Janine

[Arcadia]

I'm declaring myself for the Janine fan club here! I don't see her as boy crazy or loose or any of those things, she was smart and sassy and she was a good foil for Sherlock. I thought he even flirted with her at the wedding, in an indirect sort of way.

 

Something I've always wondered about: in HLV, when Janine says to Sherlock "I’m the only one who really knows what you’re like, remember?" what do you think she means? What does she think he's like? And later in the hospital, when she says "I know what kind of man you are ..." what does she mean then? The same thing, or something different this time? Because she adds "we could have been friends" and I can't quite see how one has to do with the other. Also I can't tell if she really understands him at that point, or if she's still completely taken in by what she thinks he is.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'd have to watch those episodes again (the horror!) to be at all certain, but my impression is that her comment at the wedding ("if you weren't -- whatever you are") refers to his lack of social inclinations.  "I'm the only one who knows what you're like" could mean that he has her fooled for the moment -- she thinks that she's actually worked her way into his confidence.  Her comments at the hospital seems to refer to intimacy -- physical and probably emotional as well -- that she would have liked to pursue further.  She clearly likes him, but realizes by then that he's not really interested in developing any more of a relationship (so her exclamation, "That was never gonna happen!" means she's now well aware that HE would never have followed through on his implied intentions).

 

Hmm -- if I'm right about all of that, then Sherlock was definitely leading her on, NOT just allowing her to assume things.  Now we really know who "the rat" is!

 

[Arcadia]

Oh, interesting, it never occurred to me he was just allowing her to "assume things." I can see how in his mind that would make what he was doing "a bit okay." But no, I always thought he was being a major rat. He "lied and lied and lied." That's the one thing about Sherlock I find really, really hard to shrug off, the ease with which he lies.

 

So, but what is it that she thinks he's "like"? What kind of man does she think "he is"? Because at the end there she seemed to think she still "knew" him, even though she now knew he'd been faking everything. Like most of this episode, the potential meanings are so varied that I can barely even think what they might be....

[Boton]

 

 

if I'm right about all of that, then Sherlock was definitely leading her on, NOT just allowing her assume things.

 

I think he was definitely leading her on and maybe even enjoying himself a bit!

 

At the wedding, I think, "If you weren't...whatever you are," perhaps refers to Janine doing a little bit of recon on Sherlock.  She's teased him about "no sex," and she's let him know she'd like to find a guy at the wedding, and he hasn't taken the bait.  I can see Janine approaching Mary or John and saying, "What about this best man of yours -- he's pretty cute!" and getting a vague answer that Sherlock really doesn't date or he keeps mostly to himself, or even that he's celibate.

 

I think "I'm the only one who knows what you're really like," is more of a reference to him being a little less closed off than he wants other people to imagine.  So this is one of those girlfriend comments:  "It's just you and me with the truth" kind of thing.  I actually imagine that there was some physical affection going on, just not actual intercourse.  She was sleeping in his bed and joining him in the tub, after all.  He clearly wasn't pushing her away or making a tape line down the center of the bed for her not to cross.  I think it's up for interpretation as to whether he was enjoying some making out or going through the motions to lead her on, but I believe there was a little of both.

 

I think the "that was never going to happen!" is interesting mostly for Sherlock's behavior.  He got cornered there.  He was not going to just coldly tell her he was going out with her to gain access to CAM's office like he said pre-shooting.  Obviously, she knew that, but he clearly got a little flustered when she didn't acknowledge "the fact of our connection" and called him out on the sex part.  I think that's interesting, because he could have very coldly said, "You were a means to an end," but instead he softened it with the implication that there was originally something there, and he just used it as part of his work.

 

Another interesting thing:  In the scene above where Janine sits on his lap in 221B and says "Don't forget, I'm the only one who knows what you're really like," Sherlock replies, "Don't you go letting on," and then Janine says, "I might just, actually."  I personally think that CAM was pressuring Janine for dirt on Sherlock at that point (and maybe getting the drug story from her), and she was already getting pulled both directions (threat from CAM, growing affection for Sherlock).  Notice that her revenge was really on both Sherlock and CAM, and Sherlock got off relatively easy.  Janine did sell her story, but she sold it to CAM's competitor.  And her story was not an especially damaging one for Sherlock.  Going around town saying, "Hey, that famous detective is as good in bed as he is on a crime scene" is hardly the most vengeful thing Janine could have said.  She would have done much more damage calling his virility into question, but she didn't.  I think that's interesting, too, and its one of the reasons I like Janine.

[Arcadia]

I think he was definitely leading her on and maybe even enjoying himself a bit!

Oh, quite definitely enjoying himself, even if it was only in a "ha ha, I fooled you all" sort of way. Sherlock luvvvvvs to be in charge of a situation.

 

I think "I'm the only one who knows what you're really like," is more of a reference to him being a little less closed off than he wants other people to imagine.

Okay, I get that. She thought he was being more "vulnerable" around her, yeh?

 

....She would have done much more damage calling his virility into question, but she didn't. I think that's interesting, too, and its one of the reasons I like Janine.

Same here. All in all, I thought she was very classy about the whole thing; she told him what he did wrong, why she was hurt, and what her "revenge" would be. And after that she pretty much just let it go and wished him well. And left him with something to think about.

[Janie]

A few more posts like that and you'll actually make me like her  

[Arcadia]

Also I don't find her threatening, I don't think she's going to "corrupt" Sherlock into having a long-term, meaningful, exclusive relationship. He's still available, gals! And guys!

[sittything]

I think I need to rewatch all the eps, and I'll definitely try to take a better look at Janine.  See if I can figure out why I dislike her, other than she makes me feel bad for Molly.  Maybe that's it?  lol.

[Janie]

Right, I have to remind myself why I actually don't like her. She's annoying and vulgar and not a match for Sherlock But I have to admit that what Sherlock did to her was horrible and not even Janine deserved it. 

[Arcadia]

Yeah, I do feel for Molly. But Molly's got the inside track, she actually has a reason to interact with Sherlock. And I think he genuinely trusts her. And perhaps more important to him, he still has a use for her; that makes her more precious to him. His use of Janine is over, at least for now. (Poor Molly indeed if Janine proves useful again, though!)

[Boton]

 

 

She thought he was being more "vulnerable" around her, yeh?

 

Yeah, that's my working assumption for right now.  He was letting her see a lot of less controlled sides of himself, whether that was horsing around in the tub or having this recreational drug habit, she was seeing a side that wasn't quite so buttoned up.  Now, how much of this was an act and how much of it was real is up for interpretation.  I choose to believe that indeed he was both doing drugs and dating Janine for a case, but that doesn't mean he was immune to the pleasant side effects of both.

[Arcadia]

Right, I forgot the drugs stuff, she probably knew he was using. -- ?? Urk, now I like her less, that would imply she saw nothing wrong with a little recreational drug use....

[Boton]

 

 

Right, I forgot the drugs stuff, she probably knew he was using.

 

That's always bugged me about her.  She said in the hospital something like, "Dream come true for you; they attach the drugs to you."  So she definitely knew.  Not to mention the fact that Mycroft searching the apartment and the whole "Don't appal me when I'm high" business was not exactly done in a way that couldn't be heard through the bedroom door.  And that's just what we got to see on screen.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

And she knew how to manipulate the morphine drip enough that she could actually turn the darn thing off on him. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Right, I have to remind myself why I actually don't like her. She's annoying and vulgar and not a match for Sherlock  

 

I've seen a lot of people posting that sort of thing, but I don't get it.  (Maybe because I'm also annoying and vulgar?)  Could you post some examples, please?

 

Right, I forgot the drugs stuff, she probably knew he was using. -- ?? Urk, now I like her less, that would imply she saw nothing wrong with a little recreational drug use....

 

Not necessarily.  I mean how many of us know anyone who's perfect?  Maybe she liked him for himself, knew that he was using, but also saw that it didn't seem to impair him, and so just thought, "Well, that's Sherlock for you."

 

[Boton]

 

 

And she knew how to manipulate the morphine drip enough that she could actually turn the darn thing off on him. 

 

Not terribly difficult to figure out a PCA machine.  But she certainly knew that she had to cut off the morphine to get his attention, which I think somewhat implies that she either 1) saw that he was really, phenomenally out of it when she visited, or 2) had seen him high before and knew he couldn't pay attention while intoxicated.  And she wanted his attention for sure.

 

Edited to add:

 

 

Not necessarily.  I mean how many of us know anyone who's perfect?  Maybe she liked him for himself, knew that he was using, but also saw that it didn't seem to impair him, and so just thought, "Well, that's Sherlock for you."

 

Excellent point, I think.  Just because she knew he was using doesn't mean she knew about or believed that he was spending nights in a shooting gallery.  If he wasn't doing it at home and came home mildly high a couple of times, she may not have given it a ton of thought.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Or he was telling the truth and he only used for the sake "the case". I think CAM even said that he didn't believe the drug thing anyway. But since she was CAM's PA she may have known about Sherlock's past history. 

[Janie]

 

Right, I have to remind myself why I actually don't like her. She's annoying and vulgar and not a match for Sherlock

 

I've seen a lot of people posting that sort of thing, but I don't get it.  (Maybe because I'm also annoying and vulgar?)  Could you post some examples, please?

 

 

I hoped I wouldn't have to explain that but well... I'll try. I can't actually think of any examples, it's just the overall impression I got of her. I see her as a girl who is interested only in his looks and sex (though I know they didn't sleep together) and not in his personality and definitely not his brain. Yes, she finds his deduction skills useful at the wedding but other than that she doesn't seem to really care about it. And like others here pointed out, she was fine with him using drugs. If she really liked him she would have been at least annoyed at him because of that. 

 

I'm not saying she's a bad person. I just think she's shallow and didn't really like him. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well, I guess it's just a matter of opinion, then.  She certainly doesn't just blurt out what she's feeling, but that doesn't mean that she's shallow -- my own feeling is that she's very observant (though of course no Sherlock) but plays it close to her vest.

 

[avoca]

I do like janine, as I posted in another thread. I think she's smart, tactful, intelligent and very honest. she could be a character to explore in the next episodes.

 

I'm not sure I see her ending up with sherlock and not only for his awful behavior in her regards.

 

I do like molly more, though. and I don't see her ending up with sherlock either, sadly 

 

 

[avoca]

 

 

 

I hoped I wouldn't have to explain that but well... I'll try. I can't actually think of any examples, it's just the overall impression I got of her. I see her as a girl who is interested only in his looks and sex (though I know they didn't sleep together) and not in his personality and definitely not his brain. Yes, she finds his deduction skills useful at the wedding but other than that she doesn't seem to really care about it. And like others here pointed out, she was fine with him using drugs. If she really liked him she would have been at least annoyed at him because of that. 

 

I'm not saying she's a bad person. I just think she's shallow and didn't really like him. 

 

I don't see her shallow either.. I think she's pretty attracted to sherlock because of his looks, but isn't only interested in a one night stand. otherwise, she'd have left for good in the morning,  when she meets john in baker street.

 

molly, just to make a comparison, believes in a more ideal, more romantic kind of love.

 

they both like sherlock for his looks too and are attracted to him, but janine is more at ease with her sexuality, perhaps more self confident and "goes for it".

 

nevertheless, she is honest and interested in sherlock; she has just a different approach to him than -again- molly.

 

besides, she's a one episode only character (sort of): I don't think the screenplay writers were so interested in looking into the character.

[sittything]

OK, I'm rewatching the Janine episodes... will report back...

[Arcadia]

I'm also annoying and vulgar

Could you post some examples, please?

[Arcadia]

I admit I rather prefer Molly's attitude to Sherlock's drug use ... it was stupid and selfish and a waste of his intellectual gifts. So there!

[Boton]

 

 

annoying and vulgar

 

My opinion only, but I think Janine is vulgar in the traditional meaning of the word -- common.  She comes out of Shelock's bedroom clearly having slept in his shirt, calling him Sherl and calling Mycroft "Myc."  I admit, I had this immediate moment of "how dare she" -- taking our rarefied characters and giving them nicknames, grabbing one of those beautiful form-fitting dress shirts and using it as nightwear, wanting our Sherlock to participate in something as plebeian as dinner with wine and sitting!  But then I really started to enjoy her for her, and I think she's a well-conceived character, whether she turns out to be a one-shot or in fact returns for S4.