The other brother

[nicksugrue]

In the tv series, could Moriarty be the other brother? The middle child, who went missing before Sherlock was born, and Mycroft only found out who he was after he had captured and tortured him, ( dna sample). It could explain why Mycroft let him go. Moriarty hates Sherlock because he sees in him the life he should of had. Plausible?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Welcome to the Forum, nicksugrue!  And a very thoughtful first post.  Something like that could be plausible, in this series, yeah, why not. Will be interesting to see what it really is.

[Caya]

Hello nicksugrue and welcome to the forum!

 

As this is partially about season 3, we've moved the thread to the appropriate forum.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hello, nicksugrue -- welcome to Sherlock Forum! 

 

I'm sure we'll be hearing more about that "other" brother in Series 4, and I have a sneaking suspicion that you're on the right track.

 

[T.o.b.y]

If he were the third Holmes' brother, that would at least explain why he is so much like Sherlock, has similar mental powers etc. Only why would Sherlock not know about him? He certainly never seemed to have heard of Moriarty before A Study in Pink and he didn't recognize him when he saw him. I can well imagine Mycroft "getting rid of" a brother, but so early in their lives that Sherlock wouldn't even remember him? How would that have worked?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  If that is what is going on, Sherlock could have been to young to remember him, as a child. And people do change as they grow up so with a name change and no one talking about another sibling, it could actually be pretty easy.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Maybe the "other" brother was considered to be "defective" in some way (violent?), and had been sent away to an institution by the parents, like Raymond in "Rain Man"?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Do we know for certain that "Red Beard" was the dog?

 

If the other brother was actually sent away, perhaps that happened when Sherlock was very young, and all he remembered was his baby-talk name for him (again, like Raymond in "Rain Man").

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Isn't that what Sherlock calls the Irish Setter in the mind palace scene? Red Beard?   Hhhhmmmm  Sherlock, Irish for "Bright Hair". Moriarty, Irish with a Irish accent.....an Irish Setter as a pet.....is it me? Or does this set up a pattern?

[T.o.b.y]

Yes, he does call the dog "Redbeard". But now you put it that way, Carol, there is rather an Irish theme in the family. And then the mother having written a book the title of which obviously comes from Moriarty' work in the original... They want us to get ideas, hm? Which of course doesn't necessarily mean they would be the right ones.

 

Does anybody know what Sherlock's mother's name is? Did it say on the book?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Hhhmmmm....I don't remember seeing a name. Doesn't mean there wasn't one though.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Actually, it was Fox who mentioned the Irish connection.

 

But I've just remembered that (in "Scandal") Mycroft told John that when Sherlock was a kid, he wanted to be a pirate.  So maybe he played pirate with the other brother -- maybe Sherlock was "Blackbeard" and the other one was "Redbeard"?  And then after the other one was sent away, they got a puppy, and Sherlock named him after his departed brother.

 

Doesn't Holmes mention at some point that his mother was related to the French artist Vernet?

 

[T.o.b.y]

Doesn't Holmes mention at some point that his mother was related to the French artist Vernet?

 

Yes, in "The Greek Interpreter". But did they stick with that on "Sherlock"? And do we know what her first name is, there?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

According to Ariane, There are Initials on the book that Mummy wrote: M. L. Holmes.

[Zain]

Moriarty is the Anglicized version of an Irish name that means "sea worth" or "navigator" as far as I know.

Just to add to the theme...

[Carol the Dabbler]

Doesn't Holmes mention at some point that his mother was related to the French artist Vernet?

 

Yes, in "The Greek Interpreter". But did they stick with that on "Sherlock"? And do we know what her first name is, there?

They haven't contradicted it yet, and I'll be very surprised if they ever do.

 

Oops -- I just looked up the quote, and Holmes actually refers to his "grandmother, who was the sister of Vernet, the French artist."  That could be either grandmother (and since he's just been talking about his "ancestors," I rather suspect he means Grandmother Holmes).  So we apparently know nothing for certain about Holmes's mother.

 

[Sherlock_luvr]

I must be the only one hoping Moriarty doesn't turn out to be a 'missing' Holmes brother!

[T.o.b.y]

No, no, you're not. I'm not hoping he will at all!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hoping and expecting are often two different things entirely!

 

I think most of us are on this thread to try and figure out what Moftiss have in mind.

 

[Sherlock_luvr]

I'm hoping the writers will be more creative with the 'easy out' of making Moriarty a Holmes boy. I've come to expect greatness from them and if they go this route it will be hugely disappointing.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well -- even if they take "the easy way out" -- they may put some wild new twist on it!

 

I can't resist speculating, but I don't have much hope of guessing right anymore. 

 

[Zain]

Well, same for me. It's more like... making an educated guess ( or most often, contribute to the brainstorming).

I don't think they'll make him a third Holmes brother per sé. Too obvious, too cliché. I suspect, however, that we'll get to see a sibling of some sorts.

Mycroft clearly references to another sibling, gender not disclosed.

There have been enough parallels drawn to go with the idea that Moriarty fits the bill.

 

We got two hints regarding "Mommy Holmes" - she's a mathematician, and she wrote a book about asteroids. Two facts that are in canon associated with James Moriarty. If there's some connection and it wasn't just a red herring for the Fandom, then it's her that theories have to focus on.

 

With that setting, there are several problems to tackle.

Knowledge; Sherlock seems unaware of another sibling, while Mycroft mentions it once. No loving relationship, and I somehow cannot fathom that there was another sibling when they grew up. His behavior towards Sherlock is like a mother hen clucking over its chick. He always keeps an eye on him, and that seems to be anything but a recent development. When they grew up, there were only two children in the house, and Mycroft never spend time with that sibling. (They always thought Sherlock was an idiot until they met other children - no other child to compare with)

Age; I find it hard to place JIm anywhere but between Sherlock and Mycroft. That makes it difficult to imagine that Mycroft missed the event. Jim would have to be given away right after birth or in early childhood. Human memory sets in with 4 years so he'd have to be nearer Mycroft's age than Sherlock's (I hope I didn't miss any direct references to the characters' ages...). The Holmes parents later on had Sherlock, so finding a reason why they would give Jim away is a bit tricky. Can't have been because he showed strange behavior as suggested before: too young. They apparently weren't opposed to another child in their life since they kept Sherlock. Only reason I can come up with right now would be that "Mommy Holmes" carried a child for somebody who couldn't or she had a child that wasn't her husband's.

 

I find it hard to create a scenario that doesn't border on cliché. 

[Slithytove]

How old is Jim supposed to be? Is he older than Sherlock? I know ACD's Moriarty was old but Jim seems pretty young. If he is older than Sherlock, do you think the age difference would be enough for him to display seriously disturbed behaviour - trying to kill his baby brother - resulting in his hospitalisation before Sherlock was old enough to remember him? Bearing in mind that we recall very little that happens before the age of 3.

 

As I have said before, I think one of the main problems with this idea is that Mummy & Daddy Holmes seem too nice to have a child institutionalised and then never refer to him again.

 

I quite like the idea that "the other one" was a sister. I wonder what could have happened to her...

[Slithytove]

Btw, that was supposed to be " e.g. trying to kill his baby brother", as obviously there are other things he could have done which could have resulted in him being sectioned (e.g. like trying to kill big brother Mycroft....)

[Carol the Dabbler]

I don't believe they've ever mentioned anyone's age on the show.  In canon, Mycroft is seven years older than Sherlock, and as you say, Professor Moriarty is older.  In real life, Gatiss is nearly ten years older than Cumberbatch, and Cumberbatch and Scott are virtually the same age.

 

Memory kicks in at a variable age, say somewhere between two and five.  However, adults can influence young children to interpret their memories in an "acceptable" manner.  For example, Henry Knight remembers his father being torn apart by "a gigantic hound," and the younger brother in Rain Man thinks he had an imaginary playmate.  We don't know what (if anything) Sherlock remembers about a third sibling.