotards.

 

[besleybean]

Pantyhose is such a funny word....I think it actually says that name on the packets.

[Carol the Dabbler]

10 hours ago, besleybean said:

Pantyhose is such a funny word....I think it actually says that name on the packets.

Well, yes, since that's what they're trying to sell.  Sorta like a can of applesauce will generally say "applesauce" on the label.

The word "panty" is a synonym for "female underpants" over here, and "hose" is short for "hosiery."  So the word is, like the product itself, a combination of underpants and stockings.  (Though I think most women also wear underpants with their pantyhose.)

 

[besleybean]

I remember when you used to get actual pants...with tights attached!

But now they are just one garment and certainly not the same as knickers!

Stockings of course came first and and there are two separate parts to the garment...

of course stockings was what we used to call socks.

[Carol the Dabbler]

11 minutes ago, besleybean said:

I remember when you used to get actual pants...with tights attached!

Cool!  Don't think I've ever seen that.

13 minutes ago, besleybean said:

Of course stockings was what we used to call socks.

The terminology can indeed be confusing.  I guess that's why the dress-up kind are typically referred to here as "nylon stockings" or just "nylons."

[besleybean]

Yes, I meant to say that I assume that's where the term nylons originated...

then again, you get pop socks/knee highs.

[Carol the Dabbler]

"pop socks"?  I'm not familiar with that term.  Knee-highs here means nylons that fit like knee socks, and I assume same over there.

We also have some ankle-high nylons for wearing with pants (trousers to you!), and what most people here call peds or footies, which are even shorter, so they don't show under most shoes.

 

[besleybean]

Yep, we have all of those...

Pop sox was possibly a brand name.

[Carol the Dabbler]

28 minutes ago, besleybean said:

Pop sox was possibly a brand name.

Google says you're right about that, or to be specific, the brand is POP SQR.  And they're sold over here as well.  In fact, I've seen them (or possibly a knockoff) and thought they were cute and might make good around-the-house socks for winter, but they apparently come in only one size (namely, too small).  For anyone else who isn't familiar with the name, here is a link to some pictures.

 

[besleybean]

Oh no I am talking about  a completely different beast!

I was referring to knee highs.

So only nylon and defo not for winter.

Heck I wear thermal socks in winter!

[besleybean]

Sorry to reply to myself, but I thought on Twitter, Amanda said it better than me:

It’s called Autumn. Fall is something you do when you lean too far out of a window. #quintessentiallyenglish

[Carol the Dabbler]

No offense intended to either you or Ms. Abbington, but we mostly call it "fall" over here.

Of course it's not the only discrepancy between British and American English, but you got me curious about this one, so I looked up the history.  The original English word for this time of year was "harvest" -- but of course that was a bit ambiguous, since the word also referred to the crops that were being, well, harvested.  So the word "autumn" was borrowed from French (not difficult, since French was presumably still the language of the upper class in the 1300s).  But by the 1600s that term had apparently lost its new-word smell, so somebody thought of calling it "fall."  And of course the 1600s was also the time when British colonization of North America began -- so the colonists brought the trendy new word with them.  We've kept on using it, but apparently you folks got tired of it after a bit and went back to saying "autumn."

By the way, what word do you use for the season that comes after winter and before summer?  We call it "spring" over here, but of course that also means a curly metal thing, or a leap, or a place where water comes out of the ground.

 

[besleybean]

No offence taken and the point with Spring is that in English, there isn't an alternative.

Whereas Auumn is the perfect name for the one thing and nothing else.

[Carol the Dabbler]

5 hours ago, besleybean said:

the point with Spring is that in English, there isn't an alternative.

You could borrow the French word, as you did with "autumn.". 

 

[besleybean]

Point is, whatever word was used...it would be specialised, like Autumn.

Unlike 'fall' and it's multitudes of meanings.

This reminns me of other things:

Two weeks?  We haver a perfectly good term, use it: fortnight.

Two times?  Again, the word is 'twice'.

[Carol the Dabbler]

3 hours ago, besleybean said:

Two weeks?  We have a perfectly good term, use it: fortnight.

Sorry, but we rarely use that word over here, and when we do, it's for an intentional British effect.  The only time you're sure to hear "fortnight" being used by Americans is in coverage of the Wimbledon tennis tournament.

I'm gonna take a wild guess that you folks don't use some of the perfectly good specific terms that we have over here -- but I can't say what those might be, because I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of what terms Brits do and do not use.

 

[besleybean]

Well I meantioned faucet for you, which I think is good...

I'm trying to think of any other Americanisms I like, apart from your spelling, which is much more sensible...

Oh I didn't tell you about my 'bleachers' debate. 

I had never heard that word used over here, until one of my school kids used it the other day,

I still think it is a very odd word...but I do like that it means something specific.

Bangs, I may have mentioned before, is the one I just think is really hilarious.