The A.G.R.A. Files

[sfmpco]

Of course, Sherlock does say her accent is currently English but that he suspects she is not, but he doesn't go further than that.  Sort of leads it wide open.

[Zain]

Taken at face value, the flash drive is a ridiculous plot device - "I'm a professional killer and here is all the evidence against me, which I've collected together in this handy little device.". So, some other ideas....

 

Maybe the flash drive was a test. If John destroys it unread, he has forgiven her and she's safe. If he reads it - or tries to, as we don't know there is anything on it - he wants to know about her past, therefore she isn't safe, therefore she'll have to kill him. Just an idea...

 

Maybe the flash drive John throws in the fire isn't the real one. Maybe John, or more likely Sherlock (or Mycroft!), has got it hidden safely until it is needed. Serve her right for being daft enough to keep evidence which incriminates her.

 

Maybe Sherlock did read the drive, even if John didn't. Maybe, as has been suggested, he doesn't find the material objectionable (though Mary thought John would) and thus he continues to support her relationship with John and still tries to protect her. Or, maybe, he is appalled by her past but, as part of a cunning plan, hides his knowledge from her at this point, as he is still waiting to make his move. Again, how dumb can you be, holding evidence against yourself and then showing it to other people?

 

Yes. All of those make sense.

I personally love the theory that the thumbdrive was empty. Fits very well with "A.G.R.A" being an empty treasure. And they have gone to a great length to connect the thumbdrive with these initials.

It would be quite cheeky. I love writers who make these steps. Who at least try to fool the audience instead of painstakingly telling the audience how everything is supposed to be understood. That is what I dislike most about the Mary resolution. It's like telling the audience "No. We already did the thinking for you. So STOP thinking." I desperately hope there is more to that. Otherwise this has become my Blind Banker. I felt like in a bad movie the first time I watched it. Until the airfield, I was telling myself every few seconds "There must be more to it. There must be more to it."

I mean, if Mary managed to get the empty thumbdrive past John and Sherlock, it would be 3:0 for her. 1:0 I managed to lie you into the face for months. 2:0 I made you blow out the brains of an enemy of mine without putting myself into too much of a danger. 3:0 I conned you again!

That's more of a villain than Magnussen was. At least in my opinion. He didn't seem very impressive to me.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Taken at face value, the flash drive is a ridiculous plot device - "I'm a professional killer and here is all the evidence against me, which I've collected together in this handy little device.". So, some other ideas....

 

Maybe the flash drive was a test. If John destroys it unread, he has forgiven her and she's safe. If he reads it - or tries to, as we don't know there is anything on it - he wants to know about her past, therefore she isn't safe, therefore she'll have to kill him. Just an idea...

 

Maybe the flash drive John throws in the fire isn't the real one. Maybe John, or more likely Sherlock (or Mycroft!), has got it hidden safely until it is needed. Serve her right for being daft enough to keep evidence which incriminates her.

 

Maybe Sherlock did read the drive, even if John didn't. Maybe, as has been suggested, he doesn't find the material objectionable (though Mary thought John would) and thus he continues to support her relationship with John and still tries to protect her. Or, maybe, he is appalled by her past but, as part of a cunning plan, hides his knowledge from her at this point, as he is still waiting to make his move. Again, how dumb can you be, holding evidence against yourself and then showing it to other people?

 

 

I fully agree!  Makes me wonder why Moftiss came up with the idea in the first place -- till I remember that they apparently felt obliged to work "the treasure of Agra" into the story somehow.  That's about all that makes sense about it.

 

Somebody suggested maybe the drive contained a virus that would destroy John's computer system if he tried to read it.  (Come to think of it, have we seen Sherlock use his computer since then?)

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Nope but then, when did he have the time between getting shot, setting up the little reception at the empty house, collapsing, then turning up at the Holmes estate for Christmas?

[Arcadia]

Now that I've discovered the theory of impressionist writing, I don't think any of it is meant to make sense except on an emotional level. Yet.

 

So what are we feeling? At a guess, I'd say all of us are feeling at least one of these: shock, hurt, confusion, betrayal, love, loss, sadness, vengeance, relief, remorse .... I'm sure I've missed a few.

 

So the question is ... why THOSE emotions? How do those emotions relate to and advance the story? Why those and not happiness, satisfaction, vindication, confidence .....

 

Assuming there is a story arc (or emotional arc) which connects all the seasons, which isn't quite clear yet.

 

Just test driving this new theory because it's the first one that makes sense to me. That is, the emotional narratives in S3 in general, and especially in HLV, make sense to me, even if some of the plot points don't.

 

I'm with sfmpco, I expect to see Sherlock unravel a bit in S4, because that would be the next logical step in the emotional story. I'd be more surprised if I see an explanation for the AGRA thumb drive, or much of anything else that is concrete. But they said we'd be surprised, so who knows!

[T.o.b.y]

Taken at face value, the flash drive is a ridiculous plot device - "I'm a professional killer and here is all the evidence against me, which I've collected together in this handy little device."

 

Very true. It is highly unbelievable that Mary had that thing for a long while and carried it around with her always. Which is why I don't believe that (I simply refuse to). Mary had the stick with her when she was going to what she thought would be a meeting between her and Sherlock, where she would negotiate his silence on her behalf. She'd need something to convince him, and just in case her gun wasn't enough, she may have thought it a good idea to show him evidence for any background story she'd choose to tell him, having good reason to believe that he might not take her word for it, and also that he would demand more information on her before he made a choice.

 

As to where she got the data from, the more recently she acquired it and the shorter she had it in her possession without destroying it, the better, sense-wise. So my best guess is still that she stole it from Magnussen the night she broke in.

 

I have zero proof for any of this, but it's a good enough explanation for me, and it works as well as any other...

 

[Arcadia]

Except it doesn't make sense for Magnussen to have had the information around to steal ... unless he was lying about everything being ONLY in his mind palace. Further proof that none of it makes (logical) sense!

[T.o.b.y]

Except it doesn't make sense for Magnussen to have had the information around to steal ... unless he was lying about everything being ONLY in his mind palace. Further proof that none of it makes (logical) sense!

 

But he did admit he sent out for some things now and then if he needed them. And information has to get into his mind palace somehow, doesn't it?

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 All kinds of information can be gotten from hardcopy, news reports, vital records and such but once required and stored in a mind palace, the hard copy can be easily destroyed.

 

 

Magnussen also made some kind of comment about he being able to put his hands on hardcopy, if he needed to...or something along those lines. Or it could be, he could just write things out from his own memory if the exercise seems to warrant the effort.

 

If he wanted Mary to think he had something on her, he could make false files....."lies with just enough truth to make them believable".  But then that would mean that she hadn't looked at them closely either and would that even be possible?

 

 As fans of Dr. Who have learned, Mofftiss is very good at pulling strains and themes from any and all episodes and bring them forward. Filling in what appear to be plot holes. So I'm going to go along with Arcadia and this new theory. It does make sense and does seem to give what Moffatt and Gatiss is doing in Sherlock a whole lot of wriggle room.

[Arcadia]

 

Except it doesn't make sense for Magnussen to have had the information around to steal ... unless he was lying about everything being ONLY in his mind palace. Further proof that none of it makes (logical) sense!

But he did admit he sent out for some things now and then if he needed them. And information has to get into his mind palace somehow, doesn't it?

 

Yeah, but once it's in his mind he made it pretty clear he doesn't keep any tangible proof. He just knows where to get "hard copy" if he needs it. So why have a thumb drive sitting around with her info on it if he's already committed that info to memory?

 

(Ooops, Fox beat me to it but I'll leave my response here, just because. )

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Why not if he was trying put "own her" like he did everyone else who fell into his orbit?  And through her, he could then own John....and since John is one of Sherlock's pressure points then....

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

How did Mary know what exactly Magnussen had on her? "The stuff Magnussen has on me, I'd go to prison for the rest of my life" - doesn't she say something like that? How does she know? Can she read his mind?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

If she has contact with him....he could have been baiting her, like he did with that telegram at the wedding reception.

[Arcadia]

Same way Lady Smallwood knew what he had on her husband. That's how he gets leverage, by telling his victims what he knows.

[Arcadia]

Actually, maybe that's where the thumb drive came from ... Magnussen gave it to her as a threat ... "this is what I know about you."

 

Still doesn't make sense that she would keep it, though.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Maybe he said he could easily make or already had copies and could easily send one to John. Maybe that could have spurred her to show hers to John?  To try to keep Magnussen from carrying out any kind of threat in that direction?

[Arcadia]

Maybe, but what difference would it make which party gave it to John, if he then actually read it?

 

It seems to me the only thing she could possibly gain by turning over the drive was that it demonstrated that she was willing to put her fate in John's hands; and because she trusted him, she therefore could be trusted. And as a result of her trust and her trustworthiness, he would decide not to read it. It was a gamble on her part (one I personally think she expected to lose).

 

So, yeah, she could've kept information about herself, so if worse came to worse she could at least be the one to reveal her past, in hopes that her "willingness" to reveal her past would demonstrate that her past wasn't important! Pretty far-fetched, imo, but I think we're supposed to think Mary is just that devious. Again, it's about her character and emotions, not her actual deeds.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I don't know I think there are many fans who are as willing as John to throw the thing into the fire and not look back. Trusting Sherlock's outward appearance that she is trust worthy. It seems to me that fans want her to be worthy of John's show of love and forgiveness at the Holmes's estate.

 

As for what difference at to who gave John the memory stick, I would far rather it be Mary then Magnussen. I don't think John would have trusted and even bothered to believe him on anything after the stunt CAM pulled at the flat. If I was John and Magnussen handed me something like that I would destroy it on the spot. No second thoughts, not even a smidgen of desire to know what was on it.

[Arcadia]

I see what you mean. Perhaps devious was the wrong word choice; "smart" would be better, then you can interpret for yourself whether those smarts are being used deviously or straightforwardly!

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Pretty much, I would think, yup.

[T.o.b.y]

I don't know I think there are many fans who are as willing as John to throw the thing into the fire and not look back. Trusting Sherlock's outward appearance that she is trust worthy. It seems to me that fans want her to be worthy of John's show of love and forgiveness at the Holmes's estate.

 

For me, it is not so much a question of worthiness or deserving, I just want to know. I feel a bit cheated as an audience that a window to such an interesting field as the true identity and colorful past of one of the main characters should be opened only to have it shut in my face immediately afterwards.

 

I mean, why give Mary such a wholly unnecessary and uncalled for spectacular background, and then not use it? Why not leave well enough alone, if you're going to reduce the woman to "John Watson's pregnant wife" in the end again, anyway? Series 4 had better do something about this or I will be very cross... ( kidding... I don't think I'd get cross with this show ever unless they did something really bad, like have Sherlock marry Janine and retire with her to Sussex, there to make honey and raise a family of ten, or something absurd like that).

 

As for John's love and forgiveness, I am more pissed off at John than Mary in that scene; it just doesn't work for me. I think I get the intent, but I don't agree with it. For me, it is just not true love if a man refuses to face such colossal facts about his wife. Not dealing with something is not forgiveness. It is denial. By the way, Mary is something of a back-handed little manipulator, isn't she? Giving John that stick, but then saying "you won't love me when you're finished" (with it)? That's a bit of a threat. It's like saying "you can choose: either you get to know the truth, or you get to keep your affection for me. What shall it be? Because you can't have both". No wonder he didn't go near it.

 

Oh damn, the more I think about it, the more I want to know. What the hell did she do? Because on the one hand, her "that's why there are people like me" quote seems to indicate that she doesn't see herself as having done anything wrong. She's not contrite, she doesn't seem to really repent her past, so perhaps she's just a dragon slayer like Sherlock, and doesn't think she has any reason to be (perhaps she really does have no reason to be). On the other hand, she thinks John will stop loving her if he finds out, and she admits that she'd go to prison for life if it was revealed, so it can't be so very harmless. In total, her attitude towards John seems to be "you wouldn't understand".

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh, I agree and I have said it before. John is still very pissed at Mary. John said it first and he's still willing to give her a chance. It seems like there are fans willing to let John captain their ship.

[Slithytove]

 

 

Taken at face value, the flash drive is a ridiculous plot device - "I'm a professional killer and here is all the evidence against me, which I've collected together in this handy little device."

Very true. It is highly unbelievable that Mary had that thing for a long while and carried it around with her always. Which is why I don't believe that (I simply refuse to). Mary had the stick with her when she was going to what she thought would be a meeting between her and Sherlock, where she would negotiate his silence on her behalf. She'd need something to convince him, and just in case her gun wasn't enough, she may have thought it a good idea to show him evidence for any background story she'd choose to tell him, having good reason to believe that he might not take her word for it, and also that he would demand more information on her before he made a choice.

 

As to where she got the data from, the more recently she acquired it and the shorter she had it in her possession without destroying it, the better, sense-wise. So my best guess is still that she stole it from Magnussen the night she broke in.

 

I have zero proof for any of this, but it's a good enough explanation for me, and it works as well as any other...

But did she really think she was going for a meeting with Sherlock, where she would need negotiating tools such as the flash drive? As far as as she knew, Sherlock did not know she would be able to find him when she went hunting for him. From her point of view, he had fled into hiding and she was going after him with a gun. It was Sherlock who turned their meeting into a negotiation.

 

Regarding John's apparent refusal to know the truth about her past before he forgives her.....Well, he manages to forgive her for shooting Sherlock, who is supposedly the other person he most loves in the entire world, so presumably forgiving her for killing people he never met wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

[sfmpco]

One of the interesting things about the whole Mary shooting Sherlock things is the old question of "If your friend's spouse was cheating and you knew it, would you tell them or let them figure it out?"

 

Sherlock's response to the whole shooting was to expose it to John the first chance he got, but he needed John to hear it for himself rather than be told by Sherlock, and they had a very elaborate setup.  John already knew when he went to Leinster Gardens, however because of 

 

1,  His chair being in the flat

2.  Mary's perfume on the side table

3.  The phone call from Sherlock telling him to go to Leinster Gardens.

 

So I really respect Sherlock for stepping in and saying "This problem needs to be exposed.  Now."

[Carol the Dabbler]

Now that I've discovered the theory of impressionist writing, I don't think any of it is meant to make sense except on an emotional level. Yet.

 

So what are we feeling? At a guess, I'd say all of us are feeling at least one of these: shock, hurt, confusion, betrayal, love, loss, sadness, vengeance, relief, remorse .... I'm sure I've missed a few.

 

So the question is ... why THOSE emotions? How do those emotions relate to and advance the story? Why those and not happiness, satisfaction, vindication, confidence .....

 

Assuming there is a story arc (or emotional arc) which connects all the seasons, which isn't quite clear yet.

 

Just test driving this new theory because it's the first one that makes sense to me. That is, the emotional narratives in S3 in general, and especially in HLV, make sense to me, even if some of the plot points don't.

 

I'm with sfmpco, I expect to see Sherlock unravel a bit in S4, because that would be the next logical step in the emotional story. I'd be more surprised if I see an explanation for the AGRA thumb drive, or much of anything else that is concrete. But they said we'd be surprised, so who knows!

I'm interested in what you're saying, but having a little trouble figuring out which part of it is the "new theory" that you're test driving -- that Moftiss have turned impressionist? Or did I miss something?

 

Actually, maybe that's where the thumb drive came from ... Magnussen gave it to her as a threat ... "this is what I know about you."

 

Still doesn't make sense that she would keep it, though.

I like that idea, 'cause I cannot for the life of me figure out why she'd create a file like that herself. How's this, to explain why she kept it:  Sherlock horned in, right after Magnussen gave her the drive, so she just shoved it into her pocket and didn't really have time to deal with it for a while.

 

I feel a bit cheated as an audience that a window to such an interesting field as the true identity and colorful past of one of the main characters should be opened only to have it shut in my face immediately afterwards.

 

I mean, why give Mary such a wholly unnecessary and uncalled for spectacular background, and then not use it?

 

<snip>

 

Oh damn, the more I think about it, the more I want to know. What the hell did she do? Because on the one hand, her "that's why there are people like me" quote seems to indicate that she doesn't see herself as having done anything wrong. She's not contrite, she doesn't seem to really repent her past, so perhaps she's just a dragon slayer like Sherlock, and doesn't think she has any reason to be (perhaps she really does have no reason to be). On the other hand, she thinks John will stop loving her if he finds out, and she admits that she'd go to prison for life if it was revealed, so it can't be so very harmless. In total, her attitude towards John seems to be "you wouldn't understand".

I hope you've already answered your own questions (in the last paragraph) by what you said in the first two. Moftiss are setting something up. Hopefully, whatever's coming next will be a hell of a lot more satisfying (or at least a hell of a lot less bewildering and annoying) than "Last Vow"!

 

But did she really think she was going for a meeting with Sherlock, where she would need negotiating tools such as the flash drive? As far as as she knew, Sherlock did not know she would be able to find him when she went hunting for him. From her point of view, he had fled into hiding and she was going after him with a gun. It was Sherlock who turned their meeting into a negotiation.

She was clearly looking for Sherlock, and went hunting for him. She obviously took her gun with her. However, if Mary had taken the gun for the express purpose of killing Sherlock for good this time, then why didn't she just fire away as soon as she saw the figure in the chair? (That mere thought gives me the willies!) I realize that a lot of people think of guns strictly as evil things, but they can also be used for self defense, so maybe that's why Mary took hers -- after all, Sherlock is far bigger and stronger than she is. Since she didn't go in shooting (thank heaven!), then perhaps she actually was looking to negotiate, or reason with Sherlock, or something along those lines.

 

I'm not saying that's why she had the flash drive in her pocket.  Maybe, maybe not.  (I'm perfectly happy with my variation on Arcadia's theory, above.)