Jane Austen

[sittything]

Anyone wanna talk Jane Austen?  Movies?  TV mini-series?  Fav books?   

[bedelia1984]

I love Jane Austen. My favourite novel is probably Pride and Prejudice. I love the BBC version of that. I think my favourite film is the Emma Thomspon/ Ang Lee version of Sense and Sensibility (my second favourite of her novels). I got a book version of Emma Thompson's diary from the making of that film last Christmas.

[sittything]

Ah, Bedelia, I was with you until you mentioned Sense and Sensibility.  lol  For some reason, actually I know why, I can't stand Sense and Sensibility. Persuasion is my 2nd favorite book by far.

 

Now I'm thinking I may need to watch Bridget Jones tonight.

 

My weird thing with Sense and Sensibility has always been that it feels a bit immature or over-exaggerated compared to her other novels.  Like Eleanor and Marianne are very extreme examples, almost caricatures.  One very logical, one very emotional.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Having as yet no personal experience with Ms. Austen's works, I'll simply say this -- I suppose y'all have already read that they've just started filming a third Bridget Jones movie?  Word has it that it's not based on any book (neither Austen's or What's-her-name's) -- so the plot is unknown -- and Hugh Grant is apparently not in this one (thank goodness -- I mean, how stupid could that woman be?),

 

As mentioned in another thread, I am seriously considering getting the P&P adaptation with Colin Firth.

 

[T.o.b.y]

Yay! And I didn't even have to be the one to start this thread!

 

Jane Austen is my favorite author, even though none of her novels is my favorite book. I just think she's one of the best writers who ever lived. Her books are deceptively trivial at first glance, but when you go back and read them again with a full knowledge of what's going on with the characters underneath the surface, you realize that not a single word is there without a reason. That woman must have been a "proper genius", as the cabbie said.

 

My favorite of her novels is Mansfield Park. Because I love Fanny Price. I think she's the most believable of all the Austen girls and I identify with her the most. Then comes Persuasion, which is weirdly romantic, then Northanger Abby, because my second favorite (and also very realistic) heroine is silly little teenage Catherine, then Emma (I love Emma but I detest Mr Knightly - or is he spelled Knightley? No matter). Then Pride and Prejudice, and finally Sense and Sensibility. The latter really is a bit immature compared to the others, but I believe Ms Austen began it when she was really, really young (it originally had a different title and was conceived as an epistolary novel if I remember correctly) and I am sure I couldn't have written anything half as good at twice that age.

 

I usually do not like film adaptations of her work. You can't really capture her narrative voice on screen and without that, there really isn't much point to her work - all that remains are social comedies revolving around who marries who. But I do like the Colin Firth version of P+P and I can also recommend a Northanger Abby one by the BBC that has J.J. Field as Henry Tilney.

 

Did someone mention Bridget Jones? Gosh, I love that character. Only the first book, though, I like to ignore the rest. The film was fun, too - Renée Zellweger was perfect for the role. I like to say I am Bridget minus the drinking and the smoking and the affair with the boss.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Did someone mention Bridget Jones? Gosh, I love that character. Only the first book, though, I like to ignore the rest. The film was fun, too - Renée Zellweger was perfect for the role. I like to say I am Bridget minus the drinking and the smoking and the affair with the boss.

 

Have you seen the second movie?  We thought it was good as well.  Alex likes Renee Zellweger (I'll trust your spelling, T.o.b.y) and I like Colin Firth, so I'm sure we'll see the next one as well.

 

I found P&P on Project Gutenberg last night, and started reading it.  Am I misremembering, or was Bridget's narration at the beginning of the first movie just about straight out of the book?  (Something like all mothers are firmly convinced that every single man is looking for a wife.)

[bedelia1984]

Ah, Bedelia, I was with you until you mentioned Sense and Sensibility.  lol  For some reason, actually I know why, I can't stand Sense and Sensibility. Persuasion is my 2nd favorite book by far....

 

My weird thing with Sense and Sensibility has always been that it feels a bit immature or over-exaggerated compared to her other novels.  Like Eleanor and Marianne are very extreme examples, almost caricatures.  One very logical, one very emotional.

 

Well, I knew you had to like Elizabeth and Darcy, as I think they are the most Sherlock and Molly of her couples- especially the incident at the beginning where Darcy insults Elizabeth. But I do think Sense and Sensibility is a harder sell, neither of the sisters are as complex or likeable as Elizabeth. I like Eleanor though, as I find her more restrained than lacking in emotion. I love the funny observations on human nature in S&S, like the brother and his awful wife, early in the novel as they encourage each other to leave his sisters with less and less of their father's fortune. I also, perhaps strangely like that Edward is a bit of a weed in the book- he's definitely not your traditional romantic hero. I think Hugh Grant did very well in that role in the movie. I agree that Marianne's character was too emotionally overwrought, but I objected more to her being married off in the book- as it seemed like a comeuppance for being a woman who acted on her feelings- at least in the movie there was the compensation of the older man being Alan Rickman.

 

 

 

 

As mentioned in another thread, I am seriously considering getting the P&P adaptation with Colin Firth.

 

I don't think you will regret that purchase.

 

Her books are deceptively trivial at first glance, but when you go back and read them again with a full knowledge of what's going on with the characters underneath the surface, you realize that not a single word is there without a reason. That woman must have been a "proper genius", as the cabbie said.

 

 

I completely agree, they are the sort of books that reward multiple readings as they are so artfully constructed. I think for my favourite books are the novels you admire least. There may be something in the youthful exuberance, the humour, romance and sparkle of her early work that I respond to more than the later stories, which for some reason seem darker and a little more cynical to me. Which is not to say they aren't all very good books. For some reason Northanger Abbey failed to capture my imagination the way the others do, I think partly because I found the gothic aspect unconvincing. I would also place Emma around middle-favourite, as I love the wit, but I also have issues with Mr Knightley, and Emma's treatment of Harriet. 

 

I don't know if anyone saw 'The Jane Austen Book Club', but I enjoyed it (and the book it is based on).

[T.o.b.y]

"darker and a little more cynical" - that would explain why I like the later works... :-D

 

I have heard Sherlock's appeal compared to Mr Darcy's and I think I see what people mean, but I can't quite agree. Darcy really thinks he's hot stuff until Elizabeth takes him down a few notches and he's also very susceptible to female charms. Sherlock is mostly oblivious of the attractions of women who aren't Irene and he actually has a ton of self-worth issues behind his cool facade. Darcy would never say "I don't have friends" and I am sure nobody has ever told him to piss off.

 

That's probably why the characters are redeemed / humanized through completely different means: Darcy softens after Elisabeth rejects his proposal and humiliates him in his self-satisfied pride, Sherlock begins to thaw after he meets John whom openly admires him and appreciates his talents.

 

Oh dear - seems I can't talk about anything without mentioning Sherlock. :-)

 

Anyway. Jane Austen. Yes, Carol, Bridget Jones does quote from the beginning of P+P in the first film and the story is loosely based on the Elisabeth - Darcy - Wickham love triangle. In the book, Bridget also mentions the miniseries with Colin Firth, which is why it's doubly funny that he also plays Mark.

[bedelia1984]

"darker and a little more cynical" - that would explain why I like the later works... :-D

 

I have heard Sherlock's appeal compared to Mr Darcy's and I think I see what people mean, but I can't quite agree. Darcy really thinks he's hot stuff until Elizabeth takes him down a few notches and he's also very susceptible to female charms. Sherlock is mostly oblivious of the attractions of women who aren't Irene and he actually has a ton of self-worth issues behind his cool facade. Darcy would never say "I don't have friends" and I am sure nobody has ever told him to piss off.

 

That's probably why the characters are redeemed / humanized through completely different means: Darcy softens after Elisabeth rejects his proposal and humiliates him in his self-satisfied pride, Sherlock begins to thaw after he meets John whom openly admires him and appreciates his talents.

 

 

The main similarity between the characters is probably an arrogant facade- and of course the obvious, the slightly cliched dark brooding quality common in romantic heroes, which they both share. I think maybe the one person who did tell Darcy to piss off was Elizabeth- though of course she was very genteel about it. I don't know that I would describe Darcy as very susceptible to women's charms, in a general sense, because of his initial comments that none of the women at the dance are handsome enough to tempt him. I do think he is incredibly choosy, but also quite guarded and distrustful of people, which makes his interest in Elizabeth all the more significant. In that way, I consider him like Sherlock in that he has a very few close friends, and those people matter a lot to him- after all, his good opinion, once lost, is lost forever.

 

I can see a similarity in that for both Darcy and Sherlock, they have a persona of aloof, removed, self-satisfaction, but a with great deal of need hidden beneath it. And, of course, Darcy's decision to be the hero in Kitty's time of need (and with regard to his sister), could be comparable to Sherlock's heroics.  As you say, though, they do have differences too, and of course we tend to only see Elizabeth's view of Darcy.

 

I have actually managed to avoid the Pride and Prejudice/ Sherlock crossovers in fanfiction, though I have seen them, despite the fact I've been binging on fics in general the last while. I think it's getting to the stage where the fics are going to take over from the actual series in my brain. When I finally see the special I'll be wondering why there aren't more awkwardly matched threesomes and everyone sleeping with everyone, and what that strange mystery thing is that everyone's talking about.

[sittything]

I can't say I ever really thought about P&P in relation to Sherlock.  I don't see much of Elizabeth in Molly.  Our Molly is far too kind.  Elizabeth, while she can play the social nicety game, can be biting and to the point in her remarks, even if it's veiled judgement.  Molly has only been direct and cutting when she was angry at Sherlock for using.   There's that refined yet harsh edge to Elizabeth that I love. 

 

Sherlock and Darcy?  They're both handsome, mysterious, aloof.  I definitely agree that our Sherlock (BC) has more of a self-esteem issue than Darcy.  Not that I think Sherlock is wandering around in a self-doubting state;  he clearly thinks very highly of his deductive abilities, maybe just not of his social abilities.  I do think some of Sherlock's brusqueness comes from keeping others at arms length from previously having been a social outcast at times and not knowing how to fit in.  Darcy seems to be far more appreciative and aware of women, I just think he finds most of them stupid and trivial.  For all of the one is too proud and the other too prejudice talk, both Darcy and Elizabeth don't think well of most members of the opposite gender (or society in general).  They both seem to carry a general disdain for the stupidity and inanity of most people.  Mr. Bennet too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bedelia1984]

I never even considered whether Molly has specific qualities that resemble Elizabeth- she certainly is more gentle, probably more like Mary- though I do think she has Elizabeth's sense of humour and intelligence.

 

I think what most reminds me of the Sherlock/ Molly dynamic is Elizabeth's line: 'Is not general incivility the very essence of love?', which to always summed up the heart of how you see her and Darcy develop feelings for each other.  For me that sums up the way in which manners and appearances can fall by the wayside when there is an intimacy between people. I think you see that with Sherlock with everyone he's very close to- he can be very cutting, certainly, but in a way the more presumptuously he treats his friends, the more he gives away a sense of connection and affection. I noticed that with Mrs. Hudson too, he is quite impatient and bordering on rude to her himself, but won't tolerate Mycroft being short with her for a second.

 

In the movie 'The Jane Austen Book Club' they do an analysis on Emma's Frank Churchill and Julia where a character says 'You believe they're in love because they behave so badly'. I think that's what Jane Austen got so brilliantly right in many of her books, that love does not always bring out the best behaviour in people, which proves a timeless observation.

[Victor Zuanazzi]

I am reading Pride and Prejudice right now!

 

Austen has style in her writing, one certainly must admit. She works the characters personalities really well and it adds so much to the romance. I miss some exitment though, the romance is the center of the story and it is well constructed. However, some I miss something happening in another spheare, such as politics, business or even an adventure. 

 

But I am only half way there (or 20%, acording to my tablet!);

[T.o.b.y]

I am reading Pride and Prejudice right now!

 

Austen has style in her writing, one certainly must admit. She works the characters personalities really well and it adds so much to the romance. I miss some exitment though, the romance is the center of the story and it is well constructed. However, some I miss something happening in another spheare, such as politics, business or even an adventure. 

 

But I am only half way there (or 20%, acording to my tablet!);

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am afraid you won't encounter any of the above mentioned themes as you get on with the book. Nor will you in any other Austen novel. In a letter to the Prince Regent, she explained why:

 

"You are very kind in your hints as to the sort of composition which might recommend me at present, and I am fully sensible that an historical romance, founded on the House of Saxe Cobourg, might be much more to the purpose of profit or popularity than such pictures of domestic life in country villages as I deal in. But I could no more write a romance than an epic poem. I could not sit seriously down to write a serious romance under any other motive than to save my life; and if it were indispensable for me to keep it up and never relax into laughing at myself or other people, I am sure I should be hung before I had finished the first chapter. No, I must keep to my own style and go on in my own way; and though I may never succeed again in that, I am convinced that I should totally fail in any other."

[sittything]

This is why I love Jane Austen:  "I could not sit seriously down to write a serious romance under any other motive than to save my life; and if it were indispensable for me to keep it up and never relax into laughing at myself or other people, I am sure I should be hung before I had finished the first chapter."

[Carol the Dabbler]

We are currently watching the Colin Firth miniseries of P&P, and -- once we got past the rather tedious first episode -- enjoying it very much.

 

The DVD has a preview of some movie called Austen Land, which appears to be either brilliant or truly dreadful. Have any of you seen it?

[T.o.b.y]

Not me. It looked like something I wouldn't enjoy so I gave it a wide berth.

 

That particular Pride and Prejudice adaptation is the best televised Austen I know. I always say her books don't translate well to the screen because her narrative voice is lost but that miniseries does the best possible job imo.

[Amber§]

At school we studied a lot Jane Austen and her works but I have never read from the beginning to the end one of her works, maybe because, as she was part of school programm, I felt a bit constricted to read and study her works, so I have always prefered to avoid them...

My mom has read almost all her novels and she says they're so contemporary, even if they have been written in another century, that people are the same today as at Jane's time. Reading what you all have written, it seems that she was a very intelligent writer; I though her novels were a bit....hummm.....like romantic novels, you know, love, love delusions, feelings and so on, things that I hate. But now I'm not sure about that. Maybe I'll start with one of the most famous novel and I'll tell you if I like it

[T.o.b.y]

At school we studied a lot Jane Austen and her works but I have never read from the beginning to the end one of her works, maybe because, as she was part of school programm, I felt a bit constricted to read and study her works, so I have always prefered to avoid them...

My mom has read almost all her novels and she says they're so contemporary, even if they have been written in another century, that people are the same today as at Jane's time. Reading what you all have written, it seems that she was a very intelligent writer; I though her novels were a bit....hummm.....like romantic novels, you know, love, love delusions, feelings and so on, things that I hate. But now I'm not sure about that. Maybe I'll start with one of the most famous novel and I'll tell you if I like it

Please do! Unfortunately, most film adaptations do convey the impression that her novels are romances but I think that doesn't do them justice at all. In fact, her first book, Northanger Abbey, pokes merciless fun at the Gothic romances that were popular in her youth and in Sense and Sensibility, she pretty clearly sides with sense.

 

I happen to like Mansfield Park the best but then I am one of the few people who actually love Fanny Price.

[Carol the Dabbler]

That particular Pride and Prejudice adaptation is the best televised Austen I know. I always say her books don't translate well to the screen because her narrative voice is lost but that miniseries does the best possible job imo.

 

Alex just noticed that the screenwriter for the P&P miniseries also worked on the first two Bridget Jones movies (among a huge bunch of other things) -- which presumably explains something or other.  (Yes, I realize that the Jones movies were based, perhaps loosely, on books, and that the books were obviously intended as something of a P&P analog, but still....)

[Artemis]

I love Jane Austen's works.  My favorite novel is probably Pride and Prejudice, but the others are pretty close, especially Persuasion and Mansfield Park.  My favorite adaption of P&P is the BBC miniseries (Colin Firth), but my favorite film adaption of any Austen novel is Sense and Sensibility (Emma Thompson).

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

I love Jane Austen's works. My favorite novel is probably Pride and Prejudice, but the others are pretty close, especially Persuasion and Mansfield Park. My favorite adaption of P&P is the BBC miniseries (Colin Firth), but my favorite film adaption of any Austen novel is Sense and Sensibility (Emma Thompson).

Ah yes, the one where Alan Rickman sings... :-D He sure made a plausible case for choosing Brandon over Willoughby! Not only was he not a scumbag, he was hotter, too. :-P

[Artemis]

When does he sing?  I don't remember that scene.  I remember him reading Edmund Spenser, though.

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

When does he sing? I don't remember that scene. I remember him reading Edmund Spenser, though.

Hm, did my funny old brain get things mixed up? Maybe it equates him reading poetry with music! :-D But didn't he chime in once when Marianne was at the piano? No? Pity really. If he doesn't, he should have :-P

[Artemis]

Lol!  Maybe I'm just forgetting, but I don't think so.  It is one of my favorite scenes though when he walks in and sees her singing the first time.  He's utterly smitten from then onward.

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

It was so nice to have a sexy Brandon. If poor Marianne has to end up married to a guy twice her age, at least let him be played by Alan Rickman.