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Episode 2.1, "A Scandal In Belgravia"

What did you think of "A Scandal In Belgravia?"  

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I was thinking more of art history class....

 

The Shadow (Symbol, Myth, and Metaphor)

 

"Where there is much light, the shadow is deep."

- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

The dark, mysterious essence of The Shadow has intrigued mankind since the earliest beginnings of Time. The Shadow is attached to all things, and all that is required to view a

Shadow is a little bit of light; for a Shadow cannot be seen unless we first have light.

 

In mythology, the Ancient Egyptians expressed the essence of The Shadow in Nephtys, the dark twin sister of Isis.

 

In astrology, The Shadow is expressed as Lilith, the dark and un-seeable side of the moon.

 

in folklore, The Shadow is expressed as the doppelganger, or "double walker".

 

In Psychology, The Shadow represents our alter ego

Read the rest at http://www.aseekersthoughts.com/2011/02/shadow-symbol-myth-and-metaphor.html :tongue:

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And the meaning in Peter Pan? :P

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Lost childhood? ;)

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What about the one that stands next to my bed and strokes my hair in the middle of the night?

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Pseud ... *tsk tsk* ... sweetie, that's not a shadow ....

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Is it you?!

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I was thinking more of art history class....

 

The Shadow (Symbol, Myth, and Metaphor)

 

"Where there is much light, the shadow is deep."

- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

The dark, mysterious essence of The Shadow has intrigued mankind since the earliest beginnings of Time. The Shadow is attached to all things, and all that is required to view a

Shadow is a little bit of light; for a Shadow cannot be seen unless we first have light.

 

In mythology, the Ancient Egyptians expressed the essence of The Shadow in Nephtys, the dark twin sister of Isis.

 

In astrology, The Shadow is expressed as Lilith, the dark and un-seeable side of the moon.

 

in folklore, The Shadow is expressed as the doppelganger, or "double walker".

 

In Psychology, The Shadow represents our alter ego

Read the rest at http://www.aseekersthoughts.com/2011/02/shadow-symbol-myth-and-metaphor.html :tongue:

 

^ But that's actually interesting and factual information!  Big difference between that and fiction analysis, (a.k.a. inventing and assigning meanings to fictional components that may or may not have any actual meaning).  Love the former, hated the latter.

 

 

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Is it you?!

:whistle:

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Continuing to read the Sherlock scripts, just finished off ASiB. First off ... wow. This script is a really good read, the most interesting one to date. You really get a sense of the challenge Irene presents to Sherlock, and how utterly ruthless they both are in pursuit of winning. Interesting stuff. And I love how Moffat thinks visually, not just verbally.

Two things of note that are different from what we see on screen. This interchange between Irene and John at the power station:

Quote

JOHN
For God's sake. We're not a couple.

IRENE ADLER
Yes, you are. (Sends text - shows John that it's sent) "I'm not dead. Let's have dinner."

J OHN
... Who the hell knows about Sherlock Holmes, but for the record, if anyone out there still cares, I'm not actually gay.

IRENE ADLER
I am. And look at us both.
A moment. And they both smile. Now laughing - a shared moment of warmth

(Italics mine.) I'm not sure if I like that better or not, but I find it interesting that Moffat has them bonding for a moment.

Then, if anyone's interested in how the Christmas scene would have played out if Loo Brealey hadn't requested (?) the "you always say such horrible things" line:

Quote

 

SHERLOCK
... Either way, Miss Hooper has love on her mind. That she's serious about him, is clear from the fact she's giving him a Christmas gift at all - that always suggests long term hopes, however forlorn - and the fact that she's seeing him tonight is evident from her make up and clothing. She's obviously trying to compensate for the size of her mouth and breasts -

As he speaks he's picked up the parcel, taken a look -

- and now freeze in the closest he gets to embarrassment. The label says Sherlock. An aching silence. Everyone avoiding looking at anyone - cos everyone saw this train crash coming.

Finally:
SHERLOCK
Thank you, Molly. This looks lovely. How thoughtful.

On Molly. So humiliated. Can't even look at him. Just gives a little nod. Maybe emits a tiny whimper.

SHERLOCK
I think John and I have a present for you too.

He darts a hopeful look at John, who gives a pained little nod. Molly gives another little. Anywhere but here, right now, please!! Sherlock is about to step away. But no! He can do better! He touches her arm.

SHERLOCK
Merry Christmas, Molly Hooper.

And he leans in and kisses her on the cheek. On John watching - that's new! Even human!! Sherlock straightens up from Molly, and she's all fine. Shy
but so thrilled. And even attempting to raise her eyeline to Sherlock's ...

 

Definitely like the aired version better, makes Molly seem less pathetic.

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the fact that all it takes for her to be fine is for sherlock to mention that John got her a present and to say merry Christmas with a kiss on the cheek is truly insulting.  The aired scene still sucks though.  ironically that script directions is pretty much what Moffat said about the ILY call follow up so I guess he didn’t really understand the reason why LB wanted it changed.  He definitely must view Molly as pathetic since his scripts certainly write her that way.

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I’ve always thought of this episode as the three who love Sherlock the most and how he interacts with each show the different types of love -friendship/true caring, infatuation/unrequited, and lust/thrill of the chase.

I do say that I’ve always enjoyed but never totally understood some parts of the John/Irene discussion and I would have loved to see them have a moment!


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Well, hello there cagenette! :welcome:  Excellent first post! :smile: I admit I'd never thought of it that way, but I think that's a good observation. Poor Molly, though; no fun to be the one representing unrequited. 

I've never completely understood the John/Irene discussion either, glad to know I'm not alone in this! Although I think I get it much better now than I used to. But I still feel like I'm a kid in a room where adults are talking above my head!

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I never thought there was anything not to get... now I feel like I'm missing something! The 'who knows about Sherlock Holmes' line is interesting, that wasn't in the scene I don't think? Though he says something similar to Mrs H later. 

And yes, Molly comes across completely pathetic in the script version, 'emits a tiny whimper'?! LB's version is infinitely better. I'm always surprised how very personal the insult about her mouth and breasts is, he doesn't usually insult people's physical attributes to that extent, why so nasty to Molly? I'd wonder if it was some tactic to make her back off a bit, if not for the fact I doubt Moffat thought about it that deeply. 

I love Greg's aghast expression when Irene's text-gasp plays, just after Sherlock kisses Molly's cheek, and for one horrified moment Greg thinks Sherlock made the noise. 

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OMG, this version would totally kill the whole beeping scene, which IMO turned out to be one of the best in the whole series :o The horror… the horror…

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1 hour ago, Pseudonym said:

why so nasty to Molly? 

Because Sherlock doesn’t respect her?  I can’t imagine him crossing that kind of line with Mrs. H so the fact he is capable to do so with Molly doesn’t say much for what he thinks of her.  His attitude towards Molly was actually pretty similar as it was towards John’s girlfriend.

Greg and John’s facial expressions during that scene are the only thing I enjoyed.

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2 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I never thought there was anything not to get... now I feel like I'm missing something! The 'who knows about Sherlock Holmes' line is interesting, that wasn't in the scene I don't think? Though he says something similar to Mrs H later. 

No, it's in there. 

For the longest time I puzzled over the "look at us both line", and .... well, I can't think of anything else right now. But I just get the sense that John and Irene are understanding each other's sentences better than I am. Maybe it's the lighting.

Quote

And yes, Molly comes across completely pathetic in the script version, 'emits a tiny whimper'?! LB's version is infinitely better. I'm always surprised how very personal the insult about her mouth and breasts is, he doesn't usually insult people's physical attributes to that extent, why so nasty to Molly? I'd wonder if it was some tactic to make her back off a bit, if not for the fact I doubt Moffat thought about it that deeply. 

 

I don't think Sherlock means to be insulting, he's just showing off how clever he is, as usual. I'm more convinced than ever that until that moment, he's been completely oblivious that she had feelings for him. Heck, he doesn't think anyone can have feelings for him. And he's a lot nastier to poor Phil, the guy who witnessed the death of the sportsman. But there, it's played for laughs, and here, because we like and (some of us) identify with Molly, we see how cruel it is. And so, finally, does Sherlock. That's my theory, anyway. 

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I can't remember who Phil or the sportsman are. (Likely because I'm taking a break from writing out an epic complaints form to a courier and am half brain fried.)

He's nasty to lots of people, but commenting on the size of her breasts seems unnecessary and beyond the pale. 

I don't have an issue with the look at us both, at least the point it's trying to make. Whether it's believable or not is another thing.

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I can't remember who Phil or the sportsman are. (Likely because I'm taking a break from writing out an epic complaints form to a courier and am half brain fried.)
He's nasty to lots of people, but commenting on the size of her breasts seems unnecessary and beyond the pale. 
I don't have an issue with the look at us both, at least the point it's trying to make. Whether it's believable or not is another thing.


Phil and the sportsman is the case of the back firing care out in the middle of nowhere the Sherlock is working on solving when Sherlock is picked up to go Buckingham Palace in his sheet.

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Ah, yea I wouldn't have remembered that. The guy with the boomerang was described as a sportsman?

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7 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I never thought there was anything not to get... now I feel like I'm missing something! The 'who knows about Sherlock Holmes' line is interesting, that wasn't in the scene I don't think? Though he says something similar to Mrs H later. 

And yes, Molly comes across completely pathetic in the script version, 'emits a tiny whimper'?! LB's version is infinitely better. I'm always surprised how very personal the insult about her mouth and breasts is, he doesn't usually insult people's physical attributes to that extent, why so nasty to Molly? I'd wonder if it was some tactic to make her back off a bit, if not for the fact I doubt Moffat thought about it that deeply. 

I love Greg's aghast expression when Irene's text-gasp plays, just after Sherlock kisses Molly's cheek, and for one horrified moment Greg thinks Sherlock made the noise. 

Haha!  Greg might totally think that!  Personally, I love that background moment when, after Molly takes off her coat, Rupert conveys with a look that one could totally miss if one were not paying attention to the background players (I always search out Inspector Lestrade) how very much Greg appreciates Molly's assets.  The same ones that Sherlock disparaged.  Greg didn't like that one bit.

Sherlolly shippers point to Sherlock's pointedly nasty insults about Molly's physical attributes as a sign that he secretly likes her.  Since time immemorial, boys have been making fun of girls they secretly like, right, and we know that Sherl does have his immature tendencies in the social arena.  He wouldn't want anybody to know of his feelings, so he vocally expresses the opposite.  Sherlock Holmes notices things about people--that's what he does--but the Christmas scene is at least the second time Sherl has commented on the size of Molly's mouth.  He seems to have studied her face at great length.  He notices when she changes her hair.  He stands extremely close to her when expressing these deductions.  There is an element of manipulation in noticing these details, of course, but maybe it's not the *only* reason Sherl has devoted quite a bit of his time to assessing Molly's physical traits.

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Well, yeah, there's that too. :P I remember when I was having trouble with a guy who had taken a dislike to me and causing me some trouble. That was everyone's theory -- that he secretly liked me and that's how he was showing it. Until I pointed out that he was gay. :rolleyes:

Phil was the guy that Sherlock described as "Morbidly obese, the undisguised halitosis of a single man living on his own, the right sleeve of an internet porn addict and the breathing pattern of an untreated heart condition. Low self-esteem, tiny IQ and a limited life expectancy –" Honestly, I think that's just as bad, if not worse, than commenting on Molly's attempts to draw attention to her mouth and breasts. I just care about her feelings more!

And I think Sherlock notices everything about everyone, he just doesn't always vocalize it. But I doubt he's secretly in love with Phil. Although that does open up some intriguing story possibilities...... hmm.....

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I really don't think Sherlock is meant to be attracted to Molly. He is way too comfortable around her. Same goes for John btw. I think this episode was meant to convey that sex does alarm him, at least as a personal experience. Irene unsettles him because he is attracted to her. 

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I’ve always thought Sherlock was attracted to qualities and features of people, but not “actually” people as a whole. I agree that Irene is the whole package and he doesn’t know what to do with that - making his blustering more fun to watch.


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And I go to my usual belief that Sherlock isn't attracted to Irene, merely intrigued by her, or perhaps attracted to her intelligence. But that's well trodden ground we've all been over before. 

What the sleeve of an internet porn addict looks like is not something I want to think about. :sick: I know it wasn't meant that literally, but still... :sick:

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7 hours ago, Arcadia said:

For the longest time I puzzled over the "look at us both line", and .... well, I can't think of anything else right now. But I just get the sense that John and Irene are understanding each other's sentences better than I am. Maybe it's the lighting.

I didn't get it at first either.  Seems to me like Irene could be slightly more explicit for the benefit of any befuddled audience members, even if John doesn't need it.  Instead of "Look at us both," maybe "But look how we both care about Sherlock."

Thanks, though -- from now on I'll just blame the lighting.

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