The private life of Sherlock Holmes (movie)

[sfmpco]

Dear sfmpco, back in those days, if you finished university, (bless both of them, as Sir Humphrey Appleby would say), you automatically got a Master's degree after two years if you had not become a Fellow. So, Sherlock is a graduate chemist in ACD canon and the Granada series, but he is old enough even in the modernised version to have got that automatic conferral just for having studied at Oxford, blast it for the rest of us red-brick graduates, who had to study hard for an MA or whatever!

 

This is just one of those language barriers between Americans and the British.  Here you finish a 4-year University degree and you are a graduate, but then to go further is to get a "graduate degree" and the next level is to get a Masters degree in 2-3 more years of study.  Beyond that is a PhD.  So that's why referring to Sherlock as a "graduate chemist" is confusing to me since I don't know if that means a completed 4-yr university degree or a masters degree.

[joanneta1]

In Oxford and Cambridge it meant finishing a four-year undergraduate course and then in two years it automatically became a Master's! And to think I had actually been accepted for Cambridge but the outlay for my parents would have been too much, student loan not an option, so stayed home and got on with a tutored MA in Brighton. Posh girls from Roedean just down the road can, of course, get friendly with posh young gentlemen coming straight from Eton, Harrow, Winchester, Marlborough and whatnot at both Cambridge and Oxford. So, he is a graduate chemist after four years at Oxford, is our favourite character! Really, what seems to have been thoroughly drilled into BC is the usage of sitting with your suit jacket unbuttoned, but you automatically button it as you stand up, it's almost a reflex with him, both in the series and in real life, and it always makes me smile when I see it.

Is there a "green with envy" emotiocon in this place?

[Lady Vengeance]

What a wonderful movie. It's no wonder that Mark Gatiss loves it so much.

 

 

[Joanhs]

Christopher Lee just died :/

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

A sad day indeed. The man was talented. He is going to be so greatly missed. RIP sir.

[sfmpco]

Ron Moody has also just died.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Sad day indeed.  Not something I was planning on telling my son for his birthday but did anyhow.  He was a brilliant antagonist (the only roles I've seen him in).

[softmachine]

downloaded this to watch over a few nights' night-shifts at work

 

the first half hour is delightful, pitched absolutely perfectly. Watson is hilarious. At first Stephens' Holmes seems a *bit* too Oscar Wilde-ish but you get used to it really quickly and actually it's perfect for a mix of the serious and the theatrical

 

and a touch of melancholy in the music too

[Pawse]

When Watson was dancing with the girls, and they were replaced by the male dancers, the look on his face...! Poor dude...! :lol:

[J.P.]

Okay, watched the abovementioned bad version on YT.

I found it amusing, but most probably because of the references to our Sherlock.

It's as if Mofftiss threw ACD, this movie and probably some others into a mixer and then put the pieces together.

I was surprised how Mrs Hudson resembled Una's version, especially the way she talked.

What I remember:

 

Holmes Watson making things up in his writing, the illustrator’s influence
Dust
Kinds of ash
Bored Sherlock
Excellent arches of the Ballerina
Cabbie

the word "immediately" in a note from Mycroft
Wiggins being Mycroft’s man < that's interesting
very angry Watson
It's 19 century!
morse signs.
pointy hats
TSOT references

And then the story of Holmes' fiancee who died of influenza just before their wedding

 

 

I wonder if there will be any canaries in S4 :D

 

PS Now I see where those "people will talk" references are coming from. Mofftiss have stretched them a bit though ;)

[Carol the Dabbler]

Regardung your spoiler list: Wow -- I'll have to watch the movie again someday, now that I have more Sherlock episodes to compare it with.

 

Apparently [the film as released] wasn't entirely Billy Wilder's cup of tea either, since his cut of the movie was reportedly hacked to bits by the studio.

I reread the Wikipedia article linked to there, and one of the deleted scenes reminds me (in a way) of Anderson's "Jack the Ripper" stunt.

[Arcadia]

I see what you mean, I need to watch it again too, now. I remember being fitfully amused and surprised at how melancholy it was, but nothing else.

[Fantasy Lover]

Didn't Billy Wilder said that he regretted not being able to make Sherlock openly gays or something?

[J.P.]

Yes. It was quoted in an unauthorized biography, writen by a gay man. I don't say the author was making things up, but he might not te 100% neutral. You know how elastic information can be.

My main concern about this quote is: would it be possible at all, to make a gay film in 1970 and have it distributed? I have doubts about it. So maybe Wilder was joking or sarcastic.

 

Okay, here is a link to the article about TPLOSH that fueled JL, and which Mark called "A garbled mistranslation of what I said"

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/nov/07/mark-gatiss-sherlock-holmes

 

As someone who's coworker had a whole interview in a newspaper, although he hadn't said any single word to anyone, or have had a stupid school performance filled with a whole load of worl-shaking revelations by a jurnalist - I do believe Mark.

[J.P.]

BTW, I recommend watching TPLOSH. Even if you don't like it, it's fun to see the connections.

[Boton]

I share your concerns that information can be, as you so aptly put it, elastic.  It may well be that Wilder wanted to make a Holmes/Watson film, and that definitely wasn't possible explicitly in the 1970s to the best of my knowledge.  That doesn't mean that he did make one, albeit one deeply closeted.  And it doesn't mean that even if Moftiss lifted lots of inspiration from PLOSH, that they lifted that wish or intention along with it.

 

That said, I haven't seen PLOSH, and it is on my list once the dust settles after season 4!

[HerlockSholmes]

I’m looking forward to this one. It was advertised in The District Messenger which is the newsletter of The Sherlock Holmes Society Of London.

 

Eureka Entertainment is about to release The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes on Blu-ray, for the first time in the UK. The release date is 22 January 2018 and will be available for £15.99. According to the press release, features will include: 'Glorious 1080p presentation; Uncompressed PCM soundtrack; Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard-of-hearing; A new video interview with film scholar Neil Sinyard; The Missing Cases (50 mins): A presentation of the film's deleted sequences, using script excerpts, production stills and surviving film footage. Includes the film’s Original Prologue, The Curious Case of the Upside Down Room, The Adventure of the Dumbfounded Detective and The Dreadful Business of the Naked Honeymooners; Deleted Epilogue Scene (audio only); Christopher Lee: Mr. Holmes, Mr. Wilder - an archival interview with Christopher Lee about his experience working with Billy Wilder; Interview with editor Ernest Walter; Original theatrical trailer; PLUS: A collectors booklet featuring a new essay by Philip Kemp; the words of Billy Wilder; and rare archival imagery.'

 

If anyone hasn’t seen this film (Mark Gatiss’s favourite) I can’t recommend it highly enough. A great story, some great comic moments and an excellent Holmes in Robert Stephens who was a good friend of Jeremy Brett (he actually advised Brett against playing Holmes as he thought the role would take him over. And for a time it did!) You also get Christopher Lee as a very stern Mycroft.

[Hikari]

I’m looking forward to this one. It was advertised in The District Messenger which is the newsletter of The Sherlock Holmes Society Of London.

 

Eureka Entertainment is about to release The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes on Blu-ray, for the first time in the UK. The release date is 22 January 2018 and will be available for £15.99. According to the press release, features will include: 'Glorious 1080p presentation; Uncompressed PCM soundtrack; Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard-of-hearing; A new video interview with film scholar Neil Sinyard; The Missing Cases (50 mins): A presentation of the film's deleted sequences, using script excerpts, production stills and surviving film footage. Includes the film’s Original Prologue, The Curious Case of the Upside Down Room, The Adventure of the Dumbfounded Detective and The Dreadful Business of the Naked Honeymooners; Deleted Epilogue Scene (audio only); Christopher Lee: Mr. Holmes, Mr. Wilder - an archival interview with Christopher Lee about his experience working with Billy Wilder; Interview with editor Ernest Walter; Original theatrical trailer; PLUS: A collectors booklet featuring a new essay by Philip Kemp; the words of Billy Wilder; and rare archival imagery.'

 

If anyone hasn’t seen this film (Mark Gatiss’s favourite) I can’t recommend it highly enough. A great story, some great comic moments and an excellent Holmes in Robert Stephens who was a good friend of Jeremy Brett (he actually advised Brett against playing Holmes as he thought the role would take him over. And for a time it did!) You also get Christopher Lee as a very stern Mycroft.

 

Evidently Robert Stephens knew whatof he was advising Mr. Brett . . I just read recently that he had something of a nervous breakdown and contemplated suicide while making TPLOSH.  Not sure if it was down to his director being a martinet, his Method portrayal of Holmes's drug addiction and homoerotic impulses or what, but I found that an interesting factoid.  For those of delicate mental constitution, playing the Great Detective seems to make one unbalanced!  What does this mean?  Perhaps those actors who portray Jesus Christ struggle with the same gargantuan burdens of expectation that they also be Perfect?

 

[HerlockSholmes]

I’m looking forward to this one. It was advertised in The District Messenger which is the newsletter of The Sherlock Holmes Society Of London.

 

Eureka Entertainment is about to release The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes on Blu-ray, for the first time in the UK. The release date is 22 January 2018 and will be available for £15.99. According to the press release, features will include: 'Glorious 1080p presentation; Uncompressed PCM soundtrack; Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard-of-hearing; A new video interview with film scholar Neil Sinyard; The Missing Cases (50 mins): A presentation of the film's deleted sequences, using script excerpts, production stills and surviving film footage. Includes the film’s Original Prologue, The Curious Case of the Upside Down Room, The Adventure of the Dumbfounded Detective and The Dreadful Business of the Naked Honeymooners; Deleted Epilogue Scene (audio only); Christopher Lee: Mr. Holmes, Mr. Wilder - an archival interview with Christopher Lee about his experience working with Billy Wilder; Interview with editor Ernest Walter; Original theatrical trailer; PLUS: A collectors booklet featuring a new essay by Philip Kemp; the words of Billy Wilder; and rare archival imagery.'

 

If anyone hasn’t seen this film (Mark Gatiss’s favourite) I can’t recommend it highly enough. A great story, some great comic moments and an excellent Holmes in Robert Stephens who was a good friend of Jeremy Brett (he actually advised Brett against playing Holmes as he thought the role would take him over. And for a time it did!) You also get Christopher Lee as a very stern Mycroft.

Evidently Robert Stephens knew whatof he was advising Mr. Brett . . I just read recently that he had something of a nervous breakdown and contemplated suicide while making TPLOSH. Not sure if it was down to his director being a martinet, his Method portrayal of Holmes's drug addiction and homoerotic impulses or what, but I found that an interesting factoid. For those of delicate mental constitution, playing the Great Detective seems to make one unbalanced! What does this mean? Perhaps those actors who portray Jesus Christ struggle with the same gargantuan burdens of expectation that they also be Perfect?

I’m unsure why playing Holmes should have such an effect on some actors. Of course Brett had other illnesses too but I suppose it’s partly due to the weight of expectations. An actor taking on the role would undoubtedly feel the weight of previous portrayals. Until Brett most would have considered Rathbone or possibly Wilmer to have been in some ways ‘definitive’ performance. Brett did want the series to be definitive and his own performance needed to live up to that so he had a heavy weight on his shoulders. Peter Cushing, on the other hand, was more of a Holmes fan than Brett and was also an absolute perfectionist on set (much to the frustration of directors) but he never experienced any ‘issues.’ Rathbone merely tired of being seen as Holmes rather than Basil Rathbone the actor. Neither Wilmer or Wontner suffered any adverse effects from playing the detective. Actors know that Holmes is the most beloved fictional character ever and that there are a legion of fans across the world ready to nitpick and pull apart any performance. Do actors playing Hamlet suffer in the same way?

[HerlockSholmes]

What did I do wrong? My response to Hikari has appeared in the quote box. Oops.

[Hikari]

What did I do wrong? My response to Hikari has appeared in the quote box. Oops.

 

Your pesky cursor was in the quote box when you wrote.  I did the same thing and Carol fixed it for me.  She should e along shortly.  :)

 

Holmes and Hamlet is an interesting comparison.  We've had a lot more Hamlets, I suppose, seeing as he's been around a lot longer.  Even so, Holmes remains the MOST portrayed fictional character in modern history.  I read the figure 250--not sure if that's actors or screen/stage treatments.  Both Hamlet and SH have defining characteristics of physicality and manner in the popular mind . . but apart from favoring a lot of black and a mopey expression, Hamlet has more leeway in his portrayal, I think.  He's transcended time periods, nationalities, hair colors, wardrobes and accessories.  Sherlock has only more recently done this, with the BBC show.  (Both Sherlock and Hamlet have a pet skull.  I saw a pic of Benedict holding Skully in a pose like he was doing the 'Alas, poor Yorick!' speech.)

 

We should study up on how many actors who have portrayed Hamlet have also portrayed Sherlock Holmes.  I think Benedict is probably in a small club there . . Mr. Brett and possibly Mr. Stephens?  Mr. Williamson certainly.  Jude Law got close. I bet he is the ONLY actor to have portrayed both Hamlet and Dr. Watson.

 

[HerlockSholmes]

Me and my careless cursor!

 

I’ve just found this...

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&ei=51dFWsSxHsnCwQLLxJbIAQ&q=jeremy+brett+hamlet&oq=jeremy+brett+hamlet&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..0.7671.14359.0.15557.21.20.1.5.5.0.119.1715.16j3.19.0....0...1c..64.mobile-gws-serp..1.20.1452.3..35i39k1j0i131k1j0i67k1j0i131i67k1j0i20i263k1j0i22i30k1.99.80TaXN56SuU#imgrc=VEyLnNao3bnVwM:

 

Arthur Wontner played Laertes on stage and Polonius in a TV movie but no main character as far as I can see.

 

Then there’s ...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/apr/01/sherlock-andrew-scott-moriarty-play-hamlet-almeida-theatre-cumberbatch

 

I can’t see any mention of Robert Stephens actually playing Hamlet but he played in Hamlet.

 

Sir John Gielgud, who playedHolmes on radio did.....

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&ei=DlpFWreANczPwAK-ooDIAQ&q=john+geilgud+hamlet&oq=john+geilgud+hamlet&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..0i13k1j0i22i30k1.12415.17633.0.18065.21.20.1.5.5.0.123.1869.13j6.19.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..1.20.1567.3..0j46j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i131i67k1j0i131k1j0i46k1j0i20i263k1j0i10k1.79.hTFeV76txDM#imgrc=EE3Qw89vOPk2GM:

 

Found one. John Neville, a very good Holmes in my opinion in A Study In Terror...

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=john+neville+hamlet&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik1v7nzK3YAhXOJFAKHeHyByEQ_AUIESgB&biw=1024&bih=1251#imgrc=zaBEIDbYPD6CZM:

 

Another radio Holmes, Orson Welles, unsurprisingly played Hamlet.

 

You’re probably right about Jude Law Hikari.

 

Unless my brain’s not working (and there’s every chance of that) I can only think of one actor that I know has played both Holmes and Watson?

[Carol the Dabbler]

What did I do wrong? My response to Hikari has appeared in the quote box. Oops.

 

Your pesky cursor was in the quote box when you wrote.  I did the same thing and Carol fixed it for me.  She should e along shortly.

 

[....] I read the figure 250--not sure if that's actors or screen/stage treatments. [....]

 

We should study up on how many actors who have portrayed Hamlet have also portrayed Sherlock Holmes.  I think Benedict is probably in a small club there . . . .

 

Yup, this forum has a touchy cursor!  Gotta check to be sure where it is before you start typing.

 

Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it, and meanwhile if you can't get things straightened out and you're using the Full forum interface, click the Report button (it's to the left of the Quote buttons), or if you're on a different interface (e.g., one of the mobile themes, or Tapatalk), you can create another post asking if someone would please click the button for you.  Or just wait for a staff member to notice.  :D

 

I've seen a figure in the 70's for the number of actors to play Sherlock Holmes, but of course the exact number depends on how you define "Sherlock Holmes."  For example, do you count House and/or Monk (neither of whom are actually named Sherlock Holmes?  Do you count only English-language performances, or do you include, for example, the Russian and Korean series?  Do you count actors who have played characters who played Sherlock (e.g., Brent Spiner as Lt. Data in Star Trek Next Generation)?  Do you include members of other species, such as the Great Mouse Detective?  Do you count only movies and/or television, and/or do you include stage performances?

 

As for how many Hamlets have also played Sherlock -- doesn't every actor want to play Hamlet?  And don't a good many of them succeed eventually?  (Subject of course to the same questions as in the previous paragraph.)

[Hikari]

 

What did I do wrong? My response to Hikari has appeared in the quote box. Oops.

 

Your pesky cursor was in the quote box when you wrote.  I did the same thing and Carol fixed it for me.  She should e along shortly.

 

[....] I read the figure 250--not sure if that's actors or screen/stage treatments. [....]

 

We should study up on how many actors who have portrayed Hamlet have also portrayed Sherlock Holmes.  I think Benedict is probably in a small club there . . . .

 

Yup, this forum has a touchy cursor!  Gotta check to be sure where it is before you start typing.

 

Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it, and meanwhile if you can't get things straightened out and you're using the Full forum interface, click the Report button (it's to the left of the Quote buttons), or if you're on a different interface (e.g., one of the mobile themes, or Tapatalk), you can create another post asking if someone would please click the button for you.  Or just wait for a staff member to notice.  :D

 

I've seen a figure in the 70's for the number of actors to play Sherlock Holmes, but of course the exact number depends on how you define "Sherlock Holmes."  For example, do you count House and/or Monk (neither of whom are actually named Sherlock Holmes?  Do you count only English-language performances, or do you include, for example, the Russian and Korean series?  Do you count actors who have played characters who played Sherlock (e.g., Brent Spiner as Lt. Data in Star Trek Next Generation)?  Do you include members of other species, such as the Great Mouse Detective?  Do you count only movies and/or television, and/or do you include stage performances?

 

As for how many Hamlets have also played Sherlock -- doesn't every actor want to play Hamlet?  And don't a good many of them succeed eventually?  (Subject of course to the same questions as in the previous paragraph.)

 

 

I'd say that playing Hamlet is an aspirational role for a young thespian, yes.  It's probably the best-known lead role in Shakespeare.  Get cast as Hamlet, and you've Made It as an actor, artistically speaking.  Playing Hamlet does not pay as well as playing Sherlock Holmes (a much smaller cadre, but better remunerated) unless one is Sir Kenneth Branagh or Mel Gibson or Lawerence Olivier.  Even Ben or Jude's sold-out West End runs as the Melancholy Dane only lasted 4 or 5 weeks and there are a limited number of bums to put in the finite number of house seats for those performances.  Play Sherlock Holmes, and your reach is global.

 

This coming spring, my local troupe of amateur thespians will treat us to Ken Ludwig's 'Baskerville'--a comedic treatment of the most famous canine caper ever created.  I'm wondering which of our actors, most of whom I am familiar with by now will be tapped to wear the deerstalker--and who will be Watson.  I'd venture to say that playing Sherlock Holmes is an aspiration near and dear to even more young men's hearts (and some young women, too--when I was a kid I wanted to be Robin Hood, not Marian.  Marian was dull)--than playing Hamlet is.  Some lucky blokes get to do both.  How many is a 'good many'?  The number of successful candidates for either role must be miniscule compared to the numbers of guys/girls who would *want* that honor.

 

[HerlockSholmes]

A quick Herlockian review of the new Blu-ray version of The Private Life Of Sherlock Holmes.

 

Firstly, for anyone that hasn’t seen it yet, it’s a wonderful movie. Like Mark Gatiss it’s my favourite. For the Holmes nerd it has great extras which include three interviews (a film historian, the editor of the movie and Christopher Lee. But best of all we get the first sighting of the ‘missing’ footage. The movie was originally intended to be well over three hours long but was eventually cut drastically.

 

We get stills and the script of an opening scene where Watson’s grandson arrives at Cox and Co to open his grandfathers box. The bank manager is also a member of The Sherlock Holmes Society Of London And has delayed his retirement for this day. He ends up trying on the deerstalker.

 

Then we get stills of a scene on a train with Holmes and Watson in a carriage when a man rushes in. Holmes deduces that he’s recently jumped out of a window after being shot at by his lovers husband. We get the voices with this one which are great to hear.

 

Then there is the case of The Upside Down Room. Holmes and Watson are called to a room with a corpse but everything in the room is upside down. Bed and chairs on the ceiling etc. Holmes deduces that it was all set up by Watson. Watson wanted to provide a distraction for Holmes from cocaine. Holmes says something like “well you had me fooled for all of ten minutes.”

 

Finally, and best of all, there’s footage with subtitles of a very funny scene on a ship where Holmes lets Watson try and solve a murder.

 

Well worth getting. Brilliant stuff. And if you were just thinking of getting the movie get this version. An absolute must