A Third Sibling?

[jesskayding]

I don't think he's pretending. He's pretty genuine. I embrace things about myself that is criticized by the general public. Overall I really love who I am. Sherlock is a very confidant character, if he weren't I wouldn't at all be attracted to him as a character... That Molly, however, is a whole 'nother issue.

 

 

Any-who the more I think about the 3rd Sibling inquiry, I would really love for the sibling to be their sister. I just would love it, absolutely love it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

It would surprise a lot of people, I think.  As far as I know, the traditional Holmes fans have mostly talked about an older brother, simply to explain why (the original) Mycroft is free to play British Government, rather than bearing the traditional responsibilities of the eldest son.

 

But if there is a sister, she isn't Jim "from IT" Moriarty, so where does she fit into the story?  Maybe she's The Real Moriarty, the truly evil brains behind her half-brother Jim?  (Yes, I'm kinda fond of the idea that Daddy Holmes's affair was with a Ms. Moriarty.)

 

[Slithytove]

I think people are over-estimating the importance of the Holmes family being country squires.  It doesn't necessarily mean they would have a great estate to manage, with the oldest son inheriting the property and the duty to manage it whilst the younger sons go out into the world to earn a living.  "Country squire" can cover a wide variation of wealth and power.  Some can live in quite modest circumstances.  When I was a child, we lived next door to the last of the line of our local squires.  He was a rather timid elderly man, living in a very ordinary house and mainly supported by the earnings of his wife, who was a hairdresser.  Country squires don't all live in Downton Abbey.

 

I've always assumed that the Holmes family weren't one of the great aristocratic families, who might well expect their eldest son to run the estate and the others to go into politics/the army/the church, but one of the modest but respectable families who, in Victorian times, formed the backbone of Middle England.

[jesskayding]

I think I may have posted an article similar to that Slithytove. Now it's like back on page 1 or 2 of this thread. 

 

I think people are over-estimating the importance of the Holmes family being country squires.  It doesn't necessarily mean they would have a great estate to manage, with the oldest son inheriting the property and the duty to manage it whilst the younger sons go out into the world to earn a living.  "Country squire" can cover a wide variation of wealth and power.  Some can live in quite modest circumstances.  When I was a child, we lived next door to the last of the line of our local squires.  He was a rather timid elderly man, living in a very ordinary house and mainly supported by the earnings of his wife, who was a hairdresser.  Country squires don't all live in Downton Abbey.

 

I've always assumed that the Holmes family weren't one of the great aristocratic families, who might well expect their eldest son to run the estate and the others to go into politics/the army/the church, but one of the modest but respectable families who, in Victorian times, formed the backbone of Middle England.

 

It would surprise a lot of people, I think.  As far as I know, the traditional Holmes fans have mostly talked about an older brother, simply to explain why (the original) Mycroft is free to play British Government, rather than bearing the traditional responsibilities of the eldest son.

 

But if there is a sister, she isn't Jim "from IT" Moriarty, so where does she fit into the story?  Maybe she's The Real Moriarty, the truly evil brains behind her half-brother Jim?  (Yes, I'm kinda fond of the idea that Daddy Holmes's affair was with a Ms. Moriarty.)

 

I think they could fit a sister into it. Shoot, let it be Sarah from SIP... she really dated John to get close to Sherlock. How about, I don't know.... Homegirl from Sherlock's homeless network, who gave him info about the Golem.

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

I think they could fit a sister into it. Shoot, let it be Sarah from SIP... she really dated John to get close to Sherlock. How about, I don't know.... Homegirl from Sherlock's homeless network, who gave him info about the Golem.

 

The homeless girl from TGG doesn't have a name, not even according to Ariane DeVere. So most likely she's not coming back.

 

Sarah? Maybe. But she's a little too frivolous to be a Holmes. Perhaps she's the normal one of the three?

[jesskayding]

 

 

 

I think they could fit a sister into it. Shoot, let it be Sarah from SIP... she really dated John to get close to Sherlock. How about, I don't know.... Homegirl from Sherlock's homeless network, who gave him info about the Golem.

The homeless girl from TGG doesn't have a name, not even according to Ariane DeVere. So most likely she's not coming back.

 

Sarah? Maybe. But she's a little too frivolous to be a Holmes. Perhaps she's the normal one of the three?

 

Firstly I would like to note that the fact that she doesn't have a name, would be the best scenario in which to bring in a 3rd sibling in my opinion.

 

Secondly how do you define frivolous? Because in my mind Sarah is the complete opposite of frivolity. (this would be a perfect example of needing a Mycroft emoticon- I'm posting this secondly post in the voice of Mycroft.)

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Typically, if the character has no name given at all, they won't come back.

 

And about Sarah, well, there's just something un-Holmes-y about her that I can't put my finger on. I just don't think of her as a Holmes sibling (and not just because I think Moriarty's the third one). But like I said, she could be the normal one.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I've always assumed that the Holmes family weren't one of the great aristocratic families, who might well expect their eldest son to run the estate and the others to go into politics/the army/the church, but one of the modest but respectable families who, in Victorian times, formed the backbone of Middle England.

 

I find that perfectly plausible.  Or it's possible that in Conan Doyle's time they actually were a great aristocratic family, but by the current day their holdings have diminished to the point where there really isn't much to manage, thus "allowing" Mycroft the option of managing the country instead.

 

And about Sarah, well, there's just something un-Holmes-y about her that I can't put my finger on. I just don't think of her as a Holmes sibling (and not just because I think Moriarty's the third one). But like I said, she could be the normal one.

 

While I get a chuckle over the idea of a "normal" Holmes, I must agree that Sarah doesn't seem to fit into that family.  As we've discussed in the "Blind Banker" thread, she actually seems far closer to Conan Doyle's Mary Morstan.  (And since Moftiss had already used the original Mary as Sarah, they had to come up with something -- uhh, different for their Mary.  Darn it, why didn't they just bring Sarah back and reveal that she'd been adopted, and her original name was Mary Morstan?)

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

While I get a chuckle over the idea of a "normal" Holmes, I must agree that Sarah doesn't seem to fit into that family.  As we've discussed in the "Blind Banker" thread, she actually seems far closer to Conan Doyle's Mary Morstan.  (And since Moftiss had already used the original Mary as Sarah, they had to come up with something -- uhh, different for their Mary.  Darn it, why didn't they just bring Sarah back and reveal that she'd been adopted, and her original name was Mary Morstan?)

 

 

You know that Moftiss has to keep toying with us and playing with us.  Think of it as a young cat playing with it's prey deciding what to do with it.  Only in this case it's 2 people with an occasional 3rd for good measure. of course, this his how we feel --> with a touch of & maybe some & we think of them as

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

And about Sarah, well, there's just something un-Holmes-y about her that I can't put my finger on. I just don't think of her as a Holmes sibling (and not just because I think Moriarty's the third one). But like I said, she could be the normal one.

 

While I get a chuckle over the idea of a "normal" Holmes, I must agree that Sarah doesn't seem to fit into that family.  As we've discussed in the "Blind Banker" thread, she actually seems far closer to Conan Doyle's Mary Morstan.  (And since Moftiss had already used the original Mary as Sarah, they had to come up with something -- uhh, different for their Mary.  Darn it, why didn't they just bring Sarah back and reveal that she'd been adopted, and her original name was Mary Morstan?)

 

What if the real Mary Morstan wasn't stillborn, then? What if the 'stillborn' was a dead baby provided by a mortician so that A.G.R.A. could take her name? And then maybe A.G.R.A. was sent by Mycroft to keep John emotionally stable until Sherlock came back from being dead, while Sarah/Mary grew up blissfully unaware that someone was using her real identity.

 

Unaware, that is, until she joins Sherlock's homeless network and hears about the whole Magnussen-Mary fiasco.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I agree in that I think there is a Mary/Mycroft connection in there somewhere. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Wouldn't be surprised.  The thought of Mary being assigned to protect John (and then falling in love with him for real) certainly appeals to me.

 

I'm still puzzled about the real Mary being stillborn, though.  I've heard that people on the lam will often take the name of a child who died very young, because they can use the birth certificate to "prove" who they are, with no risk that the real person will object.  I can't say for sure about English birth certificates, but I would assume that a stillborn infant would either not be issued one, or else the certificate would specify a stillbirth, making it of no use to someone trying to assume that identity.

 

Ignoring that for now, though, it's possible that there was some sort of mix-up.  You wouldn't even need to involve a crooked undertaker, just some confusion somewhere along the line, so that Sarah is the real Mary Morstan.  In any of those cases, though, how would she be aware of her original name?

 

[jesskayding]

I dunno. seems juicy though, really need a large soda with this popcorn. 

[Caya]

Wouldn't be surprised.  The thought of Mary being assigned to protect John (and then falling in love with him for real) certainly appeals to me.

 

I'm still puzzled about the real Mary being stillborn, though.  I've heard that people on the lam will often take the name of a child who died very young, because they can use the birth certificate to "prove" who they are, with no risk that the real person will object.  I can't say for sure about English birth certificates, but I would assume that a stillborn infant would either not be issued one, or else the certificate would specify a stillbirth, making it of no use to someone trying to assume that identity.

 

Ignoring that for now, though, it's possible that there was some sort of mix-up.  You wouldn't even need to involve a crooked undertaker, just some confusion somewhere along the line, so that Sarah is the real Mary Morstan.  In any of those cases, though, how would she be aware of her original name?

 

British stillborn must be buried if it happened after the 24th week of pregnancy (it's optional before), so the old "pick someone from a cemetery" trick could've worked. As for birth certificate, this site explains that babies get birth and death certificates if they lived, however briefly, during birth, and a stillbirth certificate otehrwise (the law's similar round here, but I think it's a cutoff weight, not date). So maybe that's what Moftiss were thinking of, and just called it "stillborn" for short (or out of male ignorance)?

 

As for Sarah finding out about her original name, maybe she gets diagnosed with a disease that's strictly hereditary, or she needs a bone marrow donation or something, and that's how she finds out that the people she (and they) thought of as her parents aren't. Which would then start an inquiry into the hospital records of her birth.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Oh, right -- there were two girl babies born the same day, maybe with similar surnames.  If Sawyer was Sarah's name from a previous marriage, then her accidentally-acquired maiden name could've been something close to Morstan -- maybe Moran!

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

And Lord Moran is her brother!

[Arcadia]

I'm getting dizzy again. But then, I never was very good with family trees......

[jesskayding]

How did I get lost on my own thread.

[Carol the Dabbler]

[SherlockedCAMPer]

How did I get lost on my own thread.

 

Very carefully...I don't know 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

I'm getting dizzy again. But then, I never was very good with family trees......

 

Here, I'll draw it out, then. The kids are listed by order of age, and the theorised third siblings are in orange.

 

My theory is that Sherlock and Moriarty are twins, because they're so alike and are supposedly the same age:

 

                                                          Mummy Holmes ---------- Daddy Holmes

                                                                                            |

​                    ​                    ​                    ​             ​      ​       Mycroft

​                    ​                    ​                    ​         ​      Sherlock and Moriarty?

 

 

But some people think it's Enola (from a book series spinoff of Sherlock Holmes) or Sherrinford (unconfirmed).

 

                                                          Mummy Holmes ---------- Daddy Holmes

                                                                            ​               |

  ​                   ​                   ​                   ​                ​         Sherrinford?

​                    ​                    ​                    ​              ​     ​       Mycroft

​                    ​                    ​                    ​                ​          Sherlock

                                                                             ​           Enola?

 

Others think that dear old Daddy Holmes had an affair and that Sherlock and Moriarty were born on the same day, or close to the same day:

 

                                                          Mummy Holmes ---------- Daddy Holmes ------------ ???

                                                                              ​             |                                      |

​                    ​                    ​                    ​             ​    ​         Mycroft                           Moriarty

​                    ​                    ​                    ​                   ​      Sherlock

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Right...and there have been cases when first cousins could look close enough to be identical  twins.

[Arcadia]

       

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Well in this case, if Daddy Holmes had his affair...half brothers.

[jesskayding]

Right...and there have been cases when first cousins could look close enough to be identical twins.

Are you suggesting the ",other one " could be a cousin versus a sibling? You blowin' my Fox. You BLowiN' my MiNd!