HerlockSholmes

Carol, you’ve reminded me what troubled me with Elementary. They made Watson way too clever!

Forget the bugged underwear, Hikari. This is the fanfic I want you to write. :) Boton, This is not an original idea of mine--I refer you to the CBS series Elementary. 'Miss Hudson' appears in, I want to say, S2. She is Kandis Kane, transgender entertainer and for a brief while, companion of Caitlyn Jenner. It didn't last long, and may have just been a publicity stunt for 'I am Cait'. Between you and me and the bedpost, the former Bruce/now Cait is a deeply mentally-confused individual. She doesn't seem to really know who or what she wants, other than Attention. Kandis seems much more at peace with herself, but she's been at it longer. There wasn't any particular reason to make Mrs. Hudson (here a 'Miss') transgender, other than pushing the envelope for pushing the envelope's sake. I think it would have been more hilarious if they'd make Sherlock's housekeeper a little Vietnamese lady who didn't speak a word of English but still managed to boss around Sherlock Holmes within an inch of his life. I have a vivid imagination but I confess it falls short of inhabiting trans mind space. I will leave this fan fic to those who feel that calling, possibly a trans author will step forward and oblige you. I'll stick with my bugged underpants story if that's OK. As a red-blooded hetero female who's never desired to be Other, I get a bigger kick out of imagining Sherlock, either in, or out, of his underpants. I'm sure you understand. :) I didn’t know that Elementary’s Mrs Hudson was transgender. You’ve got me wondering about Mary Gordon now! Or even worse Minnie Rayner! I too saw the first three series of Elementary ( I have the fourth but haven’t gotten around to watching it) and liked it but then I thought to myself “first Sherlock now Elementary. I’m straying too far from The True Path here

Nah, that's fine, imo. I do like the idea of a female Holmes and Watson but I want to write them myself as fanfiction, not watch them on TV :-P Before Sherlock, I refused to see any adaptation of the Sherlock Holmes stories because I liked the character so much. I only consented to watch the BBC show because Martin Freeman was in it, then, well... I fell in love. Funny, I have never thought of Holmes as very male. For me, he always came across as if his gender didn't really matter. I wasnt even happy when I heard about Sherlock. Fortunately it was one of the best surprises of my life

Thanks Boton, Having said what I’ve said I can’t imagine that I won’t have a look. I suppose that one of the things that puts me off this interpretation is that I get the impression that some things are novelty purely for novelty’s sake. Obviously money talks and the name Sherlock will pull in the viewers (at least at first, depending on how much the public like it.) Women obviously get short shrift in the Doyle stories. Apart from Irene Adler they are either damsels in distress or they bring in the tea (Doyle was hardly a modern man. He didn’t support women’s suffrage for example.) I wouldn’t dream of trying to ‘speak for’ women but why don’t they just write better roles for them. Create a new female detective who is cleverer than everyone else. Perhaps I’m just an old fogey who yearns for the man in the deerstalker dashing out into the foggy night to hail a Hansom cab? Ahh.....those were the days

I thought hard before posting this because I didn’t/don’t want to sound in any way sexist. But.....as a traditionalist I don’t like the idea of this. I’m preparing myself for comments.

I didnt know if anyone had heard of this or where to post it so Moderaters ‘feel free to move.’

Cooking is great........when other people do it for you

ITS A DISGRACE !!! Sorry to temporarily hijack the thread but it does say (The Rant Thread) What is the world coming to.

I’m certainly not a thrill seeker either T.o.b.y. One of the few times that I get stressed in life is when I contemplate the fact that I have a boring task to do. Instead of just doing it and getting it out of the way like a sensible person I have a tendency to put things off. I spend more time thinking of ways of getting out of doing things than I would have done in actually doing them. There’s no such thing as a life without boring tasks but I live in an endless quest to achieve one

I’ve only just spotted this thread. Some very interesting, complex and thought provoking responses so, being the simple guy I am, I’ll keep my response simple. In social situations (well, any situation really) I find it impossible to pretend to be interested in something or even someone. I’m polite (hey I’m English

I just checked out of curiosity - Alaska/Texas/California/Montana/New Mexico/Arizona/Nevada/Colerado/Oregon/Wyoming/Michigan are all individually larger than the UK! Carol’s Indiana is 0.39% of the UK and Hikari’s Ohio is 0.47% of the UK. I think you’re in Virginia Arcadia? That’s 0.45% of the UK. As far as accents go, to the average person, we can usually recognise them by general area (although I get the impression, for some reason, younger people don’t recognise accents so well these days) If I list them I’d say - Scotland, generic North East (includes Newcastle, Sunderland etc), generic Yorkshire, generic Lancashire, Liverpool, Manchester, generic Midlands, generic Welsh, generic West Country and South West (including Bristol, Devon etc), Cornwall, generic London and possibly (though less distinguishable[for me at least] an eastern accent Norwich/Ipswich etc. For example, to me, a Welsh accent is a Welsh accent, Pseudonym would tell you the real story though.

Me and my careless cursor! I’ve just found this... https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&ei=51dFWsSxHsnCwQLLxJbIAQ&q=jeremy+brett+hamlet&oq=jeremy+brett+hamlet&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..0.7671.14359.0.15557.21.20.1.5.5.0.119.1715.16j3.19.0....0...1c..64.mobile-gws-serp..1.20.1452.3..35i39k1j0i131k1j0i67k1j0i131i67k1j0i20i263k1j0i22i30k1.99.80TaXN56SuU#imgrc=VEyLnNao3bnVwM: Arthur Wontner played Laertes on stage and Polonius in a TV movie but no main character as far as I can see. Then there’s ... https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/apr/01/sherlock-andrew-scott-moriarty-play-hamlet-almeida-theatre-cumberbatch I can’t see any mention of Robert Stephens actually playing Hamlet but he played in Hamlet. Sir John Gielgud, who playedHolmes on radio did..... https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&ei=DlpFWreANczPwAK-ooDIAQ&q=john+geilgud+hamlet&oq=john+geilgud+hamlet&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..0i13k1j0i22i30k1.12415.17633.0.18065.21.20.1.5.5.0.123.1869.13j6.19.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..1.20.1567.3..0j46j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i131i67k1j0i131k1j0i46k1j0i20i263k1j0i10k1.79.hTFeV76txDM#imgrc=EE3Qw89vOPk2GM: Found one. John Neville, a very good Holmes in my opinion in A Study In Terror... https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=john+neville+hamlet&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik1v7nzK3YAhXOJFAKHeHyByEQ_AUIESgB&biw=1024&bih=1251#imgrc=zaBEIDbYPD6CZM: Another radio Holmes, Orson Welles, unsurprisingly played Hamlet. You’re probably right about Jude Law Hikari. Unless my brain’s not working (and there’s every chance of that) I can only think of one actor that I know has played both Holmes and Watson?

What did I do wrong? My response to Hikari has appeared in the quote box. Oops.

Evidently Robert Stephens knew whatof he was advising Mr. Brett . . I just read recently that he had something of a nervous breakdown and contemplated suicide while making TPLOSH. Not sure if it was down to his director being a martinet, his Method portrayal of Holmes's drug addiction and homoerotic impulses or what, but I found that an interesting factoid. For those of delicate mental constitution, playing the Great Detective seems to make one unbalanced! What does this mean? Perhaps those actors who portray Jesus Christ struggle with the same gargantuan burdens of expectation that they also be Perfect? I’m unsure why playing Holmes should have such an effect on some actors. Of course Brett had other illnesses too but I suppose it’s partly due to the weight of expectations. An actor taking on the role would undoubtedly feel the weight of previous portrayals. Until Brett most would have considered Rathbone or possibly Wilmer to have been in some ways ‘definitive’ performance. Brett did want the series to be definitive and his own performance needed to live up to that so he had a heavy weight on his shoulders. Peter Cushing, on the other hand, was more of a Holmes fan than Brett and was also an absolute perfectionist on set (much to the frustration of directors) but he never experienced any ‘issues.’ Rathbone merely tired of being seen as Holmes rather than Basil Rathbone the actor. Neither Wilmer or Wontner suffered any adverse effects from playing the detective. Actors know that Holmes is the most beloved fictional character ever and that there are a legion of fans across the world ready to nitpick and pull apart any performance. Do actors playing Hamlet suffer in the same way?

I’m looking forward to this one. It was advertised in The District Messenger which is the newsletter of The Sherlock Holmes Society Of London. Eureka Entertainment is about to release The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes on Blu-ray, for the first time in the UK. The release date is 22 January 2018 and will be available for £15.99. According to the press release, features will include: 'Glorious 1080p presentation; Uncompressed PCM soundtrack; Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard-of-hearing; A new video interview with film scholar Neil Sinyard; The Missing Cases (50 mins): A presentation of the film's deleted sequences, using script excerpts, production stills and surviving film footage. Includes the film’s Original Prologue, The Curious Case of the Upside Down Room, The Adventure of the Dumbfounded Detective and The Dreadful Business of the Naked Honeymooners; Deleted Epilogue Scene (audio only); Christopher Lee: Mr. Holmes, Mr. Wilder - an archival interview with Christopher Lee about his experience working with Billy Wilder; Interview with editor Ernest Walter; Original theatrical trailer; PLUS: A collectors booklet featuring a new essay by Philip Kemp; the words of Billy Wilder; and rare archival imagery.' If anyone hasn’t seen this film (Mark Gatiss’s favourite) I can’t recommend it highly enough. A great story, some great comic moments and an excellent Holmes in Robert Stephens who was a good friend of Jeremy Brett (he actually advised Brett against playing Holmes as he thought the role would take him over. And for a time it did!) You also get Christopher Lee as a very stern Mycroft.

My Gran was born in Scotland but lived in the Midlands for 60+ years but never lost her Scottish accent. My brother went to live in Wales when he was young for a few months and came back with a definite Welsh accent (which he’s now lost.) Accents appear to be infectious but it’s not very often that someone can ‘do’ an accent and fool a local. There are always tell tale clues it appears.

Thought he was very good in Dr Who

I’m sure that’s true Carol. It can also be the case, I think, that accents can be lessened or deepened according to who we are speaking to. It’s probably a subconscious thing. Speaking to parents can mean ‘full accent’ as opposed to speaking to a stranger. When I hear someone on tv speaking with ‘my’ accent I always feel that it sounds ugly and clumsy. Maybe this is a common feeling and its why we might tend to ‘tone down?’ Or do we think that others might not understand what we’re saying? Or do we think that an accent = yokel.

That was great video Carol but even though I’ve heard his accent I don’t think that I’d recognise it again. I’d have to hear him speak regularly to become familiar with it. It would be obviously recognisable to you. I think ....Boston accent =JFK, New York = Peter Falk etc. The cops/doughnuts cliche is an understandable one. Hey, if they’re good enough for Homer Simpson.... Guilty as charged about The Tea Party (well, not me personally). I could try and get out of it by saying that George III was more German than English but it wouldn’t convince anyone

Hello Carol and Hikari, The guy in the link was good. There are so many accents in such a small place as the Uk (vastly more in The States of course) that we can usually only generalise as to ‘area.’ Examples are Newcastle and Sunderland up in the North East Of England. I can hear someone speak and immediately say ‘north east,’ but I can’t really distinguish between Newcastle and Sunderland. But there is a definate difference. I come from an area known as The Black Country and most people from other areas of the UK confuse the accent with a Birmingham one. To my ears it’s not close but to someone from other parts it’s similar. For both of you, a Birmingham accent is Ozzy Osbourne. The Black Country is more the comedian Lenny Henry (if you’ve heard of him?) Touché with the Sean Connery accent by the way Hikari but I’ll add one to the mix. It’s Robert Duvall (fine actor) as Watson in The Seven Percent Solution. It’s not that it’s a poor accent it’s just that it’s famous for being exaggeratedly ‘posh.’ Apparently he modelled it on the Conductor Sir Adrian Bolt but I’ve heard Bolt speak and even he’s not that posh! You are absolutely right Carol about those of us from the UK and American accents. If I heard your voice, Hikari’s and Arcadia’s I wouldn’t be able to identify who was who. Unless there’s someone very famous from Indiana (apart from yourself of course

Mrs Hudson wouldn’t have wanted a phone as Holmes and Watson would have been phoning for Takeaway meals and her food would go to waste

I like JD and coke too. I like a malt whisky but I know nothing about them. Some people are real connoisseurs and claim to find all manner of scents and flavours in each mouthful. I suspect that they probably do but that kind of appreciation takes years to acquire. I like Laphroaig too but to me it has a slightly medicinal taste that might not be to everyone’s taste. To be honest I’ve only tried around 10 different malts and I liked them all so I’m very easy to please. You’re right about the prices though. I was tempted by a bottle of Chivas Regal that I saw but it was (to you) almost $50! I dropped a few hints out for a Christmas present but there were no takers. No one likes me THAT much☹️. I’ve never tried or seen Crown Royal here but that doesn’t mean that it’s not available though. I just Googled it and saw that it’s Canadian. Nice bottles too. I do like Bourbon which I can drink neat or just with ice but I have to admit to liking JD and coke. It’s probably a throwback from my shady rock ‘n’ roll past! Not much of a beer man these days but I do like real ale and buy the occasional bottle. I met some people from The States when I was in London and they told me about the prevalence of craft beers and micro breweries over there. It’s easy to get the wrong impression by just watching tv. Over here we tend to think that it’s lager or nothing over there. I like wine too but again I know nothing about it. Actually I prefer port and have a bottle for Christmas to be consumed with cheese and biscuits. Old fashioned, country house, English etiquette (like Downton Abbey) says that the port should always be passed to the left! It’s amazing that we ever managed to get an empire together whilst focusing on such pointless triviality like that (and dressing for dinner!) but it’s all a part of the rich tapestry I suppose and Holmes would have conformed like everyone else. Anyone reading this post would assume that I’m going to spend most of the Christmas holiday in a drunken stupor! It’s not true. Some of the time I will be asleep. Cheers

That was great Hikari. Thanks for the wishes and I hope that you and your family and friends all have a great Christmas and New Year. I have a bottle of Talisker malt whisky waiting to be opened on Christmas Day (I have to resist opening it now☹️) and I’ll be toasting my newly acquired friends on this forum

I do take your points Hikari and it’s perhaps a difficult one to explain. Do we view him as an imposter or simply as another side of the coin? We know why Derleth wrote them. A few years later and he would in all probability have been writing Holmes pastiches. I tend to read the stories in the ‘pastiche’ frame of mind. One of the unusual features of the Pons stories is that he acknowledges the existence of Sherlock Holmes. Indeed he’s known as the Sherlock Holmes of Praed Street. To be honest, if I’d have written them, I’d have done them from an ‘alternative universe’ point of view. There would be a Pons but no Holmes. I do enjoy the stories as I enjoy a pastiche. Pons is slight more ‘friendly’ than Holmes. Less moody or prickly. I still prefer Holmes though.