CBS's "Elementary"

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Thank you itslikelectiveamnesia it's nice to know I'm not alone in this style of quirkiness.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Of course, the British shows that are aired here in the US are presumably just the cream of the crop. There must be quite a few not-so-great British shows as well. (I remember Benny Hill ....)

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I remember Benny Hill. A little......well....racy....yes....but it could be funny. A real side splitter.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hmm, never could stomach it myself, but of course that's a matter of personal preferences.

 

I know what you mean when you talk about preferring British programs, but I believe that most of what we see in the US are the top BBC programs. With all the shows on multiple channels in the UK, there are surely some that we should be grateful we never get over here.

 

Just sayin'.

[Undead Medic]

With all the shows on multiple channels in the UK, there are surely some that we should be grateful we never get over here.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Well we do have more than our fair share of awful reality TV and "Talent" shows. Oh and some of our soaps are diabolical!

In my opinion the worst in British TV tends to fall under the light entertainment banner. Also there are a few of our comedy shows that I find painfully unfunny, but that's a matter of taste I suppose.

[Carol the Dabbler]

"Reality" television -- excuse me while I go over in the corner and vomit quietly ....

 

 

 

(Hey, how come there's no "vomit" smiley?)

[Undead Medic]

"Reality" television -- excuse me while I go over in the corner and vomit quietly ....

 

 

 

(Hey, how come there's no "vomit" smiley?)

 

How about:

[Carol the Dabbler]

Oh, dear -- I thought I was joking!

 

Not bad, though!

[aely]

I found this one...

[aely]

After which you might need one of these...

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

LOL....you guys are tttoooo funny!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Cute, aely! (Though I think Tim's is more, umm, evocative.)

 

 

And dare I add:

 

(My bad!)

[wildwoodflower]

I officially declare my love of Elementary - (which in no way lessens my love of the BBC Sherlock, it's only that Elementary is not merely the placeholder in my heart for Sherlock but rather it now actually has a place in my heart ).

 

Kelly

[aely]

I officially declare my love of Elementary

Jolly Good. I'm right there with you.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Me too. I like both shows very much, but in different ways.

 

A couple of times so far, when Elementary has rerun an episode, I glanced at the opening segment, said "Oh, that one," and decided I'd prefer a nice bath. I can't even imagine that happening with Sherlock. Just hearing a few notes of the theme music is enough to trigger my addiction.

 

On the other hand, Elementary's plots are much better crafted than some of Sherlock's. The one last night was a beaut. (And -- for a change -- they didn't show one single pool of blood. Yay!)

[Carol the Dabbler]

I love Clyde! Let's hope he stays out of the soup!

 

 

And a mere two months later, Clyde is back (helping Sherlock to solve the case)!  Yay!

[wildwoodflower]

The Two Irenes.  We're about to be introduced to Elementary's Irene Adler via flashbacks (or so we read in TVGuide) and I was thinking about the difference between the two relationships - BBC Sherlock and CBS Elementary.

 

In Elementary we have been told that Irene and Sherlock were in a relationship for seven months before she was "murdered".  It has been implied that he was in love with her (he says 'smitten" and doesn't respond when Joan corrects him and calls it love). Although this is certainly more in keeping with the modern Western world where people hook up, it's also part of a well worn trope used in American telly. We don't know for sure about Irene yet, as we haven't seen her or how they interact, only we can assume she is really very clever - she would have to be for him to decide to be with her exclusively for that seven months.

 

In Sherlock the character's interest in Irene is, at first, very clearly based on the intriguing mystery of her being, and on her superior intellect. I think there is also a physical attraction, but that comes later and is not the motivating force of his interest in her. He may not even believe he has a physical attraction to her.The implication/accusation of Sherlock being a virgin might be used for its impact as an insult (which he only finds mildly annoying because he either knows it's not true or places no value on it).  But it's clear Mycroft thinks he knows the truth of it, at least the truth of Sherlock's inexperience with relationships or sexual attraction).

 

Although I like the modern take on Sherlock Holmes in Elementary, I think BBC Sherlock's take on this is the braver storytelling choice. It doesn't rely on current tropes (oh no! the flawed hero's one true love was brutally murdered and hence he's all effed up and wiil/ must find her killer and avenge her death blah blah). Although I think Elementary might subvert the trope in some way, it still won't be fresh or challenging to the writer's or the actor or the audience. JLM is a great actor and will make us feel stuff, but it's nothing new.  Whereas in BBC Sherlock there is rich depth of motivation and history implied in the actor's performance that we can only guess at and speculate upon. It's partly why the show generates so much fanfiction.

 

Until we meet the Elementary irene we can't do a lot of comparisons as to how the character is written and played compared to Laura Pulver's version. But I'm kind of excited to get to do it.

 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Very well said, wildwoodflower. I just don't get the jolt from the CBS Elementary that I do from the BBC Sherlock. I do try, but it's just not there for me. It will be interesting what they do for Irene in this US version.

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

 

I just don't get the jolt from the CBS Elementary that I do from the BBC Sherlock.version.

 

Jolt, fix -- yeah, me too.  I definitely get some sort of visceral thing from Sherlock that I don't from Elementary.  I keep trying to analyze it, but not much luck so far.

 

[wildwoodflower]

Re: the two Irenes and television tropes. BBC Sherlock uses the same one (i.e. the love interest of the hero is murdered, hero loses it) but subverts it neatly. Sherlock takes no action to find whoever killed her. He (apparently) mopes. He could be depressed. His family and friends think this is likely (danger times) Sherlock MAY feel respsonsible, he MAY feel loss of what could have been - but all this is specualtion because we don't know for certain how he feels, we only see other characters observing his behavior and speculating on it.  Sherlock's only overt reaction is to compose music. It's all the more intriguing for it.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

(i.e. the love interest of the hero is murdered, hero loses it) but subverts it neatly. Sherlock takes no action to find whoever killed her. He (apparently) mopes. He could be depressed. His family and friends think this is likely (danger times) Sherlock MAY feel respsonsible, he MAY feel loss of what could have been - but all this is specualtion because we don't know for certain how he feels, we only see other

Or it could be he took no action because he felt that since she, in her own words, "misbehaves" that she was responsible for her own demise. He knew that the American CIA was willing to threaten and maybe even kill people to get the phone, so who else was there out in the big wide world that would be willing to do the same?

 

He told Mycroft that the phone was her get out of jail card. Without it she was in nothing but trouble. And the CIA were onto her before he was. He and John just happened to be at her house in time to save her from them.

[wildwoodflower]

 

(i.e. the love interest of the hero is murdered, hero loses it) but subverts it neatly. Sherlock takes no action to find whoever killed her. He (apparently) mopes. He could be depressed. His family and friends think this is likely (danger times) Sherlock MAY feel respsonsible, he MAY feel loss of what could have been - but all this is specualtion because we don't know for certain how he feels, we only see other

Or it could be he took no action because he felt that since she, in her own words, "misbehaves" that she was responsible for her own demise. He knew that the American CIA was willing to threaten and maybe even kill people to get the phone, so who else was there out in the big wide world that would be willing to do the same?

 

He told Mycroft that the phone was her get out of jail card. Without it she was in nothing but trouble. And the CIA were onto her before he was. He and John just happened to be at her house in time to save her from them.

 

Ooh. guessing you're a Sherlock/John shipper . But that's what I mean, though. Right there, you are speculating and extrapolating from the information told us by the characters. Sherlock doesn't tell us how he feels about it. We can only speculate about his feelings. 

 

Are you suggesting he feels her death was no more than she deserved for "misbehaving" though?   Is that  what he's implied with his words? What does he imply to the audience with his actions, though?  He wonders if there is something wrong with him and Mycroft. He takes the cigarette and lights up. He plays sad music and withdraws.  So he may say one thing (and believe it) but what he does iplies something else. I'm not saying I know what his actions imply, only that they are framed in such a way to imply a sense of confusion and loss.

 

That's what makes BBC Sherlock better storytelling than Elementary. IMO. 

 

I still like Elementary though:-)

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Nope, not a shipper what so ever. Never felt the two were "a couple" in the Biblical sense.

 

Nope, not suggesting anything. Especially that she deserved to die for "misbehaving" heaven forbid. Then a whole lot of us would be in trouble.

 

I am just saying that yes, I think on some level he was very sad that she was dead and that he missed her. She was clever and a foil for him and that's was not something he ran across often, in men, let alone in a woman. But he wouldn't feel guilty about it. As Benedict Cumberbatch said in a round table on "ASIB" it was like a Victorian love affair. The words never spoken out loud. The meaning was there but maybe never acted upon. Especially as he comes to know how much she cannot be trusted and to what lengths she would go, even if it meant betraying those feelings.

[wildwoodflower]

Elementary went there. I'm not going to spoiler it by even attaching a spoiler.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Elementary went there.

Somehow that does not surprise me.