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Episode 2.3, "The Reichenbach Fall"


Undead Medic

What Did You Think Of "The Reichenbach Fall?"  

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it is a difficult episode to watch. SO well written and acted that the audience is truly pulled in. I have watched some of the "Reaction" vids on youtube and they were very intense. I watched it once but made a vow that I would not do so again until I could watch SHerlock's "Return" back to back.

 

ANdrew SCott's MOriarty is satisfyingly creppy and villainous.but no,I<for one do not expect him back. I could be wrong though.

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This episode had me crying in the first 5 minutes. I knew it was going to be hard to watch John's reaction to Sherlock's death but Martin and Benedict played everything so well I believe I cried for at least 10 minutes after the credits rolled.

I am super excited to see what Moffat's take John's reaction to Sherlock's return though I am tired of waiting.

Also, this could just be because I LOVE Andrew Scott, I don't believe that Moriarty is actually dead. I know that if he comes back it won't be Canon and that Moftiss and Scott 'confirmed' he won't be back there is a little part of me that refuses to lose hope that he'll come back at least in some tiny way. Of course I don't want him to turn into a villain who gets worn out. But, again, that probably is just me being silly.

:)

 

I feel quite confident that, while James Moriarty will not have survived, Andrew Scott will be back to reprise his role in the flashbacks necessary to explain what happened.  And he may come back that way in future, because there is still much to be revealed about the Holmes/Moriarty connection

 

As for John's reaction to Sherlock being alive ... when my daughter was 7, she decided to NOT get on the bus after school, but walk home herself.  It was a while before I realized she'd gone missing, the school was completely unhelpful, I was in absolute terror.  I found her only a block and a half away on someone's front stoop crying.

 

I wanted to KILL her. 

 

I wanted to hug her and never let go and cover her with kisses.

 

THEN kill her.

 

I think this will be another Martin Freeman tour de force as we see the reactions struggle with one another in his face, that which he does so well.

 

Then, I think he's going to punch Sherlock's lights out and walk away.  The best thing about Series 3 will not be finding out how Sherlock survived, for me.  It will be finding out how Sherlock and John's relationship does. 

 

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it is a difficult episode to watch. SO well written and acted that the audience is truly pulled in. I have watched some of the "Reaction" vids on youtube and they were very intense. I watched it once but made a vow that I would not do so again until I could watch SHerlock's "Return" back to back.

 

ANdrew SCott's MOriarty is satisfyingly creppy and villainous.but no,I<for one do not expect him back. I could be wrong though.

 

I hear you. I watched TRF twice ... the first time dubbed in German, then, when I had the blurays, the original version. Dear me, was that hard to press "play" then. If that weren't such an utterly ridiculous phrase to use in the context of a fictional event, I'd say I was traumatised and not ready yet to revisit the episode, but I so wanted to hear their final dialogue in their own voices. Still haven't seen it a third time, though, and the mere thought gives me tiny shivers. I'm a loon :wacko:.

 

And I agree about Moriarty probably not coming back. They have to let someone remain dead or they risk straying into Stargate territory after Irene Adler and Sherlock. Flashbacks of course, as Julia Mae said, nonwithstanding.

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... Martin and Benedict played everything so well I believe I cried for at least 10 minutes after the credits rolled. I am super excited to see what Moffat's take John's reaction to Sherlock's return ....

 

Also, this could just be because I LOVE Andrew Scott, I don't believe that Moriarty is actually dead.

 

There is at least one ray of hope for the return of Andrew Scott: Even if Jim Moriarty is really most sincerely dead, we cannot discount Scott appearing as Jim's brother (this is from canon!), Colonel James Moriarty.

 

(And one tiny nit-pick: "The Empty Hearse" was written by Mark Gatiss -- though I suspect that all three writers have input into all three episodes.)

 

I think this will be another Martin Freeman tour de force as we see the reactions struggle with one another in his face, that which he does so well.

 

Oh my yes -- well worth waiting for.

 

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And Molly's and Lestrade's and Mrs. Hudson's and..... and....

 

Well, Molly is in on it, and I suspect Lestrade will be, also.  If not the day it happened, soon after.   If the Canon informs this, then Holmes stayed dead long enough for the police to arrest the associates and Holmes had to get a few things done on the Continent.   I'm really expecting Adler to come back.

 

Mrs. Hudson, the iconic mom, will always forgive her "son" in her relief at his survival, just like I never so much as spoke a harsh word to my daughter. 

 

This leaves John even more like an outsider, at least, I can see him feeling that way.  Lestrade and Molly will know, but not let on to him any more than Sherlock or Mycroft.  I can see him being ready to wash his hands of the lot of them. 

 

I am most interested to see how Mr. Cumberbatch plays Holmes when he returns.  How much older he'll seem, how much more empathetic, how much more dangerous. 

 

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I really cannot see Sherlock dragging Lestrade into this. He is already in hot water for tipping Sherlock off on the night of the arrest and for using Sherlock on a lot of his cases. If Sherlock is judged to be a fake and a fraud this would put Lestrade, his arrest record and his carrier in jeopardy. I don't think Sherlock would further implicate him.

 

Yes, he enlisted Molly to help him but no one else knows that and so there is that element of the "return" to be dealt with.

 

Mrs. Hudson does love him as a son and will forgive him, of course but she believes him to be dead so his return is going to be emotional with fall out. I don't think he is going to get a free ticket on any section of this roller coaster ride.

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I really cannot see Sherlock dragging Lestrade into this.

 

Well, as it's my opinion that Mycroft is the planner behind all that happened to bring down Moriarty, I think it's Mycroft that will keep Lestrade in the loop.  Some of those in Moriarty's web will be dealt with by the - in the US we'd say "Federal" authorities, not sure what the equivalent is in the UK - and some will be dealt with by the police.

 

Sherlock went off on his own recruiting Molly, wanting at least one person he knew would do anything to keep him alive and keep his secret, but the rest of those people were Mycroft's. In my theory of events, at any rate.

 

When it's revealed to his superiors that Lestrade was assisting the Home Office, I suppose it would be, in this huge investigation and round-up of suspects, I imagine he'll be decorated.

 

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Some of those in Moriarty's web will be dealt with by the - in the US we'd say "Federal" authorities, not sure what the equivalent is in the UK - and some will be dealt with by the police.

It's my understanding that Scotland Yard serves as both the London City Police and also the British equivalent of the FBI, dealing with certain serious crimes anywhere in the UK. So it'll apparently all be dealt with by Scotland Yard -- very convenient from a dramatic point of view!

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Some of those in Moriarty's web will be dealt with by the - in the US we'd say "Federal" authorities, not sure what the equivalent is in the UK - and some will be dealt with by the police.

It's my understanding that Scotland Yard serves as both the London City Police and also the British equivalent of the FBI, dealing with certain serious crimes anywhere in the UK. So it'll apparently all be dealt with by Scotland Yard -- very convenient from a dramatic point of view!

 

 

I don't think so, I think the Home Office is sort of a catch-all for domestic and foreign law enforcement issues.  This is from Wikipedia:

 

 

 

Scotland Yard (officially New Scotland Yard, though an official Scotland Yard never has existed) is a metonym for the headquarters of the Metropolitan Police Service, the territorial police force responsible for policing most of London.

....

 

Commonly known as the Met, the Metropolitan Police Service is responsible for law enforcement within Greater London, excluding the square mile of the City of London, which is covered by the City of London Police. The London Underground and national rail networks are the responsibility of the British Transport Police.

 

 

I was a cop in my youth and jurisdictional issues were often a condundrum, but this would just make me crazy.  This is from the Home Office listing:

 

 

The Home Office is a ministerial department of the Government of the United Kingdom, responsible for immigration, security, and law and order. As such it is responsible for the police, UK Border Agency, and the Security Service (MI5). It is also in charge of government policy on security-related issues such as drugs, counter-terrorism, and ID cards. It was formerly responsible for the Prison Service and Probation Service, but these have transferred to the Ministry of Justice.

It continues to be known, especially in official papers and when referred to in Parliament, as the Home Department.[2]

 

 

 

So, this would be why Lestrade said in Baskerville, "I don't do everything your brother says..." referring to Mycroft.  And why Mycroft could shut down a police investigation into a dead guy at Irene Adler's house.

 

It's also one of the reasons I believe Sherlock has been working for the government all along on a contractual basis.  He said in the Great Game, "my contact in the Home Office."  That could just be another person he helped, but it also can be his contact, if you see what I mean.

 

 

 

 

 

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It's also one of the reasons I believe Sherlock has been working for the government all along on a contractual basis.  He said in the Great Game, "my contact in the Home Office."  That could just be another person he helped, but it also can be his contact, if you see what I mean.

And this would be very much in keeping with what some scholars have made of Sherlock being a "King's, or in this case, Queen's Messenger". He was decorated so many times with gift's from The Palace and other Head's of State that they believe that he did hold some kind of place in the British Government like Mycroft and was well paid for it. In "TSIB" at the interview at The Palace at which Mycroft plays "mother", Sherlock says something like "I will need equipment" and Mycroft immediately says "Anything you need".

 

I had forgotten that scene in "The Hound of the Baskerville" where Sherlock calls Lestrade his "handler" sent down by Mycroft. So even if Lestrade isn't fully taken into confidence of Sherlock's "death", Mycroft can at least keep him safe from any heavy fall out from the higher ups in Scotland Yard. He wouldn't lose his job all together.

 

And since he never lost faith in Sherlock, he wouldn't stop investigating in trying to prove Sherlock innocent especially if he was the one who got his hands on the phone, the camera, and the proof that it was Moriarty on the roof. It would indeed by a huge feather in his cap.

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It's also one of the reasons I believe Sherlock has been working for the government all along on a contractual basis.  He said in the Great Game, "my contact in the Home Office."  That could just be another person he helped, but it also can be his contact, if you see what I mean.

And this would be very much in keeping with what some scholars have made of Sherlock being a "King's, or in this case, Queen's Messenger". He was decorated so many times with gift's from The Palace and other Head's of State that they believe that he did hold some kind of place in the British Government like Mycroft and was well paid for it.

 

I didn't know that. I'm not very well-versed in the Canon. Interesting.   It's a monument to the writing on Sherlock that  suggests such a thing in a subtle way, even to the less or non-initiated.

 

And since he never lost faith in Sherlock, he wouldn't stop investigating in trying to prove Sherlock innocent especially if he was the one who got his hands on the phone, the camera, and the proof that it was Moriarty on the roof. It would indeed by a huge feather in his cap.

 

This could possibly be the big dichotomy in "The Empty Hearse,"  that there is a huge triumphant return, Lestrade gets that feather, Sherlock is more admired by the public than ever, everyone is happy and Sherlock loses the one thing he wanted, which was reconciliation with John Watson.  In the Canon, it seems to me that Watson accepts Holmes return far too easily and with too much equanimity. 

 

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that there is a huge triumphant return, Lestrade gets that feather, Sherlock is more admired by the public than ever, everyone is happy and Sherlock loses the one thing he wanted, which was reconciliation with John Watson.  In the Canon, it seems to me that Watson accepts Holmes return far too easily and with too much equanimity.

Oh something tells me that the animosity between John and Sherlock is forgiven sooner or later. Later in this case, for sure. But they will make up and work together again as partners. Even Mr. Gatiss said early on that keeping John at Baker Street for the duration would be way to lazy a way to go about it. It didn't happen in canon, so why in "Sherlock" but they do retain their friend and partnership for years to come.

 

As much as I love "The Adventure of the Empty House" as it heralds the return of Sherlock Holmes, it always seemed Sir Arthur Conan Doyle did gloss it over way to much. The only one in the whole story that was truly upset and angry with Holmes is Mrs. Hudson. Holmes tells Watson after he recovers from his faint...(Excuse me? No railing? No telling Holmes what a despicable god awful prat he is? Really?).....that his appearance at Baker Street sent her into "violent hysterics". So she indeed yells at him if not actually, all out, hits him a few times. Bring it on Mrs. H, I am so dying to see these reunions.

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the quote in your sigline, was also said in the first JJ Abrams Star Trek by none other than Mr. Spock (of course).

Indeed it was! Cool huh? It is mentioned by Spock that it is a quote first said by an ancestor of his. The Holmes genes must have come down to him through Amanda, his mother, or else the whole Holmes clan were aliens...... earth bound Vulcans, perhaps?

 

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the quote in your sigline, was also said in the first JJ Abrams Star Trek by none other than Mr. Spock (of course).

Indeed it was! Cool huh? It is mentioned by Spock that it is a quote first said by an ancestor of his. The Holmes genes must have come down to him through Amanda, his mother, or else the whole Holmes clan were aliens...... earth bound Vulcans, perhaps?

 

 

I accept this, as he is using the exact quote.  And we know how much Spock cared for his mum.  On the other side, what Doyle expressed is a basic part of the scientific method. I wonder if we searched we would be able to attribute something very similar to Darwin, or some ancient Greek?   But I believe it was Doyle who said it with such perfect succinctness. (Is that a word?)

 

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the quote in your sigline, was also said in the first JJ Abrams Star Trek by none other than Mr. Spock (of course).

Indeed it was! Cool huh? It is mentioned by Spock that it is a quote first said by an ancestor of his. The Holmes genes must have come down to him through Amanda, his mother, or else the whole Holmes clan were aliens...... earth bound Vulcans, perhaps?

 

 

There's an amazingly good Star Trek / Here Come the Brides crossover paperback novel called Ishmael that may explain the whole thing ....

 

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Oh, sorry, I posted that with only half my brain in gear.  There's no Holmes connection in Ishmael, near as I recall (haven't been able to find my copy for ages), though it does contain some intriguing hints regarding Spock's human ancestry.  (It takes place during the Brides era -- circa 1870? -- so Holmes would have been a young man at the time, and could well have wandered into the story after the book ended.)

 

Basically, it's a good Star Trek story (centering on Spock), and also provides the satisfying conclusion that Brides never got on television.  Out of print, I think, but well worth looking for, especially if you enjoyed both of those programs.

 

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Used to read a lot of those tie ins don't remember this one though. We have some good used book stores around will have to see what I can find. Sherlock was supposed to have traveled to the US, or so many scholars believe so it's not out of the question.

 

This funny little play on his name popped into my head, Spock's name. S for "Sherlock"....the p for that funny little thing that Vulcan's like to do with their name...T'ping...and all that. Then the "ock".....the rest of the name Sherl"ock".

 

A bit corny I suppose....but hey.

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Used to read a lot of those tie ins don't remember this one though. We have some good used book stores around will have to see what I can find. Sherlock was supposed to have traveled to the US, or so many scholars believe so it's not out of the question.

 

This funny little play on his name popped into my head, Spock's name. S for "Sherlock"....the p for that funny little thing that Vulcan's like to do with their name...T'ping...and all that. Then the "ock".....the rest of the name Sherl"ock".

 

A bit corny I suppose....but hey.

 

Connecting seemingly disparate elements is the sign of an intelligent mind!

 

Also schizophrenia.... 

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Also schizophrenia.... 

Yes, I did see the small print. Something my mother was diagnosed with just before she died. Sometimes I really really hate hereditary genes.

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Also schizophrenia.... 

Yes, I did see the small print. Something my mother was diagnosed with just before she died. Sometimes I really really hate hereditary genes.

 

 

I don't think there's any proof that schizophrenia is a genetically-linked trait.   Recent work suggests a viral connection.  Perhaps you have newer information than mine, though.  Also, I was making a joke and am really sorry if I offended you.  I'm sorry about your mom. 

 

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