gerry

Sherlock puts himself in dangerous situations all the time (moriarty, CAM, cabbie poison pill, narcotic drugs, etc). How is Mary any different? In all of those situations mycroft doesn’t try to stop Sherlock, he just monitors the situation and helps where he can because he loves his brother but is not a bleeding heart. i agree that mycroft could incarcerate Mary but I can’t think why he would if it’s not what Sherlock wants and it wouldn’t be consistent with how mycroft deals with previous threats to Sherlock.

I’m not sure it has anything to do with faith in Mycroft. What do you expect Mycroft to do that wouldn’t alienate Sherlock since it was likely Sherlock who invited John and Mary? He can’t arrest Mary for shooting SHerlock unless Sherlock identifies her as the shooter and Sherlock won’t do that if John wants to stay married to Mary. Same thing if Mycroft tried to get her incarcerated for her assassin past. You think Sherlock wouldn’t know Mycroft was responsible and if he was rude or obviously unhappy with Mary in front of their parents he’d only be drawing attention to sonmething that SHerlock obviously doesn’t care about so why should Mycroft?

It was likely Sherlock who invited John and Mary to Christmas at the family home though so what is Mycroft supposed to do about it except be polite to them? It’s Sherlock’s choice who his friends are and I doubt Sherlock would let Mycroft affect who he decides them to be. I took it as Mycroft accepting Sherlock’s choice which I think he does often because it’s not like Sherlock really listens to anyone anyway. Sherlock does what Sherlock wants to do.

Doesn’t Sherlock prey on his friends’ weaknesses so he can manipulate them? I don’t think that personality trait of his is isolated to bad guys. He manipulates John at the end of TEH, Molly multiple times and even Janine. Isn’t that why Sherlock can relate on some level to the Adlers and other bad guys of the world since he practices the same techniques? He even gloats about manipulating his friends in TLD at the beginning at that therapist’s house.

Why should either of them be grateful or respect her? Given the state of John’s marriage at the time of her death, why would he respect the person that lied to him and want to tribute her? He was so disillusioned at the time he was texting another woman. It seems like the writers were elevating her to a status in death that she didn’t achieve in life or more like the writers wanting to give a tribute to the actress but I’m not sure why the character deserves it.

Why does an assassin for hire who lied about who she was until after she was caught warrant a tribute? I’ll never understand why you’re supposed to view her as a some sort of patron saint. Her stay on the show didn’t warrant that for me.

I still don’t think it needed a narrator. Then again I didn’t like the montage.

The case is the only thing that held my interest in this episode but then again real life weddings bore me too.

Sherlock has at the very least decided that romantic relationships are not for him going by what he said to John in TLD. Now whether that’s because he considers himself “too good” for them in a Mycroft goldfish analogy way or not is debatable but I can’t see him engaging in frivolous flirting if that’s how he feels about relationships. What would be the point? I do disagree that Sherlock doesn’t believe in at least a part of the goldfish mentality. He’s at the very least an intellectual snob, just maybe not as obvious as Mycroft. I wasn’t sure how Grissom/Sara was going to go and I was actually surprised the writers kept it going with WP/JF coming and going from the show over the years. They must have had a following of some kind. CSI did the dominatrix character in a much more tasteful way than this show did and I thought Grissom’s friendship with Lady HEather was much more interesting than Sherlock’s whatever with Irene. Sara was jealous of that friendship all the way to series finale movie they did. I’m sure a large part of that is the actress not being very good. That show survived based on the charm of the characters, not writing depth or acting ability. And from what I hear there was quite of bit of BTS drama on that set.

I agree. The best man speech was entirely too long too.

Abby and Gibbs shippers? Yuck! I didn’t care for Ziva but at least shipping her with Tony made sense even as a non shipper who didn’t care. I will never understand shipping.

Grissom was a brilliant scientist but he wasn’t an anti-hero. He would be so lost in his mind, his experiments, or bugs, or the cases, you wondered if he had any interest in people other than the psychology of why they committed the crime. I loved Grissom though. The show wasn’t the same when he left. You mean Gibbs and Abby on NCIS? They’ve always had a father/daughter type love between them IMO. Mark Harmon though... he still looks good with the grey! Some men can pull that off and not look old. He’s one of them. Ironically I’m losing interest in NCIS. I miss Tony and Abby is leaving too so the only original character left will be Gibbs.

This is a pet peeve of mine as well. Some shows are much worse than others though. Catherine on CSI and Beckett on Castle are ones that come to mind as classic offenders. Speaking of that article and CSI, that’s the only American show I can think of a with a Sherlolly shipper type of appeal in Grissom/Sara. I definitely don’t think the plain girl getting an extraordinary anti-hero man is common in American TV. Then again I don’t think anti-hero’s are that common in American TV. Usually it’s the classic good vs. evil, at least in crime shows. ok, we’ll have to agree to disagree then. It was less overt in TSOT but was still there IMO. Whether you call it flirting or not, his interactions with her didn’t strike me as real Sherlock. I’m not sure why matters to you or anyone else whether he planned it before meeting her. It seems like the idea bothers you but given what he did in the next episode, whatever connection you thought you saw between them, didn’t it have to be quite superficial if he was capable of HLV with no remorse?

I don’t know what to tell you. I didn’t see much difference between his interactions with her in either episode except the location and what they were talking about. I thought both episodes with him flirting/interactions was playacting and knew from TSOT that it wasn’t real and he was playing her somehow. It was confirmed with the HLV hospital scene and the way he talked to John about her that he couldn’t care less about her. If you’re a Janine fan, I can see why you’d see it your way but I just didn’t. Frankly I can’t see Sherlock as himself flirting. You know when he’s being real. He didn’t really even flirt with Irene when she was quite overt with her own and you could easily interpret him as being attracted to her.

Yup which is why I always thought he knew exactly who Janine and CAM were before he met her at the wedding. How could he not if he did backgrounds on all the wedding guests? And also fits with Sherlock’s “convenient to meet her at the wedding” line, meaning it gave him a perfect way in with Janine.

Yes but this is why I suspected from the very beginning that he was up to something since he would never lower himself to flirting behavior with the goldfish unless he had an objective or a case. He did an extremely mild case of the same thing with Molly in TBB when he wanted to get in the morgue. Flirting isn’t real Sherlock to me, just an act he puts on when he wants something from a woman.

What makes you think Sherlock had genuine feelings for her though? The only time that Sherlock was himself around her was in the hospital and he was quite unaffected by the whole thing so it would seem his feelings were superficial at best, more like she was fun girl to be around but rather indifferent otherwise. Everything else was an act if you go by the hospital scene. Or just look at how he talked about her to John. “Convenient to meet her at the wedding” which I always took as he knew who she was from the beginning and started the act off the bat. As far as why she let him up? I don’t know maybe because she was curious about the real reason he proposed or more realistically, it was a plot point to get Sherlock shot by Mary.

I don’t think it’s a small part of Moffat going by how he writes which is why deservedly gets all the criticism for how he writes women. Given the sum total of Sherlock being nice to Molly amounts to like 4 scenes in 4 series of scenes, I’m not sure Molly’s is much better. Why would she have done the opposite? I’m not sure i follow your logic. Given that Sherlock didn’t feel remotely guilty for anything he did (it was even in the direction of that scene in the script that he had no shame) then why would him not sleeping with her have to be for gentleman reasons? It could simply be he didn’t want to, yes?

Why would it have to be revealed though? It’s not like it would have amounted to anything? Maybe it was the same interview I saw about TBB with Moffat, Sue V, Mary actress, Gatiss? In that interview Sue V had to remind Moffat about Molly in the list of women that Sherlock has been awful to which I thought was funny. This pretty much describes friends with benefits but in my experience these were more common around college age or people who travel a lot and don’t want to be tied down.

Did they have a relationship? Who proposes or accepts a marriage proposal over an intercom? The whole thing was played like a joke. Maybe it wasn’t intended to be that but that’s what it seemed like to me. Just because she may have been asked to get information on Sherlock before she met him doesn’t mean she couldn’t have thought he was fun or a potential friend with benefits after she met him. I never got the sense that she was in love with him and devastated over what happened but more annoyed that he wasn’t what she thought he was. I doubt Sherlock was his normal jerk self around her considering he was using her for something. Frankly what’s in the ACD original stories doesn’t matter to me because I just go by what I see onscreen when I watch this version. Same thing for me when I watch elementary. I view them as separate works with separate ideas. I both like and dislike aspects of both for reasons that have nothing to do with the other show or how consistent they are with the ACD stories which were set in a completely different era/culture.

The problem is how often is John right about Sherlock? I’m not sure we can trust his judgment!

I agree with this but even if John believes that why would you give advice to pursue her knowing what and who she is? Wouldn’t a friend advise the opposite thinking she’s bad news for their friend? That’s what I disliked most about that line. I guess you can chalk it up to John’s grief and Moffat’s obsession with Irene but it wasn’t good advice. Even Sherlock seems to know that it’s not good for him, “i try not to”.

All Magnussen had to is say when you meet Sherlock Holmes at the wedding see what you can find out about him. That doesn’t have to be anything about sex just simply befriending like Mary and Janine did since Magnussen is always looking for information on people which should come as no surprise if she’s his assistant. It could be that after she met Sherlock that she liked him and the rest was her choice. I’ve seen that storyline on several shows and movies. Mr and Mrs Smith had a very similar storyline, for example.

Would Molly have been around John or mrs. H? Isn’t Sherlock the common thread there? I mean how good of friends was she with them around the time of TRF? Also I thought John basically left. Wasn’t mrs h mad that he wasn’t around those two years? Not sure about Molly and Lestrade maybe it would have depended on if they were on the same case. I just don’t how much lying directly to them she really had to do.

By “murder” I presume you mean it wasn’t murder? How so? He did mortally shoot an unarmed man.