Are the terms "Geek" and "Nerd" still derogatory?

[Undead Medic]

An article on the BBC news website caught my eye and got me wondering:

 

Campaigners in Sweden are trying to force a dictionary to change its definition of "nerd". But after two decades of "re-appropriation" has "nerd" - and its sister word "geek" - now completely lost its derogatory connotations?

• Do the terms "Nerd" and "Geek" offend you, or have you proudly reclaimed them as a badge of honour?
• Do you even identify as a nerd or geek, are these descriptions relevant to how you see yourself or are they merely meaningless stereotypes?
• Have the tables been turned, is being clever now seen as something to aspire to rather than something to be ashamed of?
• Does the geek/nerd stereotype of a non-sporty socially awkward teen with no girlfriend still persist in these more enlightened times?
• Are more females identifying as geeks/nerds today or have they always existed and prejudices have traditionally ignored their existence?

Your thoughts on the subject?

[aely]

I would say nerd still has some derogatory connotations, but it's used with more affection I think than it used to be. As for Geek, I don't find that derogatory at all. I self identify as a geek - a Goth Geek and Proud to be exact - and I associate with other people who identify as geeks, so it's acutally quite normal. I think a geeky person would rather associate with other geeky people as a) they'll have more in common with the geeks than the mundanes and there'll be more chance of intelligent conversation even on topics with which the geek might not be geeky about than otherwise.

 

There is one guy who used to work bank night shifts as a healthcare assistant on my ward who is a Whovian, Sherlockian and Blakes 7 fan - I kind of used to feel sorry for the other person on shift who worked with us as I think the conversation must have sounded like a foreign language. Apart from the odd person like that I barely speak to the people I work with about anything that isn't work or medical related - they don't want to hear about goth weekends or conventions or what the latest theory of "how Sherlock did it" is and I don't want to talk about X Factor, Corrie or the latest dreadful reality show. They have never heard of any of the bands I like, so I can't talk music; they aren't interested in computers or science (beyond what's relevant for work) or ancient history. We talk about weather, scenery and pets a lot...

 

I do think more females are identifying as geeks nowadays, or at least are more vocal about it - geeks can be feminists too. I think geeks are now more likely to accept that a girl is just as geeky as they are and isn't just hanging around because no-one else will have anything to do with her - 2 minutes of conversation will prove that.

 

As for stereotypes and how they're perceived - I'm not the right person to ask as I've been a subcultural person for over 20 years in my own right and my family are essentially all geeks themselves. Individuality was always encouraged at home and "because everyone else has" was never deemed a good enough reason to get something/do something. I'm not so sure about my niece - I think she's rebelling by trying to be 'normal' but all 4 of my nephews are geeky (OK, half of them also have Aspergers in varying degrees which predisposes to a certain degree of geekiness I think). It doesn't hurt that traditionally geeky type things have become mainstream over a number of years - the success of Harry Potter being an example.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm from the pre-nerd generation, myself, so have seen the word's entire life span to date (though from something of a distance). My impression is that it's one of those words that it's OK to pin on yourself, or on other members of your personal circle -- but it's not necessarily OK to call someone else a nerd.

 

I'm not saying that there weren't any nerds when I was in high school. Looking back, I'm sure that my friends and I would have qualified easily (we used to pass notes to each other during class -- in Latin). We didn't have any particular term for ourselves, but our classmates sometimes called us "brains" (which was often kind of a put-down, especially as applied to girls).

 

"Geek" (in this sense) seems to be an even newer term, and I'm still not sure quite what it means -- something like a nerd, but with particular competence, knowledge, or interest in a specific field?

[aely]

Urban Dictionary has this to say...

 

The term "geek" originally referred to the carnival performers whose act consisted of biting the heads off chickens and eating glass. Over time it came to be applied to anyone who got paid to do work considered odd or bizarre by mainstream society.

 

The term now enjoys a special status within the technical community, particularly among particularly knowledgable computer programmers. To identify oneself as a "geek" indicates a recognition that most people still consider programming computers to be a bizarre act, along with a certain fierce satisfaction in being very good at their inglorious profession.

 

That most software geeks now easily earn twice as much as the average laborer just sweetens their defiant embrace of the term.

 

Note: Unlike the word "nerd," which is always pejorative, "geek" often carries a positive connotation when used by one of the group. The use of the term by outsiders is considered insulting.

 

Apparently a geek has more social skills than a nerd, while a dork is lacking in both technical and social skills.

 

If you're familiar with the terms 'Boffin' or 'Anorak' I would say a Boffin is more equivalent to a geek and and anorak more equivalent to a nerd. Boffins generally generate more respect than anoraks (Brian Cox is a Boffin. Kind of).

[Carol the Dabbler]

Last I heard, "dork" was an insult, no question!

 

"Boffin" was used in "Reichenbach" so I looked it up. "Geek" was not used in the definition. but I can see that it would fit.

 

"Anorak" I've seen used here and there in British things. I have the impression it means something like anti-social weirdo, and can see how you might think that makes it similar to "nerd" -- but -- hmm, let's see -- nerds are strange but harmless, whereas judging by my interpretation (possibly faulty) of "anorak" I think I might find them kinda scary. Am I way off base with that?

[aely]

I would say there's an overlap - most anoraks are harmless IMO but as they tread closer to the line of obsession without brakes on it its very easy for them to exhibit what can be thought of as creepy or stalkerish behaviour. That's just me, though - and if it wasn't for the fact that I like people and socail interaction I potentially could have been branded an anorak long ago!

[Undead Medic]

In my experience "Anorak" tends to be applied to people that mainstream society finds "sad" (as in synonymous with "Pathetic") Trainspotters are one stereotypical group to whom this description is often directed. The inference being that they are bookish and boring and unhealthily obsessed with something no "normal" person could possibly find interesting.

In my opinion the term implies a narrow-minded and sad attitude in those who use it more than in those to whom it is used to refer.

[Brainy]

I never knew 'anorak' is used for 'geeks' or know-it-alls in (british) English.

 

It's funny for me, because in German an 'Anorak' simply is a piece of clothing. Something like a windbreaker.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, I believe that's the original meaning in the UK, too. Apparently that sort of person often wears such a garment -- or at least that was the common perception. It's sort of like referring to corporate executives as "the suits" (which is an American expression, though perhaps British as well).

[Banshee]

Well, I personally am very happy to define myself as a geek... It may be a case of reclaiming the word back, but I like it

[SherLOCKED221]

I don't know if "Nerd" or "Geek" is an insult as I wouldn't use it like that however,

"Brainy is the New Sexy!"

I love a good nerd/geek!!! (to me they're the same thing)

Normal people are boring. I hate reality TV too! I'm not normal but I'm no nerd or geek, but they're interesting and that makes life interesting!

[aely]

Some people might argue that if you're participating in discussion on a fan forum, you're automatically a geek of the fannish persuasion.

Me, I'm a bit of a science geek too.

[SherLOCKED221]

Oh well.

I don't think I'm a geek/nerd.

Just a sufferer of some healthy obsession.

[aely]

Nowt wrong with a bit of healthy obsession.

[SherLOCKED221]

*laughs*

It's good to have a outlet for it, i.e Sherlock and TV in general.

[Carol the Dabbler]

The term "geek" originally referred to the carnival performers whose act consisted of biting the heads off chickens and eating glass. Over time it came to be applied to anyone who got paid to do work considered odd or bizarre by mainstream society. The term now enjoys a special status within the technical community, particularly among particularly knowledgable computer programmers. .... The use of the term by outsiders is considered insulting.

 

I had a weird experience recently. Late one night, I was unwinding by checking a couple of forums, when I came across an interview where Martin Freeman had this to say about being in The Hobbit:

 

"I’m geek royalty now," he said with a laugh. "That’s the main responsibility. It’s not playing Bilbo, it’s my responsibility as a geek prince."

I've been looking forward to a Hobbit movie since -- well, since before Freeman was born. So my first reaction to his statement was a half-amused "Hey, who are you calling a geek?!" But then -- and this is how MSG affects me, and I'd had a soyburger for supper, so I suspect that's what did it -- I gradually felt less amused and more insulted, till I had just about lost all interest in the movie.

 

Generally, when people complain about something a celebrity has said, I think they're making something out of nothing. Of course, this time it was my ox that had been gored, and just when the MSG was messing with my head. (Even so, you'd think that I'd be more tolerant of accidental insults, seeing as how I have a real talent for delivering much more impressive ones myself!)

 

So yeah, I'd say that "geek" can still be considered derogatory at times. By morning, my good humor was back in place. But maybe now I'll be a bit more understanding when people over-react to such things. Maybe they're just having a bad day.

 

Added: Apparently I did not state the above very clearly. Please see my next post (# 21) for my attempt at clarification.

[SherLOCKED221]

A Geek is just someone who is obsessed with one (or more) subject/s. If you think you fit the description embrace it! OWN IT! I believe that’s what Martin Freeman intended. We are who we are, so get over it! *laughs* (I hope that one isn't offensive too, but I’m not one who is easily offended)

[chironsgirl]

Sigh . I think I am a dork. I have at times been a drama club geek. I have been a band class geek. A Torchwood geek. But at the moment I am just dorky.

[aely]

Torchwood fan? Definitely more of a Geek than a Dork.

[besleybean]

I was told that geek wasn't derogatory, just means smart. Nerd to me isn't derogatory either. But dork is.

[Carol the Dabbler]

A Geek is just someone who is obsessed with one (or more) subject/s. If you think you fit the description embrace it! OWN IT! I believe that’s what Martin Freeman intended. We are who we are, so get over it! *laughs* (I hope that one isn't offensive too, but I’m not one who is easily offended)

 

Oh, dear, apparently I didn't express myself very clearly before. I see that I wrote my prior post at 4 a.m. -- maybe that'll teach me to go to bed!

 

I have no reason to think that Martin Freeman is a mean-spirited individual, so I had no intention of implying that he actually meant to insult anyone. My apologies (especially to Mr. Freeman, should he ever come across this).

 

My basic point was supposed to be that people who seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill (as I clearly was during my MSG-induced depression) may be otherwise perfectly rational individuals who just happen to be having a bad day. For example, I *am* over it, and have been since the following morning, thank goodness. (Otherwise, yeah, your advice coulda seemed just the teeniest bit offensive. )

 

I suppose I also had a sub-point hiding in there, something like, people don't always take things the way we intend when we say them. But we all know that, so never mind!

 

Lastly, I might as well explain why I ate the accursed MSG in the first place. Over the holidays, a relative was thoughtful enough to make a pot of vegetarian chili for us. There were a few bits of soyburger in it, but I appreciated the gesture and didn't say anything -- hoping that such a small amount of hydrolyzed protein wouldn't bother me. So I learned something, which is good.

[SherLOCKED221]

Yes, as I said I tend to offend without meaning it as I write with a tone in my voice which people can't hear!

I try and avoid confusion by writing and explaining everything!

Plus this tendency I also am not easily offended therefore I don't realise my words could be offensive to someone else.

My apologies in advance! (I also tend to write here while tired!)

 

Back to what you said, I do hate people who make mountains out of molehills.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, me too (most of what you just said), which is why that experience was such a light-bulb moment for me.

[Shangas]

How derogatory they are depends on how derogatory the receiving party believes it to be, or allows it to be. I don't think that such terms as are the subject of this thread, to be derogatory, or at least not as what they once were. I think to a certain extent, words which are "offensive" become so because of denial.

 

You would find the word 'nerd' offensive if you were trying to hide the fact that you were such. And so it would seem like an accusation. if that makes any sense. On the other hand, there are those who accept, or admit, or even embrace that they are a *whatever*, and so are unlikely, or are less likely, to find offense in such terms.

[aely]

I get 'goth' yelled at me as an insult (not the same as geek I know, but...) and it freaks people out when I give them a cheerful smile and say "Yeah, I know, great innit?" or words to that effect.