Janyss

Well, I've been through the last posts a little, and I realise I'm completely taken aback with the mention of some fans' behaviour. At least I can mention this to my relatives when they charge me with being too much involved in fandoms :)! I assume these people (not a majority, but so dedicated...) tend to mix fiction and reality in a very nasty way (as fiction, being part of our imagination, is ALSO, part of the reality and influences the way we see it). And there's one thing I am strongly determined about people telling stories: they. Are. The. Bosses. If Moftiss don't want to tell more Sherlock stories, they just have to stop. If they don't starve anymore for doing it (even if they have bad reasons not to starve anymore), and try to do it anyway, that'll be bad, that's it. Any good writer, screenplayer...will tell you that first, comes starvation of creating something. Besides, they are the ones who decide to tell you or not about their vision of characters and of storyline. One can be angry at it, that's the same. This said, the creators can't expect any absence of reactions to their choices. They became public personnalities, and there is a price to pay, in the limitations of considering them as human beings. Come on, Mr Moffat, you must have experienced this on a smaller scale when you were a teacher (you certainly have had to be careful with your words, with your interpretation of what you were in charge to teach...). And thus there's no problem questioning (for instance) women's depiction with civilized terms in Sherlock (don't worry, I'm less angry about this now that I've seen last S3 and series 4! No death threats planned!). We must admit, anyway, that about Sherlock, the writers deal with something complicated in the very beginning: after all, Conan Doyle in the first place had to deal with angry fans, and even had to surrender!

I must admit I began with the movie -which really caught me, and that I regularly rewatch, at least a few scènes- and that it was quite difficult to deal with the book! A whole summer leave, pieces by pieces! I didn't succeed for Foucault's pendulum, anyway...later, I discovered a kind of "post-Name of the Rose" by Eco (I don't know the title in English), in which he explains how he created the characters and the story. He goes into details about how he created a detective who could look like both a medieval monk and a kind of Sherlock Holmes. And certainly the name "Adso" is aimed at ringing to us as "Watson". Never thouhgt of it, that's the point of discussing your favourite movies and books!

Sorry Hikari, I meant that the way Sherlock talks about his brother, refering to "brother Mycroft" in front of John, was ironic, not Mycroft himself :). But may be he's a little sharp, too.

I don't know if there is another thread related to characters and stories inspired by Sherlock Holmes. Ranking first among them to my mind, comes the novel by Umberto Eco, The name of the rose (yeah, I assimilated the colour and the flower for my title, as we do in French. Sorry for this calculated mistake). I'll go through a few common points, and hope you'll give others. Well, the story takes place in the Middle Ages, in Italy, Inside a community of monks in which many murders happen. A monk from abroad, as a guest in the community, is asked to investigate...The hero's name is William of Baskerville, and the story is told by Adso, a young man very close to William, once he became old. William finds clues, deduces, solves the cases...but annoys everybody because he trusts his observations and not only God or traditional beliefs. In the end, the last case goes wrong and the very bad guy escapes because William is very arrogant (somewhat like with Vivienne Norbury)...In Jean-Jacques Annaud (yes, French!)'s adaptation, Sean Connery portrays William in a very sherlockian way. Reading the book or watching Annaud's movie will allow you to go through a very good story and many allusions to our favourite consulting detective. Some are obvious, some may be from your own interprétations (I'd draw a parallel between the burning of the library and the one in Musgrave). hope the next adaptation as a series, planned for 2019, will follow this reference and will play very nicely with it as well.

I tend to connect the books and the series very much (but I always do with any adaptation)....and after the Moftiss series I read The Bruce Partington first (yeah, massive Mycroft fan), that I didn't know (I had read mainly Baskerville and Study in Scarlett before, and I knew The greek interpreter). Well, in The Greek interpreter, indeed Sherlock seems very proud and admirative of big brother. Is it the fact to have watched the series, or isn't Bruce PArtington's "brother Mycroft" a little more ironic? Of course, "brother mine" and "brother dear" in the sharp tone, as well as the issue of rivalry between the brothers, is Moftiss's creation, but it is given way in Bruce Partington (and by the way, I guess some groups of fans noticed that in the same short story, Mycroft gets to Baker street with "Lestrade on his heels").

Another side effect I have to blaim Moftiss for: I began reading or re-reading the original novels and short stories by ACD...and sure I see them in another way now! Well, I already had an image of Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson as I had begun reading them after watching the Jeremy Brett series, but it was a very close adaptation. Moftiss's one gives more way to interpretation, franckly deals with subtext...and you read otherwise: now you see Watson's desperation and search for strong emotions when back in London in the opening scene, you can't help having the feeling of a bitter-sweet expression when you read Sherlock refering to "brother Mycroft" or when he says about him: "Jupiter is descending to-day"...and much more, I guess, as the series is both a faithful adaptation and the creation of a universe.

I don't hate re-watching ASIB anyway...It's Sherlock! And there is the bed sheet scene, "shut up mrs Hudson", the outcome...and a few other good scenes. My dislike is mainly about the transposition of Irene Adler, and the way the plot is told. I also like the moment you mention, but the little boy in the well is something really awful, even if the screenplayers left it, with reason, to only a few seconds. I tend to go forwards there when rewatching, but of course BC and the effects of setting are brilliant here. I was referring to the memories in the beginning of the episode, when Mycroft tells about Euros: there is much poetry in it, the character is completely immersed in his memories, and the storytelling is dynamised by Mycroft's lies about Readbeard.

I guess I tend to prefer MG's épisodes, or the ones Moffat and Gatiss wrote together. I have the feeling Moffat takes himself very seriously when writing. Plots and characters are mainly dark ones, there are many stressing situations...MG's épisodes (or the ones he took part in) have a kind of distant lightness, irony and humour, with improbable characters and situations (the Golem for eg in TGG, or Lady Brecknell thing in TFP). I like that.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting and suggestive. And, so much to comment (I didn't check wether there is a topic about favourite eps or not, and I hope I won't be in contradiction with the marks I gave to the episodes): First, I must admit I don't like that much some well-praised episodes. I don't mind the fourth step for TLD, but I can't cope with ASIB ranking second (come on. A story supposed to depict a mastermind woman, and she has to pop up and parade completely naked to be taken serious?). Then, I widely prefer T6T, the Hounds, HLV and of course the Bride to other ones ranking better like, let's say, TEH or TGG. To finish, I must admit it is very difficult to determine the very best of all episodes...If you had the right to only ONE Sherlock on a desert island?...ASIP as for me, but with many regrets (as my favourite scene is, I think, the scene of memories in TFP).

Agree on both points. Remember that Sherlock was very close to Mary and CAM in the room of the shooting, and until the last minute he believed the woman assaulting at CAM was lady Smallwood. So we an assume Mary could make herself kind of invisible to the surveillance cameras. About the way MG portrays Mycroft in HLV, TAB and all the épisodes of S4...well, you viewer go through all emotions: you hate him for the way he talks to Sherlock, for the way he acts towards people trying to help, and the very minute after you want to hug him -I guess J.P. will tell me to "get in line" at this point :)- when Sherlock shouts back at him or when he doesn't know how to deal with baby brother anymore (oh, the last scene in the plane whne he collects the pieces of the list -cry-). And, well, about CAM, I'd say Mycroft only reminds Sherlock of the fact that fighting with the tycoon means going on a field in which good and evil are not that clearly defined. Again a highlight to the main gap between the two brothers.

Very stimulative questions about Mycroft, how and why he looks after Sherlock's life...I didn't read it all, so sorry if I repeat Something or if I am irrelevant... I'd say Sherlock always ranks first in Mycroft's worrying. Big brother is interested in other people only if they can help him about Sherlock, and I don't think he develops specific feelings or interests for John, Mary... When Sherlock is supposed to be dead, he doesn't keep contact with John, underlining that the idea of doing so is ridiculous. Well does he know about Mary and her past at the moment of the wedding? The talk on the phone with Sherlock suggests that he does, but the fact that he doesn't come to the wedding indicates that he wants his brother and the couple to live their own lives (even if he doesn't believe it possible, that's why to my mind he insists on "don't get involved" to Sherlock). Then in HLV, does he know that Mary shot Sherlock? I'm not sure...Then in T6T, he underlines that people like Mary can't have a normal life and are sentenced to death at some point. I have the feeling that Mycroft's choices are based upon a realistic -may be fatalistic- point of view, while Sherlock always tries to get out of the dreadful alternatives of reality. That's the main difference between them.

I think you've exactly pointed why I like CAM...he represents the part of evil which we have to accept, or that we find difficult to fight, in our existences. That's Mycroft's statement in the beginning of the episode. The difference is that Mycroft has renounced to fight against him and tries to cope, and Sherlock refuses and decides to wage the battle, even if he gets his hands dirty, even if it costs a lot, and even if the challenge is impossible. It reminds me of a tale here in France (I don't know the equivalent in English-speaking literature), called "Mr Seguin's goat" (la chèvre de M. Seguin): the little goat has been warned against the wolf if she goes out in the forest, but she refuses to remain behind the farm's fences and flees. In the evening, she meets the wolf and knows she hasn't got any chance to survive. However, she fights the wolf all the night long, sentencing herself to death, but refusing to give up without trying to get rid of the wolf...In HLV, it seems to me that Sherlock behaves a little like this little goat.

I understand your point of view...but I really tend to prefer Magnussen to Smith as a villain (of course Moriarty is beyond any competition). Smith is -to me- some kind of "too much", I don't know... CAM has a venenous charm that makes the character attractive, something like that.

The topic of the book looks quite interesting. I had never heard of it, but this new series may be an opportunity to get me in the universe of fantasy (saying I'm not familiar with it is an understatement...).

I'll try to rewatch TBB one day(as I asume it is your "odd", Carol?...). It seems everyone consider it as the weakest of all the épisodes. And yes, series 4 has very unequal épisodes, or even unequal scenes inside each episode. In TLD I can't cope with Culverton Smith, but I love all the female roles (Mrs Hudson, Mary, Alicia, Faith-the therapist-Euros...even Molly is good here!). There are some boring moments in T6T, next to very good ones. I'd say in the other series, the épisodes have a more regular rhythm.

I didn't vote before, so even with s4 competing, s3 as for me. With much hésitation, but that's it. In the other series there are episodes I don't like (I mean, much less than others, it's Sherlock anyway): second one in S1, first one in S2, and second one in S4 (I know, it's the reverse for most of the fans and critics, but that's it). S3 is the only one in which I like the three ones.

Many side effects for me as well..with Sherlock, but before with other TV shows...time spent on searching for and reading press articles, fanzines (that was in the time of X-files and Friends, over now!), and forums. Time spent in writing fanfics (not here, I wouldn't cope with English so as to write a whole story, but in French for Person of interest. And I can't imagine developing a plot which would be good enough for Sherlock's déductions, and even if I can imagine A LOT about some Mycroft's love stories, that can't be -as for me- the only point for a Sherlock development)... But it gave me ideas for work, as in the recent years I could refer to some scènes of my favourite series to explain a few history and geography concepts to my students(I teach these subjects): a comparison between Friends and Person of interest gives a good idea of the evolution of our world's major cities (with prices growing, more and more offices and less and less accomodations...which is refered as "gentrification"), John shouting at Sherlock "oh God yes!" allows me to introduce the concept of brutalization of minds by the wars...not completely a waste, thus. I have become more and more attracted in the idea that popular culture and entertainment can be an open door to many fields that are often considered only for a few people. And of course, enjoying Sherlock gave me the pleasure to get here and have exchanges with people all over the world.

SM mentionned having been a teacher in his early years in an interview to the French TV magazine "Télérama", but that was a few years ago. I'll try to find a link, but it will be in French, if ever published online...

John uses the sentence, indeed, bacause Sherlock just comes back from what was supposed to be a trip in Eastern Europe, and because our dear detective has just explained before that Mycroft told him stories involving "East Wind" in his childhood (and in this time, it refered to Euros, I think it was one of the words Mycroft needed to "monitor" Sherlock). I'd say John's words here are meant to put us on a wrong trail... About my theory, I admit that it is a quite personal way of reading the episode, the sentence and Euros's character. I would give much to know if it matches with Moftiss's intentions when they wrote the screenplay...

Yes, Euros Lyn may have given Moftiss an idea. But the way "East Wind" is turned into a real character is just amazing (yeah, I love TFP and Euros very much, in spite of clumsy things in it). However, you know that in my opinion, there is a historical-geopolitical meaning in Moftiss's Euros, as there was in ACD's "East Wind". That may not be the main point in the story, but when I see her, I can't help thinking about preachers of hate and indoctrinated people of our time (but also in other periods in history). When she burns Musgrave, I'm always taken by the scene, the ashes around Mycroft who closes his eyes, and I think of all the book burnings that fanatics all around the world used to make, and still make nowadays...

He was a teacher in his early working years, wasn't he? I didn't Watch the whole interview, but you can believe me: he remembers the job! A teacher one day, a teacher forever :D :D!

Perhaps we will get an S5 of Sherlock that picks up with Holmes and Watson in their retirement years. The careers of our two leads may have cooled off sufficiently by then to allow them the time. Sherlock retired to the Downs and his bees in 1904, when he was 50 years old. Benedict is presently 41, so we will have to keep our hope alive until at least 2027. Holmes and Watson were 60 and 62 respectively when the Great War broke out in 1914, and the Doctor rejoined the Royal Army Medical Corps. So it might be closer to 2037, provided Moffat doesn't kick in the interim. If I remember correctly my ACD, that is in the short story "His las bow", isn't it? The sentence "There's an East Wind coming", refering to the beginning of the Great War, must be somewhere in the last paragraphs of this text. I'm finally rather happy to have seen all the episodes of the series, so to say, one after the other. I miss them so much, can't imagine how it would have been to wait some two years between each season...moreover with cliffhangers! Here after the end of S4, there is a proper end, and I don't really believe in other eps...But, wait and see...the old years you refer to, Hikari,are also very interesting for our writers...

It does? I missed that! What makes you think so, Janyss? I'm not saying that's not right, I'm just wondering how you know. Well, that's my assumption, and I considered several points: first, in 4.02, Mycroft and Alicia leave the office for the week-end (as Alicia refers to it and specifies she'll be home). In the same moments, John is with Euros (at this point, I assume John telling about Mycroft and Alicia-Mycroft scene HAPPEN in the same moments). Then in 4.03 the bombing with the drone takes place on a Sunday morning (as Sherlock states, referring to Speedy's café being closed). Owing to what John said when he left Mycroft's house, this bombing happens the very next day after the "film noir" and "pantomime" evening, which thus takes place on saturday. I can't imagine Sherlock wasting one more week on the trail of the truth about his sister, and friday evening plus saturday must be enough for him to meet John, be informed of the existence of another Holmes and planning the terrific setting to get the truth from "bro" himself (as John certainly told about Mycroft's lapsus in 4.02). All this (hope I was clear, never forget English is not my native language) makes me think that the beginning of 4.03 in Mycroft's home happens just after the end of 4.02, and that Mr Iceman didn't call Alicia, or may beplanned to call her another moment. Oh God can you just imagine if he had called her and invited her home, and if Sherlock had kept determined in making his plan happen :) !... And yes, Hikari, "chaud" ("hot") sometimes means "sexy", "appealing", in French :).

I've always wondered if Lars Mikkelsen had a family link with Mads. Thanks, I learned much about him, and he looks impressive! About Mycroft...well, the thing is both relationships match with the characters...Mycroft and Greg both deal with reality, with heavy decisions to make, with huge amounts of guilt, with disgusting human behaviours..., each one on his own level, diplomacy for Mycroft and criminality for Greg. They could make it, in spite of the difference of social standard. Not to mention how hot the two actors are, each one in his way...Moreover, Greg could support Mycroft in his "not as strong as he believes" moments. So, I'm not really surprised to hear of Mystrade. Do you know if the writers said something about this? I know that the last lines between Sherlock and Greg in 4.03 have been seen as a clue of "mystrade", and even labelled "fan service", owing to the success of the assumption. A couple with Lady Smallwood would be very nice, too. A very good person to make Mr Iceman melt! And it is very nice to see a middle aged woman expressing desires like that. The way she is showed in the card scene is just fantastic! I think I've written somewhere on the forum that this one and only character (well, with Mrs Hudson's doing in 4.02, too) brought me to forgive all the disappointing women in the show! But the writers should have given an outcome to Mycroft-Alicia story instead of just suggesting things. We just can assume Mycroft didn't call in the end, as episode 4.02 ends on the friday evening, and 4.03 begins on the very next saturday night with a lonely Mycroft home. I assume the Lady Smallwood thing is just aimed at suggesting us that even a dark-sided character like Mycroft deserves love: Lady Smallwood knows about all the décisions Mycroft had to make, and in spite of this, sees him as a potential partner.

Well, I'd say Mycroft hides many things...even to himself, may be...I just can't imagine him as asexual, even if it's the way Mark Gatiss has sometimes described it. On the contrary I would see him as a quite open-minded man, focusing on who's interesting or appealing whatever the gender is. Fire Under ice in this field too... Agree for the others.