HerlockSholmes

Good points but I have to say that it’s almost impossible to argue against a hypothetical scenario. I would add though that throughout his career Holmes always showed a sense of honour and justice. Although he appeared as the cold reasoner there are many examples of his genuine sympathy with victims of crime. Yes you could say that it was all an act but it would have been a difficult one to carry off with a close confidante like Watson and a brilliant and perceptive brother like Mycroft. He was also well known amongst the criminal classes (Shinwell Johnson is but one example) and so would have been taking an enormous risk in having a Moriarty-like organisation. Sending a criminal to jail or even the gallows might tempt an associate or family member of the criminal to talk. The police would be unlikely to believe them of course but if this caused others to talk the police might find it difficult to dismiss multiple rumours of Holmes nefarious activities. Moriarty’s name was known only to his closest confederates. He was faceless. Holmes would have had to deal with trying to remain hidden whilst being famous. Someone called upon by the police, politicians, the gentry and even royalty. Also Holmes would run the risk of overlap. What if he’d been called in to investigate a crime that he himself had been responsible for? Would he have failed on purpose? Or would he have sent an ‘employee’ to prison or even the gallows? In a reply to an earlier post you described Motriarty’s Living quarters as extravagant but these weren’t Holmes quarters. He lived at 221b. A comfortable but fairly modest suit of rooms. There is no evidence of Holmes being wealthy unless you are suggesting Holmes as a sort of Robin Hood figure

Carol, are these books aimed at teenagers? Not that it matters but I just wondered.

That's about all the information available for now. Thoughts? Sound interesting? Has anyone read these novels? Sounds interesting Artemis. I’d never heard of the books.

Leave the whisky alone?

But surely the point is that we know that Holmes turned to cocaine when he had nothing to occupy his mind. If, as you postulate, Holmes had a criminal empire (like Moriarty) this would surely have kept him fully occupied. I can’t see how Holmes would have had those periods of black moods because of mental inactivity? Simply put - Holmes occasionally used cocaine - therefore Holmes had periods where he was bored/unoccupied - therefore Holmes didnt have anything apart from crime solving to occupy himself - therefore Holmes couldn’t have had a criminal empire.

‘When he started doing crime, he had no need to do drugs because he was fully occupied.” My argument would then be that Holmes would have never needed to have turned to drugs because a man of his genius could have planned/executed crimes during any period where there were no crimes to solve. But as we know that Holmes did have ‘drug’ periods we can therefore assume that he wasn’t planning or executing crimes.

As you’ve postulated that Holmes might have turned to crime to keep his mind occupied why wouldn’t the problems of solving crimes have served the same purpose? It’s difficult to see why Holmes, during his periods of cocaine lethargy due to the lack of cases to occupy his mind, wouldn’t simply have filled those ‘voids’ by planning and executing crimes thus avoiding those dark periods. Yet those dark periods happened showing that Holmes had nothing, whether legal or illegal, to occupy his mind.

One issue worth raising, if Holmes was the centre of a vast criminal enterprise, is that we don’t see any evidence of the proceeds. Yes, I suppose that you could postulate that Holmes bought Watson’s practice, but that wouldn’t have soaked up the accumulated gain from a vast crime empire. Holmes and Watson lived comfortably but without extravagances. Indeed they were often pleased when they received payment for a case as they could treat themselves to a meal in a good restaurant. Even in retirement on the Sussex Downs Holmes lived in a cottage and kept bees.

Confession time: I have never seen a Rathbone/Bruce Holmes movie. Only clips and stills. But I gather that Nigel Bruce plays Watson basically the same as his turn opposite Cary Grant & Joan Fontaine in Suspicion . . . as a genial, dim 'old bean'. Loveable . . but do you really want to rely on him in a crisis? Nigel was a top character actor just taking direction, as actors do . . one wonders if he ever pined to play his Watson as just a tiny bit more intelligent and coordinated.You surprise me Hikari. If I’d advise any of the Rathbone/Bruce movies I’d go for ‘The Hound’ as I think it’s the best version ever. Then the next movie ‘The Adventures.’ Of The others I’d go for The Scarlet Claw And Terror By Night. I purchased a Sherlock movie pack featuring the Rathbone/Bruce Hound, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and another . .Without a Clue? . . can't remember. Then my TV died, and I haven't watched those discs yet. Soon, I hope. The Private Life Of Sherlock Holmes is a gem. I’ve just pre-ordered the new Blu-ray version with deleted scenes and documentary. I’m like a kid waiting for Santa

Confession time: I have never seen a Rathbone/Bruce Holmes movie. Only clips and stills. But I gather that Nigel Bruce plays Watson basically the same as his turn opposite Cary Grant & Joan Fontaine in Suspicion . . . as a genial, dim 'old bean'. Loveable . . but do you really want to rely on him in a crisis? Nigel was a top character actor just taking direction, as actors do . . one wonders if he ever pined to play his Watson as just a tiny bit more intelligent and coordinated. You surprise me Hikari. If I’d advise any of the Rathbone/Bruce movies I’d go for ‘The Hound’ as I think it’s the best version ever. Then the next movie ‘The Adventures.’ Of The others I’d go for The Scarlet Claw And Terror By Night.

That should read ‘one part’ rather than ‘part part,’ of course.

I enjoyed reading your work. I don’t really have time for a longer reply but I’d just question one part. “ Who but Holmes could invent a ruse guaranteed to make Watson withdraw? Because remember, for all his alleged brilliance, Moriarty didn’t even know what Sherlock Holmes looked like. When they first met (according to Holmes), all Moriarty said was, “You have less frontal development that I should have expected”. When he knew nothing about his enemy, Holmes, how could he be expected to invent a story so perfect that it would make Watson leave?” Surely you aren’t saying that just because Moriarty only made a brief comment on Holmes’ appearance that he didn’t know what he looked like? They met in Holmes sitting room and the meeting lasted a for a few minutes. They were face to face so Moriarty would have known exactly what Holmes looked like. As for being able to ‘invent a perfect story,’ well he knew that Watson was a doctor and that he would feel obliged to go and help a potentially dying woman. Holmes also reassured him that he should go and that they would meet up later. We also have ‘The Empty House’ were Moriarty’s right-hand man Colonel Sebastian Moran attempts to assassinate Holmes and is caught by Holmes and Watson. I’d also find it impossible to believe in a criminal Holmes because of his close relationship to Watson who would surely have had some suspicion.More tellingly we would expect his brother Mycroft to have had suspicions if Holmes was up to anything untoward as he knew him intimately.

Hi Ivijay, Welcome to the Forum. You will find a good mix of interests here from those that have come to Holmes via Sherlock and Holmes nerds like myself who have been a fan since first seeing the Basil Rathbone movies as a child. Doyle’s autobiography is a good read and there are many biographies too. Welcome again.

Welcome Cavaradossi, Any friend of Hikari’s etc, etc

Poor old Nigel Bruce has certainly come in for some criticism over the years for his portrayal of Watson. I think that it’s worth remembering though that the movies weren’t an attempt (like Granada’s) to make a completely faithful representation. They wanted Watson to be a counterbalance to the coldly logical Holmes and saw Bruce as the ideal man for the job. Bruce pretty much played the same character in every film he made. His character actually got more comic after The Hound Of The Baskervilles. The movie company no doubt saw the comic potential of the Rathbone/Bruce double-act.

Viagra is what we British take to help us keep a ‘stiff upper lip.’

Cuckold is good one. Are there any Elizabethan spammers out there? Why isn’t ‘forsooth’ on the list or ‘methinks?’

I’ll definately second that

Weird. Why should Rolex be a problem word? Are we missing something here?

Only three people wishing the Master a happy birthday.

I've noticed recently that people are able to say "dominatrix" without being chastised by the software (in fact they've been saying it for almost a year without me noticing, since this past February). So I'm gonna try posting the complete list of formerly forbidden words, a few at a time: Anal Animal Video Casino Cialis Cuckold Degree in radiology Diet Pills Dominatrix drop to the table before gay sex glass sex lesbian sex penicillin Poker Pokery Prozac Rolex Synthroid Tidsepoker Viagra Xanax .... and yay! They all work just fine now. Apparently the forum software has given up on stopping us from marketing Viagra. ;) ******************** Please note, however, that this presumably has no effect whatsoever on use of the sort of "naughty" words that your parents didn't want you to say. They're still not allowed on the forum, with the basic rule being that if you wouldn't be allowed to say it on Sherlock, you can't post it here. Damn! My next post was going to include all of those words!

The anti-environmental aspect is also worrying. The abortion one is obviously a very emotive subject. I’m a Humanist (and so an atheist) so I do worry about religious led laws. America’s halting of stem cell research is worrying as it could have a massively beneficial effect for all. The decision surprised me as although the USA is a very religious country the constitution famously separates church and state.

Hi Arcadia, Perhaps there was also an element of anti-political establishment about the vote (as well as anti-Clintonism) ? People tire of faceless politicians spewing the same political script. Trump was the outspoken ‘outsider.’ We have a similar thing going on here and it partially explains the ‘success’ of idiots like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson. People almost like the fact that they occasionally speak out of turn, it gives them a kind of man-of-the-people image (in Trumps Case a billionaire man-of-the-people) By calling Trump an idiot I sort of feel like I’m insulting the American people for voting him in but I think they were simply conned. He said what many wanted to hear (about helping ‘ordinary’ people/industry etc) and he opposed Clinton. Let’s just hope that the next election sees him gone

If this was a movie people would say that the script was too far fetched. How did this lunatic get into office? I shouldn’t say this but where’s Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him! The people of the USA deserve better that this. Come to think of it....we all do.

I was unsure where to post this (so moderators feel free to relocate). Im a day early as I wanted to be the first to wish Sherlock Holmes a Happy 164th Birthday tomorrow. I’m sure the most posters will be aware of this famous sonnet ‘221b’ written by the late and eminent Sherlockian Vincent Starrett (Who by the way also wrote one of the best Holmes pastiches ever, The Adventure Of The Unique Hamlet.) This is a link to the written version (I can’t post the actual one as I don’t know how to reduce the file size) https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=starrett+sonnet&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&oq=starrett+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0l2j69i60l2.4213j0j8&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=LI_Yn92npe6NWM: These are two spoken versions. I’m unsure about the first one but it may be Starrett himself. The second one, fittingly, is read by Basil Rathbone. https://youtu.be/WKoQ-PdF8QQ https://youtu.be/b_Fn7LZGiYo Happy Birthday my dear Holmes