HerlockSholmes

Holmes has been portrayed many times over the years on radio but it's perhaps surprising that many haven't heard of them. Some may have just decided that they aren't interested. I love the radio shows and have quite a few of them so I thought that I'd give a bit of information for anyone who is interested and who hasn't heard them or isn't aware of their existence. Although William Gillette didn't play Holmes on radio there is an audio recording of him reading the part. It may be on YouTube. A guy called Richard Gordon then followed as a radio Holmes. I'm unsure how many of these survive? I have one and his voice is a little 'reedy.' Then came Rathbone and Bruce who did over 80 recordings (all easy to buy and very cheap, or available to hear on YouTube.) Not many are faithful to the original stories but they are great. There's often sponsors messages and advertisements on there but it adds to the atmosphere. They always start with a presenter (originally an actor called Harry Bartell) arriving to meet 'our old friend Dr Watson.' They you hear Bruce's voice saying 'come in Mr Bartell, draw near to the fire.' Then he begins the Holmes story and it goes into radio-play form with himself, Rathbone and other actors. When Rathbone had enough of Holmes in 1947 they got an actor called Tom Conway to step in with Bruce. The shows were still very good. Conway sounds a lot like Rathbone. These are also easy and cheap to buy and they are on YouTube. Then you have John Stanley and Alfred Shirley. Again, not faithful to the originals, but worth a listen. And yes, Stanley is another Rathbone soundalike. Easy and cheap to buy and also available on YouTube. Another excellent series from the '50's was Sir John Gielgud as Holmes and Sir Ralph Richardson as Holmes. They didn't do as many episodes as the above but they are very good and again easy to get, cheap and also available on YouTube. Then in the '50's and '60's you we have the brilliant Carlton Hobbs as Holmes and Norman Shelley as Watson. I'm not certain but I think that they recorded the entire canon. These are fantastic. Easy to get and cheap and, you've guessed it, available on YouTube. Next comes probably the gold standard of radio Holmes. Started in the 80's with Clive Merrison as Holmes and Michael Williams (late husband of Judi Dench) as Watson. It's hard to see how this series can be topped. It's the radio equivalent of the Brett series. A must have! They completed the entire canon and then after Michael Williams died they decided to do The Further Adventures.....using non-Doyle stories and with the late Andrew Sachs (Manuel from Fawlty Towers) as Watson. And yes these are brilliant too. You can hear most on YouTube but these are more expensive to buy. It's a bit cheaper on eBay but nowhere near as cheap as the other series. A few other mentions. Barry Foster (who appeared on uk tv as Van Der Valk) played Holmes in a decent series. I think they are still on YouTube but I haven't been able to buy them!! Robert Hardy and Nigel Stock made an apparently very good short series. I've never heard these and you appear to only be able to get some of them on vinyl (I no longer have a record deck!) There was an older series with American actor Kevin McCarthy as Holmes. I've only managed to track down one though. The one problem that I have with this one though is that McCarthy doesn't manage to completely lose the American accent! Nothing wrong with an American accent by the way

Ive got it in the collection but it took a while to acquire it. It's easily available though. It's not bad actually and Baker makes a pretty decent Holmes. He wanted to play Holmes more but, for whatever reasons, it never happened. The main criticism that I've come across, and I have to agree with it, is that it goes a bit flat when Baker isn't on screen. As you know in 'The Hound,' there's a fair period at Baskerville Hall when Holmes is absent (lurking around on the moors) and those are the weaker parts. It's definately worth a watch. It definately beats the Stewart Grainger 'Hound!'

Obviously a very wise man! Rathbone was great though. It would have been interesting if he had have been given the same opportunities that were available for Brett. Authentic storylines, sets etc. I'm sure that it would have made a big difference because although we can judge Rathbone's Holmes it's hard to disassociate him from those storylines. I know that Bruce comes in for a lot of criticism too. I think it's a little unfair as Universal wanted a bit if light relief to offset and emphasise the coldly logical Holmes. Bruce was the perfect choice really. If you watch any other movie with Nigel Bruce in he plays pretty much the same role. A bit of an old duffer whose nevertheless likeable, kind, thoroughly decent and honourable etc. In short, everyone's favourite uncle. By all accounts he was liked by all in real life; as was Rathbone too in fact.

More money fo a poor old Holmes collector like me to spend

Hi all, Yeah Jack the Ripper forums can be a bit 'no prisoners.' This is an excellent forum as I've said and who knows, in a month or two it could be really busy, who knows. I was only wondering if I'd bored everyone to death with my Holmes nerdiness

Hi Arcadia, I definately don't have any claims to literary expertise and I fully accept that Doyle isn't considered, probably quite correctly, as a great writer as is say Joyce or Steinbeck but I think that he deserves a lot of merit. He wrote pretty decent historical fiction, ghost stories, science fiction, crime etc. He also wrote on military matters and war etc. And to top it all he created the single most enduring character in the history of fiction (not to mention Brigadier Gerard and Professor Challenger.) Whether you enjoy or not is obviously down to individual taste. I agree with you on Tolkien too. A genius as far as I'm concerned. I try to read The Lord Of The Rings every few years so I'm about due for a re-read. What an imagination?

For such an excellent forum, with excellent moderators, I wonder why so few people post on here? I come from 2 Jack the Ripper forums. I posted last night and in 3 hours there were 51 posts on the thread. Sometimes I post on here and get no reply or maybe one. I'm not blaming anyone. I just wonder why this is the case on such an excellent forum

Highly unlikely Carol

His character was certainly more 'restrained' than Brett's. I think that could give the impression of being older. Rathbone was also very charming with women even though it never crossed over into anything romantic. Brett's portrayal was usually polite but he definately saw women (and men) as parts of a puzzle that needed solving. He could also be dismissive. Even to Mrs Hudson though she could stand up to him. One of my favourite scenes is in 'The Cardboard Box.' It's Christmas and Mrs Hudson is moving a pot plant to make room for a Christmas tree. Holmes says (and this isn't an exact quote it's from memory) 'Mrs Hudson, how dare you move my aspidystra!' She turns to face him and says 'I do dare!' It's funny how taken aback Holmes is. You're right though. It's hard to imagine Brett's Holmes in a relationship. And you definately couldn't have imagined him going as far as Cumberbatch's Sherlock went with a woman just to get close to Milverton!

Maybe it's because it's an 'older' Holmes; in his fifties?

As this thread began about a doctor who actor playing Holmes has anyone seen The Hound Of The Baskervilles with Tom Baker?

Like the Laurie R. King books. It's strange though. Whenever I read Sherlock Holmes, whether by Doyle or other authors, I see and hear Brett as Holmes. Yet whenever I read King I see and hear Rathbone. I wonder why?

Apologies Arcadia I've only just noticed your post. According to Brett in an interview that he did on the tv show 'Wogan,' he did do his own vocals but had a bit of 'help' with the higher notes.

Yes. For eg. there's an English pianist called Sholto Kynoch. A Basil William Sholto Mackenzie, 2nd Baron Amulree. Sholto Ainslee Fine Art Profession born 1963 and Sholto Taylor a wheelchair rugby player born in 1972. So the last 2 could still be alive. The Scottish meaning apparently is 'sower.' You get the definate impression that anyone called Sholto probably had some kind of Scottish Heritage. As Doyle was Scottish it's probably from there that he came up with name.

I'm unsure how he arrived at that one Carol. As you know Sherlockians have, for years, been researching the stories and debating things like locations. For eg, in this book, in the section on 'The Blue Carbuncle,' he mentions two pubs which could have been Doyle's inspiration for 'The Alpha Tavern.' One is The Museum Tavern 51.518308,-0.126046. The other is The Plough 51.517752,-0.125604. I'm having fun with this book

I've just found out that 'Sholto' means 'she knows,' in Gaelic. A few names come up when you type it in but the people are all dead. You don't here of anyone these days using the name. Perhaps it's one of those names that will one day come back into usage?

That's a good way of putting it Carol. Bell fills the 'Holmes' role. I think there's a lot of Watson in Doyle. Everyone who knew him described him as a straight forward, honest, decent, generous, patriotic sort of man. A bit like the Nigel Bruce character without the 'bumbling' part. Doyle, though, would probably have liked to compare himself to Holmes. We know that he involved himself in miscarriages of justice.

It's all subjective of course. Perhaps it's because I never expected to be on a Sherlock Holmes forum where there are people that dont like the stories! It's hard to hear that the stories are poorly written when they have stood the test of time. Some may not find them intellectually stimulating but it's Doyle not Checkov that we're talking about here. They are adventure stories and many very intelligent men and women have made studies of them over the years.

I can't see how the Victorian Holmes can be considered boring in comparison or why things need to 'modernised' so that we can enjoy or appreciate them? We have become a 'short attention span' audience that require stories to be graphic and liberally punctuated with explosions to keep us interested. Do we need to update Shakespeare or Dickens or Thomas Hardy to make them palatable to modern sensibilities? Sherlock Holmes is the most enduring character in all of fiction. It survives and and endures in its original form without the need for modernisation or modification. We love (or some of us do) the stories because of the characters, because of the stories and because of the historical interest (and yes, romance) of the era. The original Holmes; Doyle's Holmes, is the cornerstone or well-spring for everything that followed and so is obviously not just the most important but the best as it came directly from Doyle, we see or hear what Doyle saw or heard. Whichever portrayal you prefer is irrelevant really. It's the stories. I love the Cumberbatch Holmes series but, in a way it panders to our 'modern deficiencies.' All we can see is now or tomorrow. We are losing the past. History is barely taught in schools. People on quiz shows have never heard of Cromwell or Wellington. 'Progress' carries a price to pay. The fact that it's the stories and the characters that endure is testament to the importance of the ACD stories. No matter what innovations follow Holmes and Watson will ALWAYS be Victorians.

Thanks for title change Carol. He puts the co-ordinates as 51.517932,-0.155587. Which in the book he says is No 31 Baker Street but on google maps street view it points toward numbers 30, 32 and 34. The top of the Google screen says the co-ordinates are number 30 which is a bathrooms/kitchen shop called Hyde Park. I'll have a look at a few more locations later. If there are any locations you'd like to know just post a message and I'll put them up

I'm unsure if this is the correct place to start a thread for anyone to recommend books? I had a book arrive today which 'might' be of interest to anyone a sad as i am

Thank you Aprilmay

The whole series is based on Doyle as a young doctor who helps Doyle solve crimes. In the pilot Doyle's 'love interest' is killed by Dr. Thomas Neil Cream who, in real life, was known as the Lambeth Poisoner. He's also one of the poorer 'suspects' as Jack The Ripper. The story goes that just as he was about to be hung the hangman said that he heard him say 'I am Jack The .......' Unfortunately for anyone who wants to propose Cream as the Ripper we know that he was detained in Joliet Prison in Chicago at the time of the murders. There's no mention of Holmes in the stories but there's one scene where Doyle and Bell are in a shop following up a clue when one of them, I can't remember which, picks up a deerstalker hat.

Has anyone ever met anyone called Sholto? It would have been a bit weird if they had called him Sholto instead of Greg

It's interesting that it seems that Brett's portrayal 'grew' on Dame Jean. There's an interview with her where she's asked about the best portrayals and she said that, at the time, she felt that Rathbone was the most accurate. I think that she was slightly put off at first by Brett's idiocyncracies. She also felt that Holmes would never have been rude or dismissive. I seem to remember that she may have mentioned Wontner too who, in my opinion, was the first great 'talking' Holmes. She also met Brett at least once. Her opinion of his portrayal must have grown in time.