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Speculation: Moriarty...

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Yes! It being Moffat we must have beard gags! It is written! :D

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They could bring back Andrew Scott as Moriarty's evil twin.

 

Hmm, that started as a joke, a take-off on the soap-opera cliche. But now I'm starting to like it.

 

The brother could be based on the more traditional professorial Moriarty.

 

And if Andrew Scott isn't available, they could put the beard back on that guy who plays Anderson.

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Yeah, he'd be perfect. (Just not nearly as perfect as Andrew Scott.)

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Maybe Benedict could persuade his new friend Mr Quinto?

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Maybe Benedict could persuade his new friend Mr Quinto?

 

I would love that... Zachary Quinto is soooo good at playing evil!

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I have a theory of my own on how Sherlock got away with killing himself.

  • Sherlock asked Molly for a favor they could have dressed up another dead body to look like Sherlock, While he was on the phone with john he said to look at him the whole time and the biker came by and knocked John down and during that moment some how Sherlock got to the bottom and replace the fake body with himself. Then his body would be sent to Molly and she would let him go.
I Don't know but that's just my theory ;)

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You know guys, if Moriarty's brother is in the original books, and so it would be canon, it could be that we've never even seen the real Moriarty. I mean Professor Moriarty...

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You know guys, if Moriarty's brother is in the original books, and so it would be canon, it could be that we've never even seen the real Moriarty. I mean Professor Moriarty...

 

Interesting thought!

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I agree. Since apparently they're both named James, we really have no way of knowing (at this point) which one we've seen.

 

Actually, though, their parents must have given them somewhat different names, just so they could tell them apart. (I'm thinking Jim-Bob and Jimmy-Joe.)

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JIM-BOB MORIARTY!! That's the best thing I've heard all day...really...

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I can't believe Moriarty is dead. For several reasons.

- They introduced such a brilliant nemesis and let him die in this stupid way? A suicide?

- Would Moriarty not like to see if his plan works? He really has destroyed Sherlock?

- Which is the easier death to fake: Shoot yourself or jump off the roof? He'd just need a blank cartridge and some (artificial) blood. Holmes never checked that he's really dead.

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Those are all good points, Dexter. I've spent a fair amount of time rolling similar thoughts around in my own head, but unfortunately I always hit a "dead end."

 

In a way, your first point may be the strongest argument against Moriarty's return. Conan Doyle appears to have invented the great nemesis for the sole purpose of killing Holmes. Although Holmes does eventually reappear, subsequent Conan Doyle stories contain not the slightest hint that Moriarty himself survived the plunge over the Reichenbach Falls. I doubt that Moffat & Gatiss would go against canon to the extent of letting their Moriarty return.

 

You're undeniably right that Moriarty would have relished seeing Sherlock dead and disgraced -- but he is so utterly convinced of his own superiority that he may not need to see his plan work, any more than you or I need to see the light go out when we close the fridge door.

 

Even blank cartridges contain a normal load of gunpowder, capped with a "wad" to keep the powder from spilling out. Either the explosive shock wave or the forcefully-propelled wad can be lethal at very close range -- so firing a blank at the roof of your own mouth is not recommended! [Real-world note: Due to just such safety concerns, there was presumably no cartridge whatsoever in the gun that Andrew Scott used in this scene.]

 

It's true that Sherlock did not choose to inspect the body, but Moriarty could not have known that ahead of time. So if he was planning to fake his own death, he would have needed to provide a "corpse" that could pass very close inspection, and I have not been able to find any indication of this.

 

So alas, I doubt that we'll be seeing Jim-Bob again. (Jimmy-Joe may turn up eventually, though, and I hope he also looks like Andrew Scott!)

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Carol, thank you for your detailed answer, I really appreciate that.

 

#1 I do not really know the original stories. Are the modern stories kept close to the original ones? (I think in case of Baskerville it is rather loose). I still think Moriarty's death is somehow worthless. But yeah, you made a good point. I must say it was a very surprising death and after thinking about it maybe better this way than an extended action film showdown or whatever....

 

#2 In my mind the suicide makes Moriarty lose the game or at least make it a draw. I'd have expected Moriarty's character would always go for a win. And after defeating Sherlock he'd be looking for a new challange. Do you think he thought there was nothing else to come? (The question we're all afraid of is, IF Moriarty is dead, what will come for Sherlock? Can the third season top that?)

 

#3 Sherlock could have known that Moriarty faked his death and did not want to let him know that he knew. But indeed this is all speculation.

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One other thing, when I say the death of Moriarty was so surprising. Yeah.

Sherlock figured he did not need to kill himself as long as he got Moriarty. Then he could get the assasing-stopping-code from him.

And Moriarty's only choice is to kill himself to avoid Sherlock getting that code? Did he expect that Sherlock would torture him to get the code? Couldn't he have just walked away?

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I do not really know the original stories. Are the modern stories kept close to the original ones?

 

I'm certainly no Conan Doyle expert either, but I have recently read "The Final Problem," and other than the apparent deaths of Holmes and Moriarty, I see very little resemblance to "The Reichenbach Fall." I take this to mean that Moffat & Gatiss see those apparent deaths as the heart of the story. I assume that they consider Holmes's return in "The Empty House" to be equally key, along with the fact that Conan Doyle's Moriarty is never seen again. I think this implies that Jim Moriarty really is dead.

 

#2 In my mind the suicide makes Moriarty lose the game ....

 

Most people would see it that way, I think, but perhaps Moriarty is obsessive to the point that all that really matters to him is to "Get Sherlock."

 

The question we're all afraid of is, IF Moriarty is dead, what will come for Sherlock? Can the third season top that?

 

Quite true! Whether he's dead or not, how can they possibly top "The Reichenbach Fall"? But one might have said the same thing about "The Great Game," and I think most of us agree that they did somehow manage to top even that tour de force. The wait will NOT be easy, but I fully expect it to be worthwhile. (P.S. to Messrs. Moffat & Gatiss: Anything roughly as good as TGG or TRF will be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure my nerves could stand anything much better!)

 

Sherlock could have known that Moriarty faked his death and did not want to let him know that he knew. But indeed this is all speculation.

 

Indeed.

 

And Moriarty's only choice is to kill himself to avoid Sherlock getting that code? Did he expect that Sherlock would torture him to get the code? Couldn't he have just walked away?

 

Sherlock appears to have convinced him when he said, "Just because I am on the side of the angels, don't assume for one second that I am one of them." And like most bullies, Moriarty is probably something of a physical coward, so he couldn't trust himself not to tell Sherlock the password. Yes, I think he felt cornered.

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Thanks again for your detailed answers. To me this basically concludes the discussion. I agree Moiarty's probably dead; I can't imagine now how this could continue and come to another end.

 

Maybe the authors wanted to leave the question open for themselves, if not then surely for us.

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Presumably we'll find out for sure, eventually.

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There are plenty of other amazing villians in the canon that Moftiss can use. You must remember that Moriarty is actually only in ONE story (The Final Problem). He is mentioned again in The Empty House because when Sherlock returns he has to explain to Watson how he did it. People have this big idea of Moriarty being Sherlock Holmes's arch nemesis but that is all basically because of the Fall and the great imagery and mystery surrounding it. The remaining 52 stories are just as exciting and interesting with other villains.

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.... People have this big idea of Moriarty being Sherlock Holmes's arch nemesis but that is all basically because of the Fall and the great imagery and mystery surrounding it. The remaining 52 stories are just as exciting and interesting with other villains.

 

I must confess that I was one of those people until the past year or two, because my knowledge of Holmes had been largely through osmosis from what "everybody knows," enhanced now and then by movies and television -- which I suspect is roughly the situation with most people. (Even now, my enlightenment is due primarily to the DVD commentaries, though I have also read several of the stories that have been adapted for the series.) The common perception of Moriarty as Holmes's only enemy apparently comes from his frequent appearances in the movies.

 

Now that Moffat & Gatiss have apparently ruled out any future use of Moriarty in their own series, we are presumably in for quite an interesting assortment of other villains. I'm thinking it was probably a smart move on their part, to use the inevitable Moriarty to such excellent advantage, then move on into fresh territory.

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I am moving my answer from the "improbableone" thread to this one:

 

Media Coverage video: [media=]

[/media]

 

Really thanks for providing this video. (BTW it is absolutely realistically made). But again (I now others have recongized before): In the news video it is NOT mentioned that also the body of Moriarty was found. Sherlocks death was referenced to have happened yesterday. So who has removed the body before it was found and why? I hope this will be explained in the next season otherwise it is a severe error.

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I don't know, trying to think about WHY Moriarty would commit suicide to keep Sherlock from getting the sniper code, and all these other logical questions, just don't make sense to me. I mean, he is insane, right? Completely off his rocker. So he wouldn't think logically. He also wouldn't have to be on drugs to act like that if he was a true pyschopath and about to kill someone. Have you ever watched Charles Manson interviews? Nuts!

 

Moriarty starts that scene off talking about how "boring" everything is, everyone, except Sherlock, and now even Sherlock will be boring since he has defeated him. So maybe he wants to kill himself. Again, not logical.

 

I think it's possible that Sherlock thought of the idea that Molly or someone should check the roof because they were meeting up there and there might be evidence...Lestrade could be in on it too. I mean we are talking about Sherlock.

 

I do love the idea of a Moriarty brother/twin...and having Andrew Scott come back in some capacity. Either nightmares or as the evil brother (of course he might have to look a little different).

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... he is insane, right? Completely off his rocker. So he wouldn't think logically....

 

I'm pretty sure that each insane person is different, and is logical in their own way (just like anybody else). Moriarty is obsessive, so to him it would be logical to achieve his goals by whatever means necessary -- even though most of us would consider those means excessive.

 

I think it's possible that Sherlock thought of the idea that Molly or someone should check the roof because they were meeting up there and there might be evidence...

 

I agree. I think I posted on another thread that Sherlock's instructions to Molly might have covered the possibility that he might have to kill Moriarty, in which case she was to get one of the hospital's helicopter pilots to whisk the body away. I have absolutely no idea why he would have wanted that done, but I trust that he / Moftiss have a good reason, which will be revealed to us in good time.

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I don't believe he is dead. I know the original text and all the facts just tell me he isn't alive.
But I can't understand WHY HE DID IT before Sherlock.
I can't imagine that he was so stupid to make this mistake.

But I'm sure we'll see Jim in the new season. Perhaps memories or something like that.


He killed himself so that Sherlock would have to too as well. He is a sadistic man who wanted Sherlock to suffer without his friends or really die. Although I don't know if would have expected Sherlock to fake his death, but then again he had one goal and mind and he usually thought everything out as did Sherlock, so who knows.

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