What Series of Sherlock is Your Favourite?

[Arcadia]

Now I'm frightened....

[Inge l-w]

Completely irrelevant, since my all-time favourite is a combination of S1&S2, namely SIP, TGG, SiB, but when did the owl get a scarf?

[J.P.]

It's a while already :P

[Carol the Dabbler]

For some reason nobody ever thought to add Series 4 -- till now!  If you had already voted, feel free to change your vote, if you like.  And if you haven't voted yet, now's your chance.

 

 

P.S.:  I thought I'd put Tie at the very end, but when I tried doing that, it gave all of the Tie votes to Series Four, which hardly seemed fair to those who had voted for a Tie.  So I had to change it.

[Janyss]

I didn't vote before, so even with s4 competing, s3 as for me. With much hésitation, but that's it. In the other series there are episodes I don't like (I mean, much less than others, it's Sherlock anyway): second one in S1, first one in S2, and second one in S4 (I know, it's the reverse for most of the fans and critics, but that's it). S3 is the only one in which I like the three ones.

[Arcadia]

Same here; I picked S3 because it's the one where I loved all three episodes. Not sure I can pick between S1 and S2. Poor old S4 has to come last for me, in spite of the fact that I think TLD is one of the best things I've ever seen on TV.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I used the same method but came up with S1 -- because it's the only series that has two of my top-favorite episodes (guess which is the odd one out?).

[Janyss]

I'll try to rewatch TBB one day(as I asume it is your "odd", Carol?...). It seems everyone consider it as the weakest of all the épisodes. And yes, series 4 has very unequal épisodes, or even unequal scenes inside each episode. In TLD I can't cope with Culverton Smith, but I love all the female roles (Mrs Hudson, Mary, Alicia, Faith-the therapist-Euros...even Molly is good here!). There are some boring moments in T6T, next to very good ones. I'd say in the other series, the épisodes have a more regular rhythm. 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree about Culverton Smith!  The man turns my stomach -- and while I assume that was the intent, I could very well do without it.  I'm finding him slightly easier to take with repeated viewings, but at this rate, it'll take quite a few more repeats to get him down to "bearable."

 

Right, TBB.  While I wouldn't call it weak exactly, it suffers by comparison to the episodes on either side of it.

[Arcadia]

Smith succeeds at utterly repelling me, which is why I think he's a great villain. I have to admit I found Magnussen rather boring, in a totally creepy sort of way. :smile: Moriarty is fun!

[Janyss]

I understand your point of view...but I really tend to prefer Magnussen to Smith as a villain (of course Moriarty is beyond any competition). Smith is -to me- some kind of "too much", I don't know... CAM has a venenous charm that makes the character attractive, something like that.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, I know what you mean. I find CAM's face-licking scene revolting -- but I find CS *himself* to be revolting.

[Arcadia]

I think the other thing that bothers me about CAM is that he won. He never stopped having the upper hand, and Sherlock had to resort to what I consider cheating to get rid of him. I understand that's an "interesting" place to take your titular character, but ... well, I guess I like my heroes to win by being nobler than the villains, not by being even worse than the villains. CAM brought out a side of Sherlock I didn't want to believe existed, I suppose. (Good thing I'm not writing the show; Sherlock would be such a paragon of virtue that he'd bore everyone to death. :P)
 
But I think the deciding factor for me is ... Smith was an immediate threat. If Sherlock (or John) had resorted to shooting him, I think I would have regarded it as justifiable homicide, done to save someone else's life. CAM was mostly creepy, which in and of itself is not actually a crime....

 

Interesting that Sherlock thinks "preying on people's weaknesses" is so heinous, when he does much the same thing himself. Of course, the people he "preys" on are bad guys, so I guess that makes the difference. 

 

No point here, I'm just thinking ....

[Janyss]

I think you've exactly pointed why I like CAM...he represents the part of evil which we have to accept, or that we find difficult to fight, in our existences. That's Mycroft's statement in the beginning of the episode. The difference is that Mycroft has renounced to fight against him and tries to cope, and Sherlock refuses and decides to wage the battle, even if he gets his hands dirty, even if it costs a lot, and even if the challenge is impossible.

 

It reminds me of a tale here in France (I don't know the equivalent in English-speaking literature), called "Mr Seguin's goat" (la chèvre de M. Seguin): the little goat has been warned against the wolf if she goes out in the forest, but she refuses to remain behind the farm's fences and flees. In the evening, she meets the wolf and knows she hasn't got any chance to survive. However, she fights the wolf all the night long, sentencing herself to death, but refusing to give up without trying to get rid of the wolf...In HLV, it seems to me that Sherlock behaves a little like this little goat. 

[gerry]

7 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Interesting that Sherlock thinks "preying on people's weaknesses" is so heinous, when he does much the same thing himself. Of course, the people he "preys" on are bad guys, so I guess that makes the difference. 

Doesn’t Sherlock prey on his friends’ weaknesses so he can manipulate them?  I don’t think that personality trait of his is isolated to bad guys.  He manipulates John at the end of TEH, Molly multiple times and even Janine.  Isn’t that why Sherlock can relate on some level to the Adlers and other bad guys of the world since he practices the same techniques?  He even gloats about manipulating his friends in TLD at the beginning at that therapist’s house.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Just testing....

[J.P.]

Why is this thread and Fun Facts and Trivia thread suddenly appeared at Twitter?

[Arcadia]

Alas, you need someone with higher rank than mine to answer that. I barely understand why Twitter exists, let alone how it works.  

[Hikari]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:55 AM, Janyss said:

I understand your point of view...but I really tend to prefer Magnussen to Smith as a villain (of course Moriarty is beyond any competition). Smith is -to me- some kind of "too much", I don't know... CAM has a venenous charm that makes the character attractive, something like that.

Very well put!  'Venomous charm', yes.  If you find CAM a bit attractive in a threatening sort of way, you need to see Lars Mikkelsen out of character.   He is very sexy.  And so tall (6'4").  He shares no physical traits in common with his little brother Mads, but they do share fleeting expressions & a distinctive body language.  When LM played the Russian president on House of Cards, in a scene where Lars was just standing behind a desk, I could see Mads standing in precisely the same way any number of times.

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 2/11/2018 at 9:06 AM, Janyss said:

I think you've exactly pointed why I like CAM...he represents the part of evil which we have to accept, or that we find difficult to fight, in our existences. That's Mycroft's statement in the beginning of the episode. The difference is that Mycroft has renounced to fight against him and tries to cope, and Sherlock refuses and decides to wage the battle, even if he gets his hands dirty, even if it costs a lot, and even if the challenge is impossible.

So Mycroft, being the elder, has seen enough of life to know that if CAM is stopped, some other predator will spring up to take his place (as they say, nature abhors a vacuum), but Sherlock, being the younger, is still idealistic enough to try?

[Janyss]

3 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

So Mycroft, being the elder, has seen enough of life to know that if CAM is stopped, some other predator will spring up to take his place (as they say, nature abhors a vacuum), but Sherlock, being the younger, is still idealistic enough to try?

That's the point. Sherlock has a reason to fight Magnussen when he realises that the tycoon threatens Mary and John. Keeping his promise to them, fighting for his friends, choosing his friends' safety instead of his brother and his country's security ...sounds very idealistic. On the contrary, Mycroft considers that a force of evil like Magnussen can be controlled and is useful against what he sees as worse dangerous forces. He plays a game of political alliances . Is the difference of behaviours caused by the age gap? I'm not sure Mycroft would have acted differently as a younger man, and that Sherlock would change his mind with a few years more. As for me, the difference is mainly about how every individual deals with evil: concessions, resistence...But one can hope the spirit of resistence is higher in younger people's minds.

Hikari, I think Lars and Mads are two great actors. A man of "6'4'' " must be very tall, but I have no idea what it represents in my metres and centimètres system    !

[Hikari]

5 minutes ago, Janyss said:

That's the point. Sherlock has a reason to fight Magnussen when he realises that the tycoon threatens Mary and John. Keeping his promise to them, fighting for his friends, choosing his friends' safety instead of his brother and his country's security ...sounds very idealistic. On the contrary, Mycroft considers that a force of evil like Magnussen can be controlled and is useful against what he sees as worse dangerous forces. He plays a game of political alliances . Is the difference of behaviours caused by the age gap? I'm not sure Mycroft would have acted differently as a younger man, and that Sherlock would change his mind with a few years more. As for me, the difference is mainly about how every individual deals with evil: concessions, resistence...But one can hope the spirit of resistence is higher in younger people's minds.

Hikari, I think Lars and Mads are two great actors. A man of "6'4'' " must be very tall, but I have no idea what it represents in my metres and centimètres system    !

Yep, Mycroft is a spy to his core.  7 years' more life experience counts for something, but I think he would have been like this from his earliest years.  As soon as he could write, he would have been compiling dossiers on people.  M. is pragmatic & cool-headed in all circumstances, save one:  his little brother is his Achilles heel.  But even where Sherl is concerned, he doesn't completely abandon his hard-wiring.  Mr. Holmes the Younger is the hot-head of the two, and the idealist.  He has channeled his more volatile characteristics into Science and schooled himself to be detached and emotionless (more like Mycroft, that is) . . .but he can't entirely abandon his natural tendencies under stress either.  His idealism shows most in his choice of profession--the lone wolf consulting detective, but proof in his belief that one man can make a profound impact on events.  His impact is in a more concentrated circle than Mycroft's, but more immediate and directly traceable to his own efforts.  Little Bro does require more admiration/acknowledgement for his gifts than Big M. who above all prefers to remain anonymous, wielding his gifts on behalf of Britain firmly behind the scenes.  Mycroft's idealism takes the form of protecting Queen and Country from threat--a very macro world view.  Sherlock's idealism is micro-oriented . . .especially when it comes to John Watson.  John is the litmus test for SH's idealism, even if SH tells himself that he's only in the detecting game for the joy of puzzle-solving. 

Mycroft was an old soul at birth . . which is quite typical for an eldest who was an only child for seven years.  His younger sibling is in many respects, a typical later-born . . these traits are dialed down in Sherlock, and only in comparison to his brother, probably, could he be construed as impetuous, emotional or a perpetually young-at-heart spirit.  But those traits are in there.  We can even see them in Canon, reading between the lines. 

**********

Janyss, for you, I looked up the inches to centimers conversion.  Lars M. is 6'4", which is 176 inches = 193.04 cm.  Are you impressed?

(You should be.)

 

 

[Janyss]

As a 158 cm woman, I'm impressed  ! Thanks for the conversion.

I totally agree with you about the typical elder and the typical younger. You can see it a little in ACD's books, but Moftiss (mainly Mark, I guess) developed this side of the story very much, linking the conflict between the two brothers with more general family issues and political dilemmas. That's why I like HLV and season 4 -specifically TFP- so much, I guess.

To come back a little to the topic: I wouldn't change my mind and assert season 4 is my favourite, but seriously: a whole season (and a few elements of HLV and TAB also) only based upon six words of the original text ("There's an east Wind coming)... SIX. WORDS. What do Moftiss use to make 5 o'clock tea? I want some!

[Hikari]

25 minutes ago, Janyss said:

As a 158 cm woman, I'm impressed  ! Thanks for the conversion.

I totally agree with you about the typical elder and the typical younger. You can see it a little in ACD's books, but Moftiss (mainly Mark, I guess) developed this side of the story very much, linking the conflict between the two brothers with more general family issues and political dilemmas. That's why I like HLV and season 4 -specifically TFP- so much, I guess.

To come back a little to the topic: I wouldn't change my mind and assert season 4 is my favourite, but seriously: a whole season (and a few elements of HLV and TAB also) only based upon six words of the original text ("There's an east Wind coming)... SIX. WORDS. What do Moftiss use to make 5 o'clock tea? I want some!

I get to be taller than you . . .I am 165 cm. 

I don't get to say often that I'm taller than someone.  I learnt this because I lived in Japan and they use the metric system.  I also know my shoe size is 37.5.  Though my feet may have gotten bigger since I was buying Japanese shoes.  This was 20 years ago.

I wasn't even that much taller than most Japanese people under the age of 60.  I work with preschoolers a lot now so I do get to be taller than a lot of people in the room, but most of the moms are taller than I am.

[J.P.]

Lars and Mark were only two actors who didn't look surprisingly small in RL. And absolutely not intimidating, in any way. I really liked him, with his slightly reserved kindness and quiet humour. I still smile at his story about playing street music in Moscow back in the 80ies. But I digress…