CBS's "Elementary"

[Mr. Holmes]

 

For those who keep whining about 'why only 3 episodes?' and 'hurry up with the next series'. I'll say this: This is what you get when you have a bunch of different writers churning out 20+ episodes a year to meet demand. Now you really wouldn't want that to happen with 'Sherlock' would you?

 

No, but to be fair there are shows like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, and The Wire that air 10+ episodes a year, and are at least equal to Sherlock in quality.   

 

There's no point in comparing Elementary and Sherlock, because despite being inspired by the same source material, they couldn't be more different in approach and ambition.  Elementary like you point out is in the standard of a mainstream US Network show, where as Sherlock is more of a series of short films than a television show.  

[Carol the Dabbler]

...  there are shows like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, and The Wire that air 10+ episodes a year, and are at least equal to Sherlock in quality.

 

I'm not familiar with any of those programs, so I need to ask how long is each episode?

 

Each Sherlock episode is a true 90 minutes, or a total of four and a half hours per series.  While Elementary is nominally a one-hour program, roughly a quarter of that goes to commercials, so that each actual episode is about half as long as a Sherlock episode (amazing how much they manage to pack into that 3/4 hour, though!).

 

[Mr. Holmes]

 

...  there are shows like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, and The Wire that air 10+ episodes a year, and are at least equal to Sherlock in quality.

 

I'm not familiar with any of those programs, so I need to ask how long is each episode?

 

Each Sherlock episode is a true 90 minutes, or a total of four and a half hours per series.  While Elementary is nominally a one-hour program, roughly a quarter of that goes to commercials, so that each actual episode is about half as long as a Sherlock episode (amazing how much they manage to pack into that 3/4 hour, though!).

 

 

 

Breaking Bad and Mad Men were on AMC, where they're about the same - 47 minutes ish.  The Wire was HBO, so a full hour with no ads. 

 

But still when you have 10+ episodes, one season of that length is still more total running time than for Sherlock. 

[wildwoodflower]

 

 

...  there are shows like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, and The Wire that air 10+ episodes a year, and are at least equal to Sherlock in quality.

 

I'm not familiar with any of those programs, so I need to ask how long is each episode?

 

Each Sherlock episode is a true 90 minutes, or a total of four and a half hours per series.  While Elementary is nominally a one-hour program, roughly a quarter of that goes to commercials, so that each actual episode is about half as long as a Sherlock episode (amazing how much they manage to pack into that 3/4 hour, though!).

 

 

 

Breaking Bad and Mad Men were on AMC, where they're about the same - 47 minutes ish.  The Wire was HBO, so a full hour with no ads. 

 

But still when you have 10+ episodes, one season of that length is still more total running time than for Sherlock. 

 

I'm a little surprised that anyone who watches television can be unaware of Breaking Bad or Mad Men. Or the Wire.which is one of the best series ever made.  Breaking Bad is probably the finest series ever made, Having the time to tell a story over the course of a series run leads to more complex storytelling and richer, deeper character development and arcs.

 

I watch Elementary for Jonny Lee. He is a fabulous Sherlock Holmes,

 

 

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm a little surprised that anyone who watches television can be unaware of Breaking Bad or Mad Men. Or the Wire.which is one of the best series ever made.  Breaking Bad is probably the finest series ever made, Having the time to tell a story over the course of a series run leads to more complex storytelling and richer, deeper character development and arcs.

I didn't say I am unaware of them, just that I am not familiar with them. And I am basically NOT "anyone who watches television," since just about the only broadcasts I've watched in, say, the past ten years have been maybe half a season of The Office (American version), all of Sherlock, and most of Elementary. And we don't have cable or satellite service, so I couldn't watch shows on either AMC or HBO in any case. (In answer to your next question, we mostly watch DVDs.)

 

[aely]

I've never watched The Mentalist, Breaking Bad, Mad Men or The Wire. I do know about them, but they've never interested me. I have enough trouble keeping up with the shows I do watch.

 

In the UK we don't have 20+ episodes per season, we generally have 5, 6, 8, 10, 12 or 13 and that goes for anything made over here for our audience and each episode is 45-60 minutes. Bearing that in mind 3 episodes of 90 minutes is pretty damn near equivalent to a full (short) series in the UK.

 

I started watching Elementary as I was interested in seeing how CBS would deal with a female Watson and a modern Sherlock (and because I rather like Lucy Liu) not because it is a genre of show I usually follow. I was hooked by the characters and have continued to watch.

 

The only other shows of similar type that I watch (and then not that frequently with some) are NCIS, Castle and Sherlock. Oh, and The Fall (which I watched for Gillian Anderson and will catch up on S2 when it's made and all - that was only 5 episodes long).

[Ruthyone]

UK V US

 

 

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/tubetalk/a406665/sherlock-vs-elementary-how-the-us-drama-compares-to-the-uk-hit.html

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I don't' know. On the Sherlock Holmes Fan page on Facebook, one poster who likes and watches both shows made the comment that BBC "Sherlock" was just a modern rewrite of the Doyle stories, which it was always meant to be, while "Elementary" was and I quote: "The BBC is just an update of the canon. "Elementary" is about a woman who's hired to look after a nut job called Sherlock Holmes (Whose name just happens to BE Sherlock Holmes this time). End Quote.

 

  Then he went on to post this and I quote: "I'm just saying "Elementary" has different roots."  End Quote

 

  All through the post he insisted that, in his point of view that "Elementary" was a spin off of the crime show "Ironside".

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well, that would explain why Sherlock uses a wheelchair.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 I did try to point that out, but he was quite adamant.

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

 

  All through the post he insisted that, in his point of view that "Elementary" was a spin off of the crime show "Ironside".

 

Did he say how he'd reached that conclusion?  Or which character corresponded to which?  Or any other such details?

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 Here is the link to that conversation.

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=485045041607699&id=305457102899828&aymt_tip=1

[Carol the Dabbler]

Thanks, Fox.  I believe he's saying that House is based on Ironside (or, to repeat his words -- I think "House" is a medical version of "Ironside").  Having never seen House myself, I have no idea how credible that might be.

 

[Mr. Holmes]

I can understand if he sees stronger parallels in something else than Sherlock Holmes, but you have to be acting deliberately contrarian to say you don't think House was based on Sherlock Holmes.  

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Apparently, he just wasn't seeing the "House"/"Sherlock Holmes" connection, or doesn't want to just like on "Elementary" he said that the main character just happened to be named "Sherlock Holmes". So maybe he is just one of those people if say "Black" they're going to say "White".

[Carol the Dabbler]

He's not the only person who's saying that the characters in Elementary are rather loosely based on Conan Doyle.  In fact, a number of people have said basically that right here in this thread, and I'm not going to argue.  Even Jeremy Brett's Holmes deviated from canon occasionally, so it's a matter of degree, and each of us will have a different opinion on that.

 

I obviously can't comment specifically on House, but if I may draw an analogy -- Moftiss have said that "The Blind Banker" is loosely based on "The Dancing Men" -- but a number of us on this forum believe that it actually draws a great deal more from "The Sign of the Four."  So it would seem that a pastiche can have more than one basis.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

And I can appreciate that for sure.

[Carol the Dabbler]

We got our Season 2 DVD, and tonight we watched the second episode, "Solve for X," which involves the murders of two mathematicians who had been working to solve the "P versus NP" problem:

 

The P versus NP problem is a major unsolved problem in computer science. Informally, it asks whether every problem whose [solvability] can be quickly verified by a computer can also be quickly solved by a computer.

 

The plot was based on the idea that -- since computer encryption is essentially a mathematical "problem" -- proving the P versus NP answer to be "yes" would enable a competent programmer to write hacker code to defeat any encryption algorithm.  I have some background in both math and computers (though not in this particular area), and I believe that premise to be complete balderdash.  Proving that a problem can be solved tells you neither how to solve it, nor what the solution is.

 

Though this sort of vast oversimplification is very common on television, I believe that Sherlock has consistently dealt with such matters much more realistically.  For example, Moriarty's "computer key code," which at first appears to be just another typical television fallacy, turns out to be a hoax.

 

[Pawse]

I saw a clip of Elementary - I wasn't impressed.

[Redbeard]

Same here, Pawse.  I wasn't impressed either.  For me I was put off by the characters right away - Sherlock Holmes was all right, but I missed the quirky manic behavior of both Benedict Cumberbatch and Jeremy Brett.  The others - Joan, Mycroft - I was just not impressed at all.  It all seemed so inferior and the characters were just too different.  I wonder how I would have reacted if I hadn't seen Sherlock first...Oh well I don't think I will be able to get into this one now.

[Pawse]

Same here, Pawse. I wasn't impressed either. For me I was put off by the characters right away - Sherlock Holmes was all right, but I missed the quirky manic behavior of both Benedict Cumberbatch and Jeremy Brett. The others - Joan, Mycroft - I was just not impressed at all. It all seemed so inferior and the characters were just too different. I wonder how I would have reacted if I hadn't seen Sherlock first...Oh well I don't think I will be able to get into this one now.

I know exactly what you mean - the characters put me off within seconds.

[Carol the Dabbler]

We're about halfway through the Season 2 DVD at the moment, and are enjoying it.  It's clearly not trying to be Sherlock, so we watch it on its own terms.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

And yet they do seem to use elements from the Sherlock or the canon but with such a spin that unless it hits you in the face one can miss it. Noticed that in "Art In The Blood". But so much of the magic and dynamic of the Holmes/Watson relationship is missing in Elementary. At least I am missing it anyway. And this romance thing between Joan and Mycroft. What....Joan and Sherlock can't be soul mates without having a sexual relationship?  Seems this is the flip side of the same discussion we've been having about John and Sherlock . 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Even the title "Art in the Blood" is from canon, right?  (When Holmes is talking about his grandmother, Vernet's sister, I believe he says something like, "Art in the blood can take the strangest forms" (and Sherlock says that at the end of the episode).

 

And they've used bits from "Silver Blaze" and "The Cardboard Box," just off the top of my head.

 

[Shadow Dweller]

Interesting snippet about the female role in fiction: http://www.themarysue.com/natalie-dormer-antiheroes/