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I definitely think Sherlock leans more J than P and overall more I than E. What I'm not decided on is whether he's an S or an N but that's the part that I least understand about the MBP types anyway. 

And if we consulted Mrs Hudson, even the T vs F bit would be up for debate. :lol:

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On 8/24/2021 at 1:59 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:


I'm torn between thinking he must be a P and thinking he must be a J.  Of course very few people are strictly one or the other.  He's sufficiently P to perceive what the situation *is* -- yet sufficiently J to judge that's not how it *should* be, and therefore he recognizes clues.

Regarding E vs I -- as an introvert, I can state that being one doesn't necessarily stop a person from wanting to show off.   :D   But maybe that's one of those in-between things as well.

 

 

Yeah, Sherlock is a tough nut to crack since he breaks so many standards and pretty much makes up his own rules. 

The E vs. I is really variable and some of that probably comes from learned abilities outside one's own, personal makeup. Sherlock’s confidence level, at least what is visible to most others, is high enough that he could be an I in an E's clothing,  so to speak. 

Just the fact that he runs by his own rules,  and his deductive path isn't always obvious to others makes me think I. E types kind of wear that on their sleeves more, at least in my experience.  

 

This is a fun topic to ponder, even if it ultimately makes little sense to do so. 

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2 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

I definitely think Sherlock leans more J than P and overall more I than E. What I'm not decided on is whether he's an S or an N but that's the part that I least understand about the MBP types anyway. 

And if we consulted Mrs Hudson, even the T vs F bit would be up for debate. :lol:

Lol, on Mrs. Hudson... she knows Sherlock better than he thinks she does... though he probably doesn't waste brainwaves pondering that.

I lean more towards J as well. The S and N is difficult: he's a champion at taking note of what's around him (S) but the deductive skills and forward thinking seems more intuitive.  He's probably a combination of both, with something a little extra thrown in for good measure. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh, I see Sherlock's MBTI profile debate has cropped up again.  I too lean toward INTJ, though he does often seem more or less equally balanced between opposing characteristics (E/I; J/P)  We are all a mix of everything to varying degrees.  I think SH's ability to morph into seemingly contradictory types at the drop of a hat is the reason the (invented) backstory of him being a travelling actor in his youth, prior to the consulting business is such an appealing idea.

Fundamentally, I think SH skews to Introversion because his inner life is so active, his down moods so intense that he doesn't get off the couch for days, and his consideration of 'people' and their silly demands are not top priority.  But, like a consummate performer (many of whom are self-admittedly very introverted in real life), SH can adopt the costume of the Extrovert when it suits.  He retired before he was even 50 and went to the seaside to tend bees . . .I'd say the fascination with bee husbandry goes to to Is because the Es would not have the patience for such intricate, painstaking work.  I do think SH prefers bees to people.

For all his faults, SH has also been called a sort of Christ figure by some, and actually he's got such an array of strengths that he's very hard to 'type'.  As somebody said, he makes his own rules.  Kind of like Jesus Himself in that regard.  We can't subject Jesus to the MBTI either because as the perfectly balanced personality, He'd come out even on all categories.

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1 hour ago, Hikari said:

... like a consummate performer (many of whom are self-admittedly very introverted in real life), SH can adopt the costume of the Extrovert when it suits.

Good point.

It sounds contradictory only because of the common confusion between introversion and shyness.  I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but I can "perform"  (e.g., socializing at big parties) for a while if need be, and even enjoy it at the time.  It wears me out, though.

 

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1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Good point.

It sounds contradictory only because of the common confusion between introversion and shyness.  I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but I can "perform"  (e.g., socializing at big parties) for a while if need be, and even enjoy it at the time.  It wears me out, though.

 

Me too, my social behavior is entirely performative.

I am both an introvert and shy and have learned to mask that over the years. 

But with Sherlock, it seems more than a necessity. He really does seem to crave attention and an audience. 

Overall, I see him more as an introvert than an extrovert too though. 

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22 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

Me too, my social behavior is entirely performative.

I am both an introvert and shy and have learned to mask that over the years. 

But with Sherlock, it seems more than a necessity. He really does seem to crave attention and an audience. 

Overall, I see him more as an introvert than an extrovert too though. 

Notice that his preferred audience is generally an audience of one--John.  SH seeks Watson's approval  and admiration (not that he would admit to it) and for the most part, all other people are noise.  When he shows off for a larger gathering (e.g. at the Christmas drinkies) it's because he's in a mood and wants to be as irritating as possible in the hopes that everyone (save John) will Go Away.  He enjoyed showing off for the Woman but he learnt his lesson there . . that didn't work out so well.  

However did SH function before Watson entered his orbit?-- Interesting question.  Maybe he didn't feel the need of an audience until the perfect one walked into his life.

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1 hour ago, Hikari said:

Notice that his preferred audience is generally an audience of one--John. 

True.  Maybe that's partly because there's generally no one else around?  But yeah, he doesn't seem to want/need a large audience (i.e., >1), in any case.

1 hour ago, Hikari said:

However did SH function before Watson entered his orbit?-- Interesting question.  Maybe he didn't feel the need of an audience until the perfect one walked into his life.

I have the impression that Mike Stamford had served in that capacity from time to time (which is why he can tell John that Sherlock is "always like that").  Undoubtedly Greg Lestrade has also served on numerous occasions.  And perhaps the perpetual mutual irritation between Sherlock and and Anderson/Donovan arose because he insists (in their opinion) on showing off and they persist (in his opinion) in failing to appreciate him.

Does he show off for Mrs. Hudson?  I'm not sure....

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19 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

True.  Maybe that's partly because there's generally no one else around?  But yeah, he doesn't seem to want/need a large audience (i.e., >1), in any case.

I have the impression that Mike Stamford had served in that capacity from time to time (which is why he can tell John that Sherlock is "always like that").  Undoubtedly Greg Lestrade has also served on numerous occasions.  And perhaps the perpetual mutual irritation between Sherlock and and Anderson/Donovan arose because he insists (in their opinion) on showing off and they persist (in his opinion) in failing to appreciate him.

Does he show off for Mrs. Hudson?  I'm not sure....

And the reason Sherlock generally has no one else around him besides John is because he likes it that way--he will tolerate other People as he must but he does not go out of his way to cultivate other friends.   Those who choose to engage with Sherl put up with his idiosyncrasies and frequent verbal abuse.  Not many people are willing to do that.  

For such an important personage in events of the greatest partnership of all time, Mike Stamford (simply called 'Young Stamford' in ASIS; don't think Young Stamford actually gets a first name) functions as a plot device never to be seen or heard from again.  It's hard to imagine that SH had anything like the intense connection with him that he later shares with Watson, but in Stamford, another medical man, he found at least temporarily, someone else who didn't tell him to get stuffed and was at least, a mild friend willing to do him a favor.  There may have been something a bit self-serving in Stamford's introduction of Holmes & Watson--Stamford did not want to be Sherlock Holmes's flatmate himself and realized he needed to get things sorted so that didn't happen.  :)  If it was a slightly back-handed favor, we are glad he did it.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hikari said:

... Stamford (simply called 'Young Stamford' in ASIS; don't think Young Stamford actually gets a first name) functions as a plot device never to be seen or heard from again

I'm pretty sure you're right about all of that, and therefore YS may well not have remained one of Holmes's frequent one-man audiences (at least not on-stage, so to speak), but they do seem to have a bit of history, going by his rather detailed descriptions of Holmes's behavior.

I was actually talking about Sherlock, but pretty much the same comments apply, judging by Mike's "always."

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/10/2021 at 2:20 AM, Hikari said:

However did SH function before Watson entered his orbit?-- Interesting question.  Maybe he didn't feel the need of an audience until the perfect one walked into his life.

 

On 9/10/2021 at 3:52 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

I have the impression that Mike Stamford had served in that capacity from time to time (which is why he can tell John that Sherlock is "always like that").  Undoubtedly Greg Lestrade has also served on numerous occasions.  And perhaps the perpetual mutual irritation between Sherlock and and Anderson/Donovan arose because he insists (in their opinion) on showing off and they persist (in his opinion) in failing to appreciate him.

 

Hey guys, don't forget Billy the skull, the long suffering fire place decor, he certainly dodged a bullet before being peed. 

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On 9/9/2021 at 2:16 AM, T.o.b.y said:

Me too, my social behavior is entirely performative.

I am both an introvert and shy and have learned to mask that over the years. 

But with Sherlock, it seems more than a necessity. He really does seem to crave attention and an audience. 

Overall, I see him more as an introvert than an extrovert too though. 

Any guess about what his enneagram tritype could be? Even people with the same alphabet soup could seems very different in behaviour because they have different coping strategies. Enneagram explains about emotional coping strategies. For example, enneagram three is characterized by constant desire for status acknowledgement and the way they seek for this is by making achievements. When we are talking about tritype we are dipping into the realm of subtle nuances that affects how the internal processes become expressed outside.

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  • 4 months later...

I have been interested in the methods of deduction and detection for a long time. I read an article on Dr Joseph Bell, the man whom Sherlock Holmes was based on. He could tell exactly where his patient had been and what his profession was most likely.

When Holmes first meets Watson in the story and on screen. He deduces Watson correctly. Dr Joseph Bell did the exact same thing when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle first saw deduction at work. Therefore, it stands to reason that one could learn to deduce to a great extent of accuracy, like Holmes. 

Is there a deduction thread? A game where users post pictures of desks or shoes or whatever and users compete for deduction points to see whom is the best deducer?

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Hello, SLarratt, and welcome to Sherlock Forum!   :welcome:

2 hours ago, SLarratt said:

When Holmes first meets Watson in the story and on screen. He deduces Watson correctly. Dr Joseph Bell did the exact same thing when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle first saw deduction at work. Therefore, it stands to reason that one could learn to deduce to a great extent of accuracy, like Holmes. 

I think the learner would need to already have certain personality traits (e.g., curiosity and imagination) in order to have the ability to learn.  But yes, they could then be inspired by seeing some really good deductions.

2 hours ago, SLarratt said:

Is there a deduction thread? A game where users post pictures of desks or shoes or whatever and users compete for deduction points to see whom is the best deducer?

I'm fairly certain there are some threads of that general type around here somewhere, though they may be a bit dusty by now.  You might check the Comedy & Games area (here) for starters.  And please feel free to start new threads.

 

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8 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Is there a deduction thread? A game where users post pictures of desks or shoes or whatever and users compete for deduction points to see whom is the best deducer?

There is definitely one that VanBuren started, but it's been dormant quite a while ... but here it is if you'd like to take a look. A lot of the earlier ones, the pictures are missing, but keep going, you'll find some. And of course you can always add your own.

 

ETA: That's weird, I have no idea where that picture is from, it's not on the page I linked to, that's fer sure. Odd. Looks like a deduction is in order! :smile: 

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

I have no idea where that picture is from, it's not on the page I linked to

How very odd.   :blink:  Too bad we no longer have access to the codes, might be able to get a clue that way.

I started reading this thread and was having a bit of fun even though most of the pictures are missing, at least from the early pages.  Just based on the conversations, I guessed one answer before any of the people who had actually seen the picture!   :P   Then I noticed it's 81 pages long, and I don't want to stay up that late.

Anyhow, looks like a good concept, now gone a bit awry because VBS's photo-hosting site (Tinypic) no longer exists.  We could start using this thread again, but considering its length and the absence of most photos, I suggest that somebody start a new one.

@SLarratt-- would you care to have the honor?

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/5/2022 at 9:29 AM, Arcadia said:

There is definitely one that VanBuren started, but it's been dormant quite a while ... but here it is if you'd like to take a look. A lot of the earlier ones, the pictures are missing, but keep going, you'll find some. And of course you can always add your own.

 

ETA: That's weird, I have no idea where that picture is from, it's not on the page I linked to, that's fer sure. Odd. Looks like a deduction is in order! :smile: 


If I remember correctly, the picture was posted by SherlockCamper (where is she?), so it's a legit picture for the thread. 


I wouldn't be surprised if we see weird pictures, tinypic (the image hosting I used back then) used to mess up pictures sometimes (even for the time it was still a legit image host) and showed different (sometimes it could ruin my sparkling reputation) kind of picture.

Well it was fun until Arcadia and gang refused to play with me anymore. Chickens.

 

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10 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

SherlockCamper (where is she?)

Camper hasn't been around for a couple of years.  For a while before that, she was still showing up every now and then, but then she stopped altogether.  Hopefully she'll be back when/if Series 5 airs.

10 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

it was fun until Arcadia and gang refused to play with me anymore. Chickens.

You were just too much for them, VBS!

 

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On 2/26/2022 at 2:20 AM, Van Buren Supernova said:


If I remember correctly, the picture was posted by SherlockCamper (where is she?), so it's a legit picture for the thread. 


I wouldn't be surprised if we see weird pictures, tinypic (the image hosting I used back then) used to mess up pictures sometimes (even for the time it was still a legit image host) and showed different (sometimes it could ruin my sparkling reputation) kind of picture.

Well it was fun until Arcadia and gang refused to play with me anymore. Chickens.

 

You were too good for us, VBS, we couldn't keep up with your sparkling reputation. 😛

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  • 1 month later...

Hi, Zef -- welcome to Sherlock Forum!

I think there's a discussion of their ages around here somewhere, possibly even in a thread with an appropriate title (though I wouldn't bet on it!).  Mostly I think we've discussed the ages of the actors who've played those two characters, but there's also been some discussion of the book characters' ages.  I believe Watson is older by at least a few years, but you should be able to find more specific info by using the forum's Search function.

Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask questions if you can't find what you want.  Also please don't hesitate to comment on what you do find!

 

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7 hours ago, Zef Dvenport said:

People seem to agree Watson is older by 3-4 years....

That's hinted at in the very first story (Study in Scarlet), isn't it?  Watson seems to consider himself a world-weary old soldier, but describes Holmes as "young."  Their age difference couldn't have been all that much, considering that Watson hadn't actually been in the military very long (despite having been in foreign battles already), and Holmes must have been at least college age in order to have access to those labs.  But to someone in their 20's, 3-4 years is a significant percent of their life, so they're likely to consider it a significant age difference..

 

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5 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

That's hinted at in the very first story (Study in Scarlet), isn't it?  Watson seems to consider himself a world-weary old soldier, but describes Holmes as "young."  Their age difference couldn't have been all that much, considering that Watson hadn't actually been in the military very long (despite having been in foreign battles already), and Holmes must have been at least college age in order to have access to those labs.  But to someone in their 20's, 3-4 years is a significant percent of their life, so they're likely to consider it a significant age difference..

 

Yeah, I guess it all depends on perspective, and the age you find yourself in when in a situation like this. Over the age of 30, 3-4 years it's not as much as when you're in your early 20's.

Still, reading Watson talk about so many things that happened in his life while still being under the age of 30 is kind of fascinating and a little unsettling, specially considering how things were back then.

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