Cumberbatch vs Miller?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I do think that Elementary has tighter plots than Sherlock, but then Sherlock isn't so much about the plots, is it?  End result:  I like Elementary, but I love Sherlock.

 

P.S.:  Despite not expecting (or perhaps even wanting) tight plots from Sherlock, I really do appreciate it when they're reasonably coherent.  And most of them are.

 

[by the sea]

 

P.S.:  Despite not expecting (or perhaps even wanting) tight plots from Sherlock, I really do appreciate it when they're reasonably coherent.  And most of them are.

 

LOL !  It took me many viewings to figure out all of the things going on in  Sign of Three ... I might not be there yet.   But the beauty of Sherlock is that I'm more than willing to go back and watch again so I can get what's missing.  I can usually sort out what's happening on Elementary the first time and feel no need to go back over the stories ... short and sweet, I guess.   So the plot unfolding over time is one of the many fun parts about Sherlock to me.  Mind you, I'm not opposed to understanding the story in a 45 minute episode ... DUH !   ... and when you make 20+ episodes in a series it's important to make things clear, I think ... no time to mull the issues over or the next episode will be on you and you still don't know what's going on ... kind of like The Blacklist ... apart from the basic premise, I haven't got a clue what's going on there !  But I digress ... The length of the episodes without commercials on Sherlock gives the viewer more to work with as well ... twice as long as Elementary and not all chopped to pieces.  And, harking back to the title of this thread, Mr. Cumberbatch ... have you noticed that he's showing up everywhere these days ?  A veritable social butterfly !   ... is just sooooooo much cuter than Mr. Miller !     

 

Debbie

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Mr. Miller isn't bad looking.....altogether....but I find him more like the Richie interpretation of Holmes then the Conan Doyle version. Shorter, scruffier. Maybe not necessarily a bad thing....but just not what I would expect nor what draws me in.

[by the sea]

Mr. Miller isn't bad looking.....altogether....but I find him more like the Richie interpretation of Holmes then the Conan Doyle version. Shorter, scruffier. Maybe not necessarily a bad thing....but just not what I would expect nor what draws me in.

 

Exactly !  I don't like to dwell on appearance really, but in the case of Mr. Miller in Elementary, I find it disconcerting.  I keep wondering why he doesn't spruce himself up a bit.  After all,  Watson is pretty fashionable but Holmes looks like he hasn't cleaned up in a week and his clothes look binding, like he can't move comfortably in them.  The powers that be must have some plan for it, but I'm not getting it.

 

Debbie

[Ruthyone]

I haven't seen 'Elementary' so really can't comment but I think whatever Mr Cumberbatch wins through!

[Janie]

I haven't seen Elementary either but I'm curious about Miller's Holmes so I think I might watch the first episode tonight. At least I will have something to say here

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

To me it was like they took "TRF"  and "HLV" kind of mushed 'em together but with Mycroft as the one who is being forced to fake his death and disappear....for ever...and Sherlock takes up the M16 challenge willingly........hhhmmmmm...

[Arcadia]

I've tried to watch Elementary several times, gotten bored each time and wandered off. I've always liked Lucy Liu but nothing else about the show incites my interest, sorry to say.

 

By the way, I started watching Sherlock because I've loved Martin Freeman in everything I've seen him in. Then I was like, OMG, who is this Cumberbatch guy?!?!?!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Elementary is kinda like Sherlock in that it really helps to start at the beginning.  Recent episodes of both have been pretty rococo.

 

[Arcadia]

Oh, I don't know, my first episode of Sherlock was Scandal. Grabbed me immediately. (And after the rescue of Mrs. Hudson, I was in LUV.)  Again, the acting. Oh, the acting. And the script. And the cinematography, I'm a very visually oriented person, inventive cinematography wins me over every time.

 

Same with Buffy, never even heard of it until it had been in syndication for some time; the first episode I saw was halfway thru season 4, grabbed me instantly. Ditto Star Trek, I was overseas when it came out, the first ep I saw was the one with Gary Seven. Some shows are pure magic to me, most aren't. I think that's why I obsess over the ones that are!

 

I just realized what all these dramas have in common is they let me think, but make me laugh. Is Elementary ever lol funny? I haven't been able to stick with it long enough to find out, I'm afraid.

[Carol the Dabbler]

It seems to me that one could start watching Sherlock with any of the first few episodes -- I just can't imagine anybody wandering in on "His Last Vow" and making any sense of the goings on.  (Heaven knows I'm having enough trouble doing so, and I started with "A Study in Pink.")

 

[Janie]

I saw the first episode of Elementary yesterday and... I don't know. I quite liked it but didn't love it. It took me a while before I got used to Miller's Holmes. At first he didn't seem like Sherlock Holmes to me at all but it got better. I loved Cumberbatch's Sherlock from the first second he appeared on the screen.

About Watson, I thought I wouldn't like her but she wasn't that bad. The case was quite interesting and I liked the deductions but it was like any other CSI tv show. It didn't feel special to me like BBC Sherlock. I think I will watch a few more episodes to see if it gets better. 

 

 

[by the sea]

 

 

Same with Buffy, never even heard of it until it had been in syndication for some time; the first episode I saw was halfway thru season 4, grabbed me instantly. Ditto Star Trek, I was overseas when it came out, the first ep I saw was the one with Gary Seven. Some shows are pure magic to me, most aren't. I think that's why I obsess over the ones that are!

 

 

 

Oh ... I love, love, love Buffy !  Like you, Arcadia, I came to the fandom sort of after the fact but, to this day, I get very excited at the prospect of watching even one episode of Buffy ... well, some episodes I can live without !   I make a point of watching the entire series on DVD or Netflix at least once a year.  Heroic, strife-ridden girl saves the world ... what could be better ?? Well, possibly Sherlock !!  I just happened to pick Sherlock at random off the British series menu on Netflix, so I've watched it in order and frankly, I was doubtful before I started to watch, since there seems to be so much Sherlock stuff going on out there in entertainment land.  I had seen Elementary before watching Sherlock and am so happy I chose to check it out as it is amazing.  Elementary is fine for an hour's diversion but Mr. Cumberbatch, Mr. Freeman et al. make the stories, even the oddities, come so much more to life.

 

Debbie

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[Arcadia]

Yeah, if I had to choose between Sherlock or Buffy, I think I'd just jump off a cliff instead. Endlessly entertaining, even the not-best episodes. Well, the last season of Buffy I could largely do without, I'm afraid. But the final scene was almost worth it.

[Ultragonk]

I was thinking today about Sherlock's Mycroft v Elementary's Mycroft and to be honest I don't think I'm not happy with either of them. We all know that Mycroft is supposed to be the rotund misanthrope with the laser like intellect that from time to time gets Holmes to do his bidding but generally keeps to himself.

 

Though Sherlock's Mycroft has the misanthropy and intellect level close to being right Mark Gatiss is a much thinner that you would imagine Mycroft to be (though he is a decent enough actor). With Elementary's Mycroft you again, have a thin version of Mycroft who is far more sociable than the original and doesn't seem to have the intellect and as much as I like my fellow countryman Rhys Ifans no matter how much make up and well tailored clothes you give the man he still looks like he spent the pervious night sleeping on a park bench. 

 

I don't know if people just don't want to see fat people on TV anymore but there are a good few fat actors who would play the part of Mycroft very well on either side of the pond. 

[Pawse]

With Benedict, I find myself rooted to the spot and just literally watching and listening. Completely riveted.

[Carol the Dabbler]

My favorite "canon" Mycroft is Charles Grey from the Granada series.  He really nailed the character, in my opinion, so perhaps no one wants to try competing with him.

 

They have at least given Gatiss's Mycroft an excuse for not being fat -- he used to be, but he's lost weight (and is constantly struggling to keep it off).  So at least there's that nod to canon.  I don't recall whether Elementary has given any explanation at all, any more than they're explained why Watson has suddenly developed another X chromosome.  I don't particularly mind their physical differences, though.

[by the sea]

as much as I like my fellow countryman Rhys Ifans no matter how much make up and well tailored clothes you give the man he still looks like he spent the pervious night sleeping on a park bench. 

 

 

 

LOL !       I was thinking exactly the same thing.  I keep saying that I don't want to dwell on appearances but I think I really do.  I can't help wanting people in the Holmes world to be neat and tidy ... at least clean-looking.  Heck, even when Sherlock was in the "opium den" in HLV, he looked neater than many of the characters in Elementary.  Maybe somebody with Mr. Cumberbatch's profile can't look sloppy ... I don't know.   But JLM is so scruffy he makes me feel itchy.  There is no comparison between Mycrofts in my mind ... Elementary's Mycroft is just a mess where Mr. Gatiss always looks like he belongs in the upper reaches of the government ... right where he should be. 

 

Debbie

[Ultragonk]

My favorite "canon" Mycroft is Charles Grey from the Granada series.  He really nailed the character, in my opinion, so perhaps no one wants to try competing with him.

 

They have at least given Gatiss's Mycroft an excuse for not being fat -- he used to be, but he's lost weight (and is constantly struggling to keep it off).  So at least there's that nod to canon.  I don't recall whether Elementary has given any explanation at all, any more than they're explained why Watson has suddenly developed another X chromosome.  I don't particularly mind their physical differences, though.

 

Yes Charles Grey was fantastic and I always liked to see him on screen. 

 

I believe with Elementary they explained Mycrofts weight loss by saying he had had cancer but had now recovered. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Oh, right!  They did mention that he'd been seriously ill.  I just never made the connection with weight loss.  Thanks!

 

[Slithytove]

I watch Elementary but I don't know why....It isn't as bad as the Guy Ritchie films (action hero Sherlock Holmes, for God's sake!) but it is pretty awful.

 

Johnny Lee Miller is the only bearable thing in the whole series, and I suppose I watch it because I do think he is a talented actor. Lucy Liu is a beautiful woman but couldn't act her way out of a paper bag. Aidan Quinn and the rest of his team could have come from any run-of-the-mill cop show. Moriarty's identity is absurd. And what have they done to Mycroft and Lestrade? Made both of them unrecognisable. Particularly the latter, who seems to have become a publicity-hungry buffoon. If I remember ACD's tales correctly, Holmes was frequently condescending, bordering on rude, to Lestrade but considered him the best that the Yard had to offer. Rather like Sherlock's attitude to modern Lestrade. In neither case was Lestrade an oaf, as he was in Elementary.

 

Then there are the plots, which make Sherlock's storylines seem almost plausible ( even THoB!) by comparison. If you have seen the episode with the ears, you will know what I mean.

 

My younger daughter is a big fan of JLM, and has never appreciated Benedict's loveliness, but has to admit that Elementary is cringe-worthy. As she says, JLM and Benedict are probably friends, having worked on together on stage, and the former must surely be embarrassed when they compare Sherlock and Elementary. Particularly the storylines - the one about the drones was bad but the episode of the ears was so silly that we all burst out laughing when the solution was revealed.

 

And yet we keep watching. Maybe it's because JLM is interesting in an abrupt, twitchy sort of way. I can't think of him, though, as Sherlock Holmes. I think I would like the show a lot better if it was just about a clever, highly-strung ex-addict-turned-detective but had nothing to do with Holmes. Then I wouldn't find myself muttering, "What? That's Moriarty? Never!" or "Why has Mycroft's character become completely unrecognisable?"

 

I'd be interested to see their take on Mary Morstan, though, who would presumably be a man, as Joan Watson is apparently straight.