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Posted

There's already been some discussion of the recording (memory stick, USB flash drive, thumb drive, whatever) that Mary gives to John in "Last Vow," but here I'd like to focus on it:

 

SHERLOCK: ‘A.G.R.A.’ What’s that?
MARY: Er ... my initials.  Everything about who I was is on there. (Directly to John) If you love me, don’t read it in front of me.
JOHN: Why?
MARY: Because you won’t love me when you’ve finished ... and I don’t want to see that happen.

 

and on Mary's other confession:

 

MARY: The stuff Magnussen has on me, I would go to prison for the rest of my life.

 

(Quotes from Ariana DeVere's transcript.)

 

The more I think about Mary, the more she becomes just a big bunch of question marks in my head.  Near as I recall, the above is about all she's ever said about herself, other than being an orphan, which may have been just part of her cover story.  At this point, I don't know whether to believe any of it.

 

Posted

'Fraid I don't have anything to add as I feel exactly the same way.

Posted

Well, thanks for the moral support, anyhow!  :D

 

Apparently everything she had previously told John about herself was a lie.  So why should we suddenly start believing her when she says Magnussen's information could send her to prison?  What if that's just her next cover story?

 

Posted

First of all, why should an assassin with an assumed identity keep documented records of her past and carry them around with her, when it seems it is paramount for her safety that said past remains secret? The mere existence of that memory stick could use some explanation. Of course I understand it's a neat device for telling the story; it symbolizes Mary's past and "true identity", so we can watch John toss all that very dramatically into the fire, but an "in universe" reason would be nice.

 

My best theory so far on that head is that the stick contains data Mary stole from Magnussen, that it holds actual files he had on her. We know that while most of his information about people was stored only inside Magnussen's mind palace, he admitted to sending out for material occasionally, and to get stuff into the mind palace, he has to know about it first, doesn't he. So I suppose it makes sense if, when Mary broke into the office, she looked around a bit before confronting Magnussen and took everything she could find about herself. Then, after the incident with Sherlock, she decided to keep the stick, because she might need it for negotiating with him.

Posted

We really don't even know what was on that flash drive, though, do we?  We know what Mary said was on it, but if anyone else ever checked, they haven't told us.

 

It does seem really clear that there was some sort of bad blood between Mary and Magnussen -- but as to the nature of it, all we have is Magnussen's assertions about Mary's past (and I sure wouldn't stake my life on his word) and Mary's assertion that he could have sent her to prison (ditto).  Maybe he didn't have anything on her at all, maybe he had something on someone else (possibly John?) that she didn't want disclosed to anyone (even Sherlock).  Maybe once Sherlock vowed to protect them, Mary saw an opportunity to get rid of Magnussen -- so she set Sherlock up to get rid of Magnussen by telling him that Magnussen was a grave threat to her (and then of course Magnussen, the idiot, couldn't resist saying that he could have her killed).

 

I realize that I"m overthinking this, but there's just no firm footing here.

 

Posted

We really don't even know what was on that flash drive, though, do we?  We know what Mary said was on it, but if anyone else ever checked, they haven't told us.

 

For the time being, I am going to believe her, for no better reason than that it would make the plot unnecessarily complicated if she were lying.

 

What I refuse to believe is that Sherlock did not have at least one look at the contents of the memory stick before John burned it. John had that thing for months, no matter how ill Sherlock was, if he could manage to sneak away and meet with Magnussen, then I am sure he found an opportunity to do a little research on Mary as well.

 

Now, if Sherlock did indeed read up on her past, and he still wanted John and Mary to get back together and Mary safe, then her deeds can't have been that horrible, at least not by Sherlock's standards (which, admitted, are pretty, um, original). So I'm still willing to believe Mary is, in all, on the side of the angels, just like our hero himself, although she most certainly is not one of them, either.

Because I trust Sherlock's judgement. I really do. I don't think he's that ignorant about human nature at all. So far, he has chosen his few friends very wisely.

 

  • Like 3
Posted

Well, there's that thing she startles at in the wedding when CAM's telegram is read outloud... he's taunting her about something...

 

"Oodles of love and heaps of good wishes" - from CAM

"Wish your family could have seen this."

 

Makes me think there is something about her family that is not good - like did she murder them?  Clearly she knows that CAM knows and is taunting her about something?  Just another wild guess.

Posted

Yeah, it's pretty clearly supposed to be from Magnussen, but Moftiss didn't want us to notice, so they used his initials.  The meaning of his message could be as simple as a painful reminder that (now she's undercover) she can no longer have any contact with her real family, even on her wedding day -- or he could be implying that (despite her best efforts) he knows who she really is, and therefore who her relatives are, and is threatening to harm them if she doesn't cooperate with him.
 

For the time being, I am going to believe her, for no better reason than that it would make the plot unnecessarily complicated if she were lying.


Making it different from the rest of this plot in what way?  ;)   But I agree, I can't imagine that Sherlock didn't take a peek.

 

Posted

Well, if he did take a peek, he isn't letting on... yet.

 

My whole post just disappeared... will try to reconstruct (bad internet connection). 

 

Magnussen sends out for files occasionally.  So he sent out for files on Mary.  Why?  We don't know.  Yet.  But that means the files exist in hard copy SOMEWHERE.  Which means other people can access them too.  I suspect this will come up again.

 

Notice at the end of TEH that the sound is very focused on Mary's "John!  John!  John!"  Magnussen is watching her in this new scenario with Sherlock and John.  He baited her with the skip code.  She was perfectly capable of deciphering it, I'm sure, but she played dumb and went to Sherlock. However, that she even used the words "skip code" made him take a second look at her.  She needed Sherlock's physical help at that point to rescue John from whatever.  And I wouldn't put it past her that she knew that Magnussen baited her, which may be why she went to kill him in HLV,  A little revenge for putting John in the fire.  She would have had good reason for wanting him dead just for that alone.

 

Mary called Sherlock "slow" in HLV.  She is very quick and fast but is masking it to appear to be living a normal life.  She is CIA trained, knows every trick the book.  I am hoping some of these tricks come in useful later, but ultimately we know she isn't going to survive as she doesn't in the original canon.  Interesting how many of the reaction videos from TSOT thought she was going to die in HLV.  

Posted

Oh, and I should add that I think if Sherlock does know anything from the AGRA drive, he would never tell John unless it were critical to his or Mary's safety.

Posted

I'm wondering why it's assumed she was CIA? I don't remember any mention of that in the script. Sherlock (I think) guesses she was an intelligence agent (which she neither confirms nor denies), but he doesn't specify CIA. I don't think?

Posted

Actually, when Magnussen goes into his mind palace in front of Sherlock and John and get's Mary's file... or ONE of her files, he says "all those whack jobs for the CIA"

Posted

My whole post just disappeared... will try to reconstruct (bad internet connection). 

 

Magnussen sends out for files occasionally.  So he sent out for files on Mary.  Why?  We don't know.  Yet.  But that means the files exist in hard copy SOMEWHERE.  Which means other people can access them too.  I suspect this will come up again.

Arggh! I hate it when the internet swallows one of my masterpieces. My condolences!  :hugz:

 

I took Magnussen's statement

 

Oh, sometimes I send out for something ... if I really need it ... but mostly I just remember it all.

 

to mean that his sending out for physical documents is the exception.  So we can deduce that he may have had physical files on Mary -- but I don't see how we can be certain that he did, or even consider it probable -- just possible.  But if he did, then right, we'll presumably be hearing more on this.

 

 

I'm wondering why it's assumed she was CIA? I don't remember any mention of that in the script. Sherlock (I think) guesses she was an intelligence agent (which she neither confirms nor denies), but he doesn't specify CIA. I don't think?

 

Actually, when Magnussen goes into his mind palace in front of Sherlock and John and get's Mary's file... or ONE of her files, he says "all those whack jobs for the CIA"

The subtitles have it that way, but I'm fairly certain that he actually said "wet jobs" (which is certainly a more disgusting way of putting it, right in keeping with the man's character).  But in any case, I wouldn't take Magnussen's word if he said the sun comes up in the east -- not without double checking for myself.

 

Sherlock says in Mary's presence

 

By your skill set, you are – or were – an intelligence agent. Your accent is currently English but I suspect you are not.

 

which is compatible with Magnussen's assertion, though lots of other interpretations are also possible.  And while Mary does not deny Sherlock's conjecture, she doesn't confirm (or even acknowledge) it either.

 

Seems like we have precious little in the way of facts about Mary -- but lots of possibilities and conjectures.  In short, maybe she's ex-CIA.  Maybe not.

 

Posted

It would, however, be perfectly in keeping with someone who was an intelligence agent to never give you the real story.  That would be her training and lifestyle.

 

I think, quite frankly, that Sherlock has SOME training in being an intelligence agent.  That lifestyle just didn't suit him.  Certainly he had some training and briefing about his 6-month MI-6 mission, and Mycroft makes a couple of veiled comments...  In TSOT:

 

Mycroft:  I suppose I'll be seeing a lot more of you from now on.

SH:  What do you mean?

Mycroft:  Just like old times.

 

Was Mycroft seeing less of him once John was in the picture?  Seems like Mycroft was seeing more of him.  So is Mycroft referring to a time BEFORE the five years prior to ASIP

 

Also, the taking down of Moriarty's network was probably very much along the lines of a MI-6 mission.  Okay, why the heck am I saying this on THIS thread.  Oh yes... AGRA.

 

What I'm saying is, Sherlock understands the secretive part of undercover work.  He understands that side of Mary.

  • Like 1
Posted

Also, a "whack" job is a slang term for an assassination.

Posted

Yes, I know it is, and that's presumably why the subtitle people used that term.  But Ariane DeVere and I both (independently) hear Magnussen saying "wet jobs" (which presumably means the same thing).

 

Posted

I think the "wet jobs" may actually just be his accent getting in the way.  Thanks for pointing to Ariane DeVere's Tumblr site, however.  Some good info there, although I don't necessarily agree with all her transcript expositional interpretations.   

 

Interesting about h 4-note "John Alone" theme first heard in ASIP and she feels is repeated in the stair climbing Mind Palace sequence.  I couldn't quite hear it.  Need to check it again.

Posted

Could be his accent, sure.  But there do seem to be a few other errors in the Sherlock subtitles, so it could be an error.  I sure hope that they eventually decide to publish the shooting scripts in book form -- that would help a lot!

 

Posted

I don't see any credible reason for Magnussen to lie on this matter. In contrast: if Mary had come clean before Christmas, or if John had looked at the thumbdrive, John could have easily spotted the lie. Magnussen would have risked his entire "credibility" in one move. His threat to Mary would have lost power, too, in that case. Because he would appear to be bluffing.

 

Magnussen could not have known whether Mary had come clean to her husband or not. He probably thought she did, because there was no reason for John and Sherlock to come to Appledore if they had no clue about Mary's past. It is more likely Magnussen overestimated their knowledge instead of underestimating it.

 

Also, his threat to Mary only makes sense if there was no powerful party which would condone all of her actions. if, by chance, she had only been working for the CIA, then she would have leverage due to the thumbdrive. She would have some sort of protection by blackmailing them into helping her. But it is not as if Mary proposed to "seek protection" by her former "employers." Why though? Most likely because they would not protect her. Thus, the material on the thumbdrive cannot be more damaging to the CIA than it is to Mary herself.

 I do not see the logic behind doubting Magnussen's word at this stage of the "game." He at that point has got the upper hand. And thus, he has more to lose than to gain. Just does not make sense to me. Taunting someone with the truth, not nice. Taunting someone with a lie, and one that does not serve any other purpose and can be revealed this easily, that's a forfeit of the game.

 

Just because he's nasty, that does not make him into a liar by default. In my experience, the nastiest people are often the worst of liars, and the honest of all. They like to boast about their own nastiness too much to bother with made-up facts. And they know that nothing hurts more than the truth.

 

Those files might be more essential than we think. Not just because of the content, but because of the three main questions:

Who created them?

For whom where they created? (Which will give it a purpose: Ordered hit, observation subject, employée file, file on a suspect?)

And through which person did they get into Magnussen's possession? Not even sure if he ever saw the "real deal." Might be a photocopy, might be a picture someone took with their phone. But it is very likely that there's a third party. One that was all too willing to leak it to Magnussen.

  • Like 2
Posted

All very good points.  It would sure be nice if Series 4 actually tied things together that neatly -- and then made the whole package plausible.

 

Right now, it's a little hard for me to take HLV seriously (i.e., I feel like I'm watching a television program, which is not the case with the other episodes), because it feels like a whole lotta shock value strung together.

 

Posted

I wouldn't put it at all past Moriarty to have been involved with Magnussen...when JM was still alive, and I don't think he is, btw.  I think Sherlock is being baited with the animated GIF.  Well, I think the whole country is being baited, but especially the government.  For what?  We don't know.  We will find out.  But I still feel certain what JM and CAM were well acquainted.

Posted

Back to "wet jobs" vs. "whack jobs" for just a moment:

 

Judging by my Google results, "wet job" is a common term for an assassination or murder, especially if done by government agents.  According to Wikipedia, it's a translation of a KGB term derived from 19th century Russian criminal slang.  And Urban Dictionary lists the same definition, posted in 2011 (well before "Last Vow").

 

"Whack job" has had its waters muddied by apparent association with "wack job" (with the latter meaning a wacky person), and is often used as a synonym.  But Urban Dictionary gives the secondary meaning of "a hit" (as in gangland slaying).

 

While Magnussen may have been using gangster slang, the government-agent term seems more appropriate when talking about Mary's involvement with the CIA.

 

OK, we now return you to your regularly-scheduled discussion.

 

  • Like 1
Posted

The KGB background is interesting, indeed. Especially because we got at least part of the file in Cyrillic. Though, as we have established, it is not possible at this point to determine the language. I've gone back to it once again, but I neither can say with certainty that there is a қ nor that there is not. Maybe Jane's eyes are keener than mine, but just from the bad quality, I could not say with determination that it must be this letter. While I value her opinion, I would rather say that the analysis is for nought. It is true that it could be this letter, but I simply can't tell no matter which filters I apply. The second row of the letters is even less legible than the first. Where it is at least possible to decipher a couple of letters. More or less. The rest is guess work already, and the second row... well.

KGB makes some sense, though. One more reference to Eastern Europe, and a confirmation that we are looking in the "right area."

Posted

Taken at face value, the flash drive is a ridiculous plot device - "I'm a professional killer and here is all the evidence against me, which I've collected together in this handy little device.". So, some other ideas....

 

Maybe the flash drive was a test. If John destroys it unread, he has forgiven her and she's safe. If he reads it - or tries to, as we don't know there is anything on it - he wants to know about her past, therefore she isn't safe, therefore she'll have to kill him. Just an idea...

 

Maybe the flash drive John throws in the fire isn't the real one. Maybe John, or more likely Sherlock (or Mycroft!), has got it hidden safely until it is needed. Serve her right for being daft enough to keep evidence which incriminates her.

 

Maybe Sherlock did read the drive, even if John didn't. Maybe, as has been suggested, he doesn't find the material objectionable (though Mary thought John would) and thus he continues to support her relationship with John and still tries to protect her. Or, maybe, he is appalled by her past but, as part of a cunning plan, hides his knowledge from her at this point, as he is still waiting to make his move. Again, how dumb can you be, holding evidence against yourself and then showing it to other people?

  • Like 2

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