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Carol the Dabbler
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Oh, so that's where the "father had an affair" rumor started.  (That scene was in "The Great Game," by the way.)  I just checked Ariane DeVere's quasi-transcript (she mostly just paraphrases the commentaries), and unfortunately all she has is, "The scene was cut down slightly. There was originally a reference to the Holmes boys’ mutual strange childhood and the fact that Sherlock had rather spoiled the family atmosphere, but it was removed in the edit because there wasn’t time to include it."

 

Guess I'll have to pay more attention to that part of the commentary next time.

 

So can we consider that to be part of the Holmes boys' backstory?  Or is it just something that might have happened?

 

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Oh, so that's where the "father had an affair" rumor started.  (That scene was in "The Great Game," by the way.)  I just checked Ariane DeVere's quasi-transcript (she mostly just paraphrases the commentaries), and unfortunately all she has is, "The scene was cut down slightly. There was originally a reference to the Holmes boys’ mutual strange childhood and the fact that Sherlock had rather spoiled the family atmosphere, but it was removed in the edit because there wasn’t time to include it."

 

Guess I'll have to pay more attention to that part of the commentary next time.

 

So can we consider that to be part of the Holmes boys' backstory?  Or is it just something that might have happened?

 

I wouldn't consider it an official backstory, although Gatiss did not want Benedict to say too much about it.  So I guess we'll see- it wouldn't surprise me if it came up at some point.

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So can we consider that to be part of the Holmes boys' backstory?  Or is it just something that might have happened?

 

Canon is classically defined in these situations as whatever is in print (on screen) or anything the author (writer) says about the character.

 

As for Moriartys of one sort or another:

 

As I've said elsewhere, It is incomprehensible [to me] that the team of Moffat and Gatiss will not bring us James Moriarty's sibling.  The issue of how many Moriarty's exist and their correct names is as large a part of Sherlockiana as his drug use and even the deerstalker hat that never appears in the Canon.

 

This portion of the Wikipedia entry on Moriarty sums up the identity confusion:

The stories give a number of contradictory indications about the Professor's family. In his first appearance in "The Final Problem", Moriarty is only referred to as Professor Moriarty – no first name is mentioned. Watson does, however, refer to the name of another family member when he writes of "the recent letters in which Colonel James Moriarty defends the memory of his brother." Later, in "The Adventure of the Empty House" Holmes refers once to Moriarty as "Professor James Moriarty". This is the only time Moriarty is given a first name, and oddly, it is the same as that of his brother. In The Valley of Fear (written after the preceding two stories, but set earlier), Holmes says of Professor Moriarty: "He is unmarried. His older brother is a station master in the west of England."

 

In Kim Newman's derivative work Professor Moriarty: The Hound of the D'ubervilles, Newman takes the confusion and runs with it to humorous effect, stating that Professor James Moriarty has two brothers, Colonel James Moriarty and Station Master James Moriarty. As a result, all conversations and even the narration become amusing and confusing, until the very end where the sad story behind the triple names is told.

Then there is the fact that the killer cabbie never refers to Moriarty by a gender-specific pronoun, but once refers to Moriarty as "they'" as in "they're so much more than that."  (More than a man.)  Crawling back out on my limb, I predict we will encounter Professor Moriarty by the end of Series 3.

 

As for the cabbie's attitude, I see him as showing more and more contempt and hatred for Sherlock the further into the scene we get. 

 

But then, I was sure Dumbledore was alive so what do I know?  (Of course, I also thought Snape was working for Dumbledore as a double-agent against Voldemort because he'd been in love with Lily as a child,  so I'm not always wrong.)

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Oh, so that's where the "father had an affair" rumor started.  (That scene was in "The Great Game," by the way.)  I just checked Ariane DeVere's quasi-transcript (she mostly just paraphrases the commentaries), and unfortunately all she has is, "The scene was cut down slightly. There was originally a reference to the Holmes boys’ mutual strange childhood and the fact that Sherlock had rather spoiled the family atmosphere, but it was removed in the edit because there wasn’t time to include it."

 

Guess I'll have to pay more attention to that part of the commentary next time.

 

So can we consider that to be part of the Holmes boys' backstory?  Or is it just something that might have happened?

 

Here's the transcript:

 

Gatiss: We cut down this bit slightly, there was a reference to their mutual strained (?) childhood and the fact that you, Sherlock, had rather spoiled the family atmosphere.  It's gone for time, but in the end, I think that might be quite nice.  We don't want to give too much away about this.

 

BC: I discovered that my father was having uh um, can I say it?

 

Gatiss: You can say it.

 

BC: We might have it later?

 

Gatiss: Maybe.

 

BC: (something inaudible) Then I won't say it.

 

(laughter)

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I wouldn't consider it an official backstory, although Gatiss did not want Benedict to say too much about it. So I guess we'll see- it wouldn't surprise me if it came up at some point.

 

Right, they're probably thinking of using the idea later -- but may want to play with it a bit first, so don't want the fans becoming wedded to anything too specific at this point.

 

 

Canon is classically defined in these situations as whatever is in print (on screen) or anything the author (writer) says about the character.

 

So this might be called some sort of iffy quasi-canon, since the writers have clearly written something along those lines, but we don't know precisely what it is, and it may change some before we find out.

 

 

As I've said elsewhere, it is incomprehensible [to me] that the team of Moffat and Gatiss will not bring us James Moriarty's sibling.

 

I agree. I personally doubt that we'll see any additional Moriartys in Series 3, though, since they just came off a six-episode run with the first one, and they've said they'd really like to mix things up with some other villains (though yes, his siblings would technically be other villains). But in Series 4, who knows?

 

 

But then, I was sure Dumbledore was alive so what do I know?  (Of course, I also thought Snape was working for Dumbledore as a double-agent against Voldemort because he'd been in love with Lily as a child,  so I'm not always wrong.)

 

Oh good, I'm not the only one who thought Dumbledore wasn't really dead. Both the book and the movie were so ambiguous about it that I held out hope until, I believe, the scene where Voldemort ransacked his tomb.

 

I was also positive that Snape was really a good guy, but my reasoning was different. Alan Rickman plays him as an honorable man. And I knew that J K Rowling had spoken with a number of the principal individuals involved in the movies, to make sure they wouldn't accidentally do or say anything that would conflict with her yet-to-be-written stories. Therefore, I was reasonably certain that Rowling saw him as honorable.

 

Of course, as a double agent, he has to be double-crossing somebody. But in what little we see of him interacting with the Death Eaters, I don't get quite the same vibe. Wonderful performance!

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Oh so that's where the "father had an affair" rumor started..

 

That plot bunny has been in existence for decades but it would be cool if they brought this all forward into BBC Sherlock. It would go far in explaining the complex relationship between the brothers Holmes.

 

 

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So this might be called some sort of iffy quasi-canon, since the writers have clearly written something along those lines, but we don't know precisely what it is, and it may change some before we find out.

 

Right. So it's clue-ish rather than factish!

 

I agree. I personally doubt that we'll see any additional Moriartys in Series 3, though, since they just came off a six-episode run with the first one, and they've said they'd really like to mix things up with some other villains (though yes, his siblings would technically be other villains). But in Series 4, who knows?

I'm expecting it to be part of the cliffhanger of S3E3.

 

Oh good, I'm not the only one who thought Dumbledore wasn't really dead. Both the book and the movie were so ambiguous about it that I held out hope until, I believe, the scene where Voldemort ransacked his tomb.

 

I was also positive that Snape was really a good guy, but my reasoning was different. Alan Rickman plays him as an honorable man. And I knew that J K Rowling had spoken with a number of the principal individuals involved in the movies, to make sure they wouldn't accidentally do or say anything that would conflict with her yet-to-be-written stories. Therefore, I was reasonably certain that Rowling saw him as honorable.

 

Of course, as a double agent, he has to be double-crossing somebody. But in what little we see of him interacting with the Death Eaters, I don't get quite the same vibe. Wonderful performance!

 

We never considered the movies Canon, but - if you knew she had spoken to the actors, which I had not heard until now, then their portrayals would be allowed as supporting evidence.  I wish you'd been posting.  As for DD being dead, well, she purposely made it ambiguous, even when she was claiming she hadn't.  The part in the American edition where DD tells Draco he can hide him by making people people think he is dead, was removed from the British edition.  The American editor (not Rowling) said it was a mistake, they meant to take it out.  uh-HUH.

 

Anyway, I have been working for a while now combining two posts into one long How Sherlock Survived post.  Still finding bits of paragraphs and sentences out of place, but it's time to just post the thing, I suppose.

 

Off to make a thread.  In keeping with the topic of Series 3 filming, I leave a picture in a spoiler box.  I don't think it's much of a spoiler, it's just a great shot of Sherlock, has nothing to do with the fall.  But those who are sticklers should stay away or Carol remove it, if you think it's too spoilery.

 

 

 

setlock5crop.jpg

 

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That plot bunny has been in existence for decades but it would be cool if they brought this all forward into BBC Sherlock. It would go far in explaining the complex relationship between the brothers Holmes.

 

Agreed regarding the coolness! D'you have any idea when/where the bunny was hatched?

 

 

 

I personally doubt that we'll see any additional Moriartys in Series 3...

I'm expecting it to be part of the cliffhanger of S3E3.

 

 

Oh, yes, that'd be delightful!

 

 

We never considered the [Potter] movies Canon, but - if you knew [Rowling] had spoken to the actors, which I had not heard until now, then their portrayals would be allowed as supporting evidence....  The part in the American edition where DD tells Draco he can hide him by making people people think he is dead, was removed from the British edition.

 

We always bought the books in the original British, but even though I hadn't read that bit with Draco, I still wondered whether Dumbledore was really dead.  And good heavens, if I had seen that....

 

I don't offhand recall which people I had specifically heard that Rowling had talked with, other than one screenwriter who had written a scene where Dumbledore mentioned a girl he'd once been in love with (which he rewrote, after Rowling told him that she thought Dumbledore was gay). I believe that was mentioned on one of the DVDs. But I had heard, or at least had the impression, that she had also spoken with other key people, and considering that Snape is such a pivotal role, I thought it likely that she had spoken with Rickman. So my "evidence" wouldn't be admissible in court, but it was enough to make me reasonably certain that Rickman's portrayal was significant.

 

 

I leave a picture in a spoiler box.  I don't think it's much of a spoiler, it's just a great shot of Sherlock....

 

I agree with your judgement (and thanks for putting it in the box). People who have seen some of the other stuff that's available online might be able to make a little something of it, but then they would've seen that one already as well. Definitely a highly -- umm -- "Sherlocky" moment. I'm very fond of that one myself.

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D'you have any idea when/where that bunny was hatched?

It was mentioned as a possibility by the scholar's research for William S. Baring-Gould's Annotated volumes. It was used in a scene in the movie "Seven-Percent-Solution. A child Sherlock goes into his mother's bedroom to find her in bed with his maths tutor, no other then Professor Moriarty. His father storms in with a gun and shoots his wife in front of Sherlock. This causing Moriarty to become, in Sherlock's mind, his arch enemy.

 

In the movie, "Young Sherlock Holmes" there is a scene when a drugged Sherlock enters a crypt in a cemetery to see his mother weeping and his father very angry. It seems his father was having the affair and a guileless Sherlock deduced it and blurted it out upsetting "Mummy" and damaging the seemingly happy home of the Holmes Clan.

 

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And "everything is canon."  OK, thanks!  Somehow, it doesn't particularly strike me as Conan Doyle, but if two unrelated movies each had something of that sort, it's entirely possible that it originally derived from some brief comment in one of his stories.

 

If I get to vote, I'll go for the "Young Sherlock Holmes" version (as you have related it, since I don't believe I've ever seen the movie).  It seems to ring truer.

 

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Oops, I seem to have missed seeing this post by bborchar, quoting part of the commentary (a bit more than I'm repeating here):

 

 

 

Gatiss: We cut down this bit slightly, there was a reference to their mutual strained (?) childhood and the fact that you, Sherlock, had rather spoiled the family atmosphere.  It's gone for time, but in the end, I think that might be quite nice.  We don't want to give too much away about this.

 

BC: I discovered that my father was having uh um, can I say it?

 

Yes, it sure sounds like the "Young Sherlock Holmes" version.  Good.  I definitely think that one has better possibilities.

 

We were just watching a DVD called, I believe, "It's Elementary My Dear Watson: The Man Behind Sherlock Holmes," a sort of documentary about Watson (though perhaps more about Conan Doyle).  It mentioned the suspicion that Conan Doyle's mother had a long-lived affair with one of her lodgers.  Hmm.

 

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  It mentioned the suspicion that Conan Doyle's mother had a long-lived affair with one of her lodgers.  Hmm.

I can go with that. Much of Sherlock's life mirrors or at least, echos Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's. But I think for many Scholars that it was a deeper darker tragedy stemmed from two observations Holmes made to Watson and was probably the bases of the scene in Seven-Percent-Solution. One was while traveling on a train. They are passing estates and Sherlock says that while the homes looked regal often many dark deeds went undetected behind those walls.

 

Another comment was: Even the best of women cannot be fully trusted.

(......Since I don't believe I have ever seen the movie.)

If you haven't seen it yet, it is a true gem. The fight scene in the cemetery was a bit corny but all in all the movie is well acted and well produced.

 

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This is the movie that you're talking about, right?

 

51uAii2vPAL._AA160_.jpg

 

It's also available with this cover, but they look to have the same actual disc:

 

512RVPKY19L._AA160_.jpg

 

I like the first cover much better, and it's only half the price right now -- so I've added that to my wish list.  The movie is very well reviewed (other than Watson being written a bit weak, but unfortunately that seems to be par for the course in many Holmes adaptations).  No special features, but at least it's closed captioned.

 

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Yes, that is indeed the "Young Sherlock Holmes" movie I was referring to. Actually I didn't feel this Watson done to badly. I mean they are quite young and he is just trying being the level headed fellow Doyle wrote of him.  I like the first cover better as well. It shows off Elizabeth very much and she does feature strongly in young Sherlock's life.

 

I finally found the quote about the darker images used in "Seven-Percent-Solution". It's from the story "The Adventure of the Copper Beeches".

 

All over the countryside, away to the rolling hills around Aldershot, the little red and gray roofs of the farm-steadings peeped out from amid the light green of the new foliage.

          "Are they not few and beautiful?" I cried with all the enthusiam of a man fresh from the fogs of Baker Street.

 

           But Holmes shook his head gravely.

 

          "Do you know, Watson," said he, "that it is one of the curses of a mind with a turn like mine that I must look at everything with reference to my own special subject. You look at these scattered houses, and you are impressed by their beauty. I look at them, and the only thought which comes to me is a feeling of their isolation and of the impunity with which crime may be committed there."

 

         "Good heavens!" I cried. "Who would associate crime with these dear old homesteads?"

 

       "They always fill me with a certain horror. It is my belief, Watson, founded upon my experience, that the lowest and vilest alleys in London do not present a more dreadful record of sin than does the smiling and beautiful countryside."

 

 

 

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The reason I prefer the first cover is that it makes the movie look more interesting, like a genuine adaptation of the Holmes concept.

 

Thanks for the quote.  I does have a rather Holmesian sound to it.

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Yeah, it does make them look dorky and even if the reviews call Watson "weak" this kid is far and above the buffoon that Nigel Bruce had to portray him. When it first came out it was on VHS the cover of that was nice too.

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MAJOR spoilers today, but to be fair, Sue Vertue gave it away with her tweet (as did Gatiss).

 

 

 

Well, it looks like John and Mary got married today.  BC was seen wearing grey slacks, a white shirt, black coat with tails, grey vest, white gloves, a corsage, and a white tie (Martin is dressed that way, too); Amanda Abbington was wearing a white veil and a wedding gown (a very pretty one- no doubt about it, she's Mary).  Also the tweet by Vertue shows Sherlock's place setting with a wedding favor on the plate along with his name card.  I know some people are upset about this "change" in John and Sherlock's relationship, but I can't wait.  It's what happens in real life- people change and move on.  I just want to see if Sherlock behaves himself ;)

 

 

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You really think he could behave himself? I don't think it's a question of if he'll start acting up but of how :).

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You really think he could behave himself? I don't think it's a question of if he'll start acting up but of how :).

 

Nah, and truth be told, I really don't want him to XD 

 

 

The best man gives the toast at the reception, so I will REALLY look forward to that, lol.

 

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Ooooh, good point! That's gonna be epic.

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Sorry, been away for a couple of days on family business.

 

From Sherlockology:

 

 


Principal photography has begun today on the second episode of Sherlock Series Three.


Sherlock S3E2: The Sign of Three
Written by Stephen Thompson, Directed by Colm McCarthy


The episode will film over the next few weeks and will complete shooting next month. Following the wrap on The Sign of Three, a long scheduled break in production will occur to allow cast and crew to fulfil other commitments. Production will then resume later in the summer with the filming of Sherlock S3E3. The final episode in Series Three will be written by Steven Moffat, but the director is currently unannounced.


As previously noted, this is the first time the episodes in a series of Sherlock are being produced in episode order. Series One saw production begin with S1E3: The Great Game, followed by S1E2: The Blind Banker and S1E1: A Study in Pink, while Series Two commenced with S2E2: The Hounds of Baskerville, then S2E3: The Reichenbach Fall and S2E1: A Scandal in Belgravia.


And finally, as we said when S3E1: The Empty Hearse started production, these are our promises to our readers:


- We will never reveal ANY plot spoilers for the new series ahead of the broadcast of the new episodes unless they are officially sanctioned for release by the production team.

- We are not able to publicise any location filming that we may become aware of ahead of time due to issues of confidentiality, and the possibility of impacting the work of the cast and crew. Large numbers of people standing in a crowd have the potential to affect the filming, and we will be trying our best to ensure the crew has a minimum of disruption.

 

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