STCooper1

Yes, I suppose it was. And I found it so satisfying. Merry Christmas indeed. While I can understand those who cheer on seeing Moriarty alive and well (even though I myself am appalled at what I consider a very bad artistic choice there), I whole-heartedly hope Magnussen is dead for good and I cannot imagine anyone being happy at his revival. He was seriously vile. Sure hope you can re-image that, as I'd LOVE to see Magnussen still alive as he was my favorite antagonist in the show. Way better than the Joker rip-off Moriarty was as far as I'm concerned.

You're wrong. Holmes murdering him wasn't victory, that was defeat. Magnussen outfoxed him, and then when Holmes murdered him, he also attained the morale high ground, making him the better man. Holmes sunk himself even lower than Magnussen was to get rid of him, and that is not winning. Thats utter defeat. Though you didn't quote me, I have same view with Boton. I can't speak for others, If 'wrong' merely means having different POV or opinion, then I don't mind jumping on the 'wrong' bandwagon because of cos I can't be 'right' all the time. Whatever. Sherlock lost to Magnussen ever step of the way, and murdering him only made him morally inferior to the bullying blackmailer.

You're wrong. Holmes murdering him wasn't victory, that was defeat. Magnussen outfoxed him, and then when Holmes murdered him, he also attained the morale high ground, making him the better man. Holmes sunk himself even lower than Magnussen was to get rid of him, and that is not winning. Thats utter defeat. I think this and "is Mary evil?" are topics that can be discussed for eternity and we'll never reach any kind of general agreement... Then of course, we're not looking to agree, are we. We're having fun exchanging our different views. So I'm happy to plunge in once more and add my bit: Yes, I agree that when he had to resort to shooting him in the head, Sherlock in effect lost The Game against Magnussen. But I protest the idea that this incident makes Magnussen morally superior. Magnussen ruined scores of lives for no good reason and never assumed responsibility for anything. Sherlock took one life only after he saw no other alternative, he did it in front of witnesses, taking care not to implicate anybody else and he assumed full responsibility the moment it was done. I cannot imagine a morally more reprehensible character than Magnussen, anyway. And it's not as if he only targeted people who had done wrong, as is often stated. Some of his "pressure points" included "disabled daughter", "husband" and, in the case of Sherlock Holmes, "best friend". How is it wrong to love people? And how is it in any way right to exploit that love to gain power? Also, there is not a blameless person on this planet, I guarantee you. If Magnussen was real and he needed to destroy me for some selfish reason, he could do so in a few days. And he wasn't doing it because he was trying to be some kind of avenger who unveils hidden crimes and brings the perpetrators to justice outside the law. He was just a power-hungry "businessman" working for his own advantage, and he didn't care a fig whether the corpses he walked over were guilty or innocent. I must admit I love the scene where Sherlock shoots Magnussen. I think it is tragically heroic. I never said Magnussen did no wrong, nor did I say its wrong to love people. He was extremely arrogant and selfish, and felt no remorse for any of the lives he ruined. He was a joyous bully, but a not a murderer. Its not his fault that anybody is dead. Like Lord Smallwood for example. Magnussen never revealed that information about him, or we would have seen so in the episode. He killed himself for no reason at all, just because Magnussen found out about one of his past indignities, which proved him a pathetic, stupid weakling. Who does that? Sherlock committing high treason and murder because of his hate of Magnussen was worse than what Magnussen ever did.

You're wrong. Holmes murdering him wasn't victory, that was defeat. Magnussen outfoxed him, and then when Holmes murdered him, he also attained the morale high ground, making him the better man. Holmes sunk himself even lower than Magnussen was to get rid of him, and that is not winning. Thats utter defeat.

How could John smuggle a gun into Magnussen's house? because his guards slipped up and forgot to do their jobs before escorting them in to him. Why did they forget? Plot convenience. As an adaptation of Milverton, Magnussen was always bound to die, for the same reason Milverton did; he was too much for Sherlock Holmes. They were both too powerful, wealthy, and intelligent to be defeated by Holmes' methods, which is why the story ends with their murder instead of their defeat.

Magnussen didn't allow Sherlock and John to bring a gun inside his house. He put two of his guards out front to search them and escort them in, and they forgot to do their jobs and make sure no weapons made it inside. To be honest, I enjoyed seeing Sherlock utterly defeated at his own game. It was well overdue and brought a much needed sense of realism into the series. However, you're wrong to say Sherlock resorting to murder was victory since that gave Magnussen moral victory on top of utter intellectual victory. When Sherlock murdered Magnussen and proved him the better man, I lost all respect for him. Despite being my second favorite episode in the series, His Last Vow had a talent for making me lose respect for characters, as I had lost all respect for both Sherlock and Mary by the end of the episode.

No. Mary is not a murderer. She, like John, is a killer. As was made explicit in the "flicking" scene, CAM had threatened to have men kill her. As such, her action was self-defense, not murder. Wrong, Mary is a murderer. She is a psychotic assassin who murdered many people in the past, both for the CIA and as a freelance murderer. Magnussen did absolutely nothing to deserve to be murdered by her. All he did was discover the truth about her past, and reveal his knowledge of it to Mary. He never blackmailed her with the knowledge that we see, so her being willing to murder him that night was completely unjustified and in no way self-defense. Also, Magnussen never threatened Mary's life when he was flicking Johns face, he just used the fact that he could reveal her location to the people that wanted her dead as a scare tactic to force John to let him flick his face. He never would have gone through with the act, as doing so would cost him everything he'd worked for throughout the season if something were to happen to Mary. He wouldn't just lose her if he exposed her to the public or to her enemies, he'd lose John, Sherlock, and Mycroft right along with her. Magnussen knows that, and would therefore have done the opposite if anything, and protected her, as without her, he can't own Mycroft and therefore the entire British government.

You know who I was really angry with? Lady Smallwood!!! She's the one who approached Sherlock and put him on the case, and when he did what she didn't have the balls to do, she exiles him? Why not pull strings to have him pardoned for doing an honorable service to their country? Between her and Mycroft, whom they keep saying basically runs the country, why could they not make that happen? Sherlock murdered a legally innocent man who hadn't killed anyone in his life or done anything to deserve to die. As a blackmailer(legally speaking, you can't even call him this as he doesn't make threats, just statements), Magnussen was nothing but a bully and deserved imprisonment at worst, but not to be murdered. Sherlock's murder of him was completely unnecessary and he deserved to be sent to prison for life or exiled to death for it. Mycroft not doing anything to help him other than ensure the police don't kill Sherlock for his wicked crimes was honorable and proper. He and Lady Smallwood's actions were due justice and law. Yes, that was the dumbest move of all time. So heavy handed, I had to laugh in retrospect. It was like all the movies where some idiot finds out some damning information about someone else, and they approach them with it, and they're like "I hope you understand I have to report this..." and the other person is like,"Yes, of course, but first, tell me, did you tell anyone else that you found this information?" "No, I came straight to you..." AND NOW YOU DIE HORRIBLY. He was an idiot in the end. Interesting side note: I was reading the Q&A with Mofftiss earlier today, and someone asked if they had spent a long time deliberating on having Sherlock kill Magnussen. They said not really because they had always assumed that, in the original ACD story of Milverton, Holmes had actually been the one to kill him, and Watson had lied in his memoirs to protect him. I don't buy that, but it's an interesting theory nonetheless. Some people were talking about Mary dying in season 4... I feel like she pretty much has to, for many reason, not least of which because Now, this is Moffat at the helm, and I know he can certainly milk it and keep a character (especially one of his amazing, larger than life, super hero women who are capable of shooting the freaking heads on a quarter flipping through the air in the dark ) around well past her welcome. So I don't want to hold my breath and asphyxiate. BUT--- I don't really see them leaving John and Sherlock to raise a kid on their own, so either she has to die before the baby is born (which is soon, and that's assuming season 4 picks up immediately where season 3 ended), or she and the baby have to die together (although, judging by how things are going, they'll appear to be in a car that explodes while an ice cream truck drives past suspiciously slowly and blocks the view of the car moments before it explodes). Now, I really hope they won't go so far as to give John a flesh and blood child to hold in his arms just to turn around and kill it, because that would be taking it too far in my opinion. So I am holding out hope that either Mary dies in childbirth in season 4, or she sacrifices herself before the baby is born. Or she gets caught in the crossfire in whatever dangerous situation John and Sherlock get caught up in in season 4. Or they could just go the canon route, and have season 4 pick up with her having died in the interim. But I doubt it. I was actually thinking today how poetic (and yet sad for John) it would be if one of the loved ones of one of her victims came out of nowhere and killed her. Like I said, it's a dumb move for a woman in hiding to marry a pseudo celebrity who is closely connected to a man with an "international reputation". Anyone could see her picture and come looking for her. Magnussen said there were lots of people who hated her, who were close to the people she killed. Wouldn't it be a knife's edge for John if she were killed by, say, the older sister of a young man Mary assassinated? Because on the one hand, you want to hate and kill this person who killed your wife and unborn child, but on the other, how do you condemn someone for avenging the death of their own family? What an emotional mine field that would be!

Actually, Mary's intent to murder Magnussen was not justified in any way. He never tried to blackmail her or anything. All he did was let her know he knew her secrets, and for his knowledge of them she planned to murder him. That in completely unjustified.

Magnussen had the hard copies of his black knowledge elsewhere and confirmed he could send for something anytime he wanted to right after he got done with his mind palace display. Watson says "So there are no documents then. You don't actually have anything here" and Magnussen replies "Well, sometimes I send out for something if I really need it, but mostly I just remember it all." So there is actually no proof that he didn't have a failsafe in place, especially since he confirmed in that sentence that there were others besides him who knew where to find the information. And it wasn't stupid to reveal his mind palace to Sherlock since he was under Mycroft's protection and nothing would come from that end, as Mycroft considered him a government asset and necessary evil, and Magnussen thought his guards had done the job he hired them for of searching Watson and Holmes for weapons before bringing them inside his house. He didn't know a gun made it inside, and therefore that he could be in any danger. Thats why he dismissed the guards after they brought Sherlock and John in to him. His mind palace was clever, as he outfoxed Holmes with it.