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In one episode do Sherlock and John both see Mary's ghost at the same time or does she appear to them separately?


Kat
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Sorry if this isn't the right category, but since ghosts appear in numerous adaptations of the Canon and quite a few stories by Conan Doyle I put this question here. You may move it elsewhere if it's possible.

What I mean is the scene when Sherlock's phone buzzes with the Irene Adler sound. John clearly sees Mary's ghost at one point, but does Sherlock see her too at the same time? Not in my view. The camera implies each man sees her alone even if the other man is in the same room at the exact moment. She tells them both things, but when Mary talks to Sherlock John can't hear or see her and vice versa, correct?  I thought she appears to each man in turn. Sherlock sees her, but then John can't see her talking to Sherlock even though he's in the same room. They never see or hear her both at the same time, right? Does anyone have another opinion?

Ghosts in films appear to a group of people, but they may appear to important people in their lives individually. Obviously Mary is one ghost, she doesn't multiply as an entity. This isn't a zombie or whatever interpretation.  Sorry if this sounds confusing. Hopefully I've been clear and if not you can ask.

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@Kat-- I moved this thread after reading only to the first comma, assuming that you had been unable to find this part of the forum.  But since you don't really get into Doyle's ghost stories (and since I don't recall that any of them had a real ghost anyhow), this would seem to be the appropriate area, so I didn't bother to move the thread back after reading the rest of your post.

You've posed an interesting question, and hopefully people who've watched those episodes more recently than I will have some input.

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I meant suppositions of ghosts rather or mysterious apparitions that are mentioned in the stories, but I'm not against you moving the question.

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Hey Kat, interesting question indeed. 

My intpretation of Mary's appearance in The Lying Detective is that she isn't a ghost at all, rather a figment of John's imagination. He's so upset by her death that a part of him simply refuses to acknowledge she's gone and projects a mental image of her back into his life. Not a hallucination exactly but the fantasy seems to be extremely intense and bordering on pathological. 

When Sherlock "sees" and talks to her too, I take that to mean he has deduced what's going on with John and simply accepted it in a spirit of "it's ok to not be ok". 

What does everyone else think? 

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This is exactly what my interpretation is. Sherlock noticed that John sees Mary (or senses her, or just leads an inner dialogue with a part of his psyche that escapes his control) and acknownledges this.

Or just shows off to impress John. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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  • 5 months later...

Thank you for your interest. Does that mean you're thinking of 'hallucinations' a very ill child might have and think s/he x has seen a dead grandmother? Children aged 8 may have not so harmful fevers (nowadays) and other ailments that may last two weeks even.  It took me a few months to come up with a way to paraphrase your helpful comments, everyone, and I'm still in the process of curing my leg. Don't worry it's not broken and the phantom of a wheelchair doesn't hang over my 30+ body.

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2 hours ago, Kat said:

I'm still in the process of curing my leg. Don't worry it's not broken and the phantom of a wheelchair doesn't hang over my 30+ body.

I don't know how your leg problem started out, but they can take time to heal!  I sprained my ankle in August, and even though it's considerably better now, it's still in the process.

2 hours ago, Kat said:

Does that mean you're thinking of 'hallucinations'

I can't speak for the others, but my feeling is that John is talking to Mary in somewhat the same sense that I sometimes have conversations with people who aren't there, simply because I want somebody to chat with.  Only in his case, it's not that simple.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Carol, I'm glad you're well. As for me I fell on the pavement in 2012 and the doctor didn't heal my leg right. It was serious because I couldn't bend my knee and had to walk like THAT Goebbles up the stairs. I found this out only in 2015 when I felt pain. Apparently it takes time for the effects of bad treatment to show.

In October 2021 I tripped because the wind blew. I just waited a lot for the bus near my grandmother's flat and when I reached my area this gale came up. In Europe we don't quite have tornados and hurricanes. I knew the wind would blow and this bus didn't arrive on time, though I went to the stop in advance. Recently I started to feel pain. After this fall I stood up and bend my knee. After a week I had a nice cut like an 8-year old would get and forgot about it. There's something wrong with this one leg of mine! I fell on the same leg.

As for Mary by "hallucinations" I meant like a primary school pupil who is lying ill in bed thinking it saw a grandma it liked and tells a parent it has seen her. It's a fever, a high one, not a real ghost. I took it to mean an issue of imagination, some sort of projection. The mind still baffles scientists from various disciplines. John is living in a kind of fantasy and I was wondering if Sherlock is functioning in a world of his own as well. Mary could "appear" to them both, but I doubt she'd do that at the same time. This isn't a half-dead zombie or vampire  multiplication sort of issue. I took Mary as a single entity and wasn't clear how she is "visible" to both men. From the answers I have a better pciture. The idea she "comes" to them separately and John can't hear what she "tells" Sherlock seems plausible.

If anyone wants to add anything they're welcome. I need to take medicine for the next 2 months and go for a control visit. Hopefully everyone is well and still interested in all things related to Sherlock Holmes, etc.

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1 hour ago, Kat said:

I need to take medicine for the next 2 months and go for a control visit.

For your leg, you mean?  I wish you well!

 

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