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Posted

he was sitting there because he has to keep quiet about Sherlock's whereabouts and escape

Interesting and believable!

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum!

Posted

Longtime lurker, first time poster, but I had this thought today while re-watching RF for the millionth time today - Mycroft wasn't sitting in the silent room at the end of the episode to grieve, he was sitting there because he has to keep quiet about Sherlock's whereabouts and escape. He is totally, totally in on it.

 

Excellent theory! Welcome to posting. Glad you took the plunge. :D

Posted

Welcome, htmella! :wave2: If you've watched "Reichenbach" a million times, you're definitely in the right place!

 

I used to think Mycroft was grieving, but last night we were watching "Scandal" (for maybe only the thousandth time), and I noticed some evidence that supports your theory. After he gets Moriarty's text and knows that his careful "Bond Air" plans have been ruined, he looks very distraught. After Sherlock's "death" he merely looks thoughtful. And I assume that Mark Gatiss knows whether or not Mycroft is in on it!

 

I hope you keep on posting! :boing:

Posted

Mycroft grieving? the only time that man would grieve is if someone nicked his pet umbrella!

  • Like 1
Posted

It's the hair!

 

This is more of a confirmation of other theories that people have come up with before me. I am a bit late in getting into the game.

 

While I was trying to discern how sherlock survived the fall I was looking for clues to confirm if it was actually sherlock on the ground, that might point me in the general direction of his methods.

 

A first glance I noticed that the coat that is on the body is the same as sherlocks, the upper left button hole has the same red outline as when he is standing on the roof, so I figured there was some way he broke his fall and perhaps drugged himself to appear dead. This would eliminate the body double theory. However clothes are easy to fake, hair isn't.

 

If you look closely the hair on the corpse is slightly different than sherlocks.

 

I would says this is confirmation that there is indeed a body double.

Posted

Hello, Eyeglass -- welcome to Sherlock Forum! :welcome: Thanks for jumping right in with your ideas!

 

You're very observant, to notice a difference in Sherlock's (or somebody's) hair. I can think of three possible explanations -- 1) It wasn't Sherlock lying there, 2) he'd just fallen five stories, so how do we expect his hair to look? 3) for some reason, they used a double when filming (part of) that scene. As I've mentioned before, it's hard for us to know which things are really clues, and which things are merely the way the filming was done.

 

I must admit to being prejudiced against the dummy / body double theories, simply because it's my gut feeling that when Sherlock realized what he had to do, he made an honest job of it, in order to have the best chance of convincing the assassins. (Well, OK, so he cheated just a little bit, he survived, but otherwise it was what you see is what you get. That's my opinion.) Also, when his "body" is turned over, we (and John) have a clear view of his face, and if that isn't the real thing ....

Posted

Just out of curiosity, has anyone looked up the rest of the lyrics for Sherlock's "If I've got you" song?

 

Baby, if I've got you,

I don't need a parachute... (Parachute by Cheryl Cole)

 

Now I don't think he puts on a parachute...but I did wonder if the Homeless Network could catch him on a silk and bundle said silk into a laundry bag...

 

I quite like the pulse stopping (ball) theory and the loads of people as accomplices theory for the rest of the explanation.

 

Also, to respond to the above, I'm sure I read somewhere that it was Ben Cumberbatch on the floor/falling/trolley. I know he did his own stunt for the scene cause I watched the 'filming of' bit. So whether it looks like Sherlock or not, it is 'him'.

Posted

Just out of curiosity, has anyone looked up the rest of the lyrics for Sherlock's "If I've got you" song?

 

 

Baby, if I've got you,

I don't need a parachute... (Parachute by Cheryl Cole)

 

Now I don't think he puts on a parachute...but I did wonder if the Homeless Network could catch him on a silk and bundle said silk into a laundry bag...

 

Yeah, somewhere around here, a while back -- you could try doing a forum search for "parachute." If we take the lyrics literally, you're right, he doesn't need a parachute, because he has some other plan.

 

 

I quite like the pulse stopping (ball) theory and the loads of people as accomplices theory for the rest of the explanation.

Now you've got me thinking of song lyrics about balls, though I can't see how any of them are likely to be relevant!

 

"Like a rubber ball, I come bouncing back to you."

 

and

 

"The morning sun is shining like a red rubber ball."

 

The ball did come bouncing back to Sherlock in the lab, but I believe it was blue -- certainly not red. (Go to bed, Carol.)

Posted

Hello! I thought a lot and now I have my own theory (may be it's very silly) :) Please, sorry for my English, it's not my native language.

 

1. Sherlock wasn't absolutely convinced that he would stay alive. That's why he was nearly in despair, when Moriarty killed himself. (Or didn't kill, I'm not sure in anything, that concerned Moriarty) But he was prepared.

 

2. I think that it was real Sherlock, who fell down from that roof. Watson saw him standing on the edge and didn't look aside when he jumped. During his falling we can notice that he moves, so it's a real alive man. And also I saw that he was very concentrated and even tried to control his motions. I don't know how it happened that he wasn't dead.. May be it's somehow connected with the truck full of packs. Who knows...

 

3. The man with bike didn't hit Watson just by accident. Also people who took away the fallen body knew what was going on. They didn't allow Watson to come closer because they didn't want him to notice Sherlock is alive. BUT HE DID!!! Do you remember his visit to his psychologist? He wanted to say something... I think he wanted to tell that he felt Sherlock's PULSE that day. But he was afraid that his psychologist would convince that it was just because of shock.

 

Also the day before he asked Molly for help with identification and "his" funeral.

The end :)

  • Like 2
Posted

Yes! I was thinking of that scene in "The Great Game" where he is talking to the woman and faking tears. I just didn't mention it in the post, silly me.

Posted

I agree with 221B for the most part, but I do have to disagree that John felt a pulse that day. The little blue ball would have taken care of that, suppressing the blood flow in that arm. Also, John is to open, to honest, just not the actor that Sherlock is. If he can cry like that even after 3 months....that was for real. He actiually things that Sherlock is dead. Just like in the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle story, because....as far as Sir Doyle was concerned, at the time,..... Sherlock Holmes was not coming back.

Posted

...Do you remember his visit to his psychologist? He wanted to say something... I think he wanted to tell that he felt Sherlock's PULSE that day. But he was afraid that his psychologist would convince that it was just because of shock....

I never thought of that! Everyone (including Sherlock, with the rubber ball) was trying to keep John from feeling Sherlock's pulse. But everything had to be done so quickly that it couldn't be quite perfect.

 

In the cemetery scene, I've always thought John's intuition was telling him maybe Sherlock wasn't really dead (though he didn't dare let himself believe it). But maybe it wasn't just his intuition, maybe he had felt a tiny bit of pulse -- not enough to be sure, but enough to hope.

 

 

... John is to open, to honest, just not the actor that Sherlock is. If he can cry like that even after 3 months....that was for real. He actiually things that Sherlock is dead....

I think John really does think that Sherlock is dead -- yet there's just that tiny bit of hope.

 

 

... I have my own theory (may be it's very silly) :) Please, sorry for my English, it's not my native language.

I agree with your theory (so I hope it's not silly!). And your English is very good!

Posted

Mycroft grieving? the only time that man would grieve is if someone nicked his pet umbrella!

 

 

:oJohn? John Watson? Is that really you? Oh. My. God. (passes out)

 

Welcome back, John. :tulip: We've missed you!

 

(turning over in his state, still unconcious, things spinning through his head) We've missed you? What--what about me? I missed you the most out of everyone... I---missed you more than you can ever fathom. :nope_sad:

Posted

Heh, pet umbrella indeed.

 

Caught more thing on my million and third viewing of RF - and went to the screen shots to confirm this because I found it odd and in line with some of the theories about body doubles or there being a group of people to do some kind of trampoline catch and then let him fall on the ground.

 

While speaking to Moriarty, he looks down to observe, and Moriarty makes a remark about an audience: http://sc.aithine.org/sherlock/203/23/sherlock-203-22171.jpg

 

But as we see him fall - after the cut to John, there is no one around his landing place to be seen: http://sc.aithine.org/sherlock/203/25/sherlock-203-24406.jpg

 

The landscape also looks very different and there are no buses.

 

Anyway, just thought I would pass along my Sunday musing. Also, this screenshot site is so awesome (though might be cheating ;-) )

  • Like 1
Posted

Hello again, htmella! I wish I was set up to do screen caps myself, but until I can swing that, I'll definitely have to remember that site -- thanks for posting those links!

 

One reason the two shots look different is that in the ground-level (second) one, a lot of of what we're seeing is out-of-shot to the left of the aerial (first) view. That's why the tree isn't in the first view, for example.

 

Most of the people in the first shot appear to be walking (perhaps having just gotten off the bus, or intending to get on it), and have cleared the area by the second shot. And as you noted, the bus has also left. This could be part of the plot, or could be just everyday goings-on. Quite a puzzle!

 

While watching the episode, have you noticed the mystery vehicle? If you look very closely (literally don't blink or you'll miss it!) from John's point-of-view as he rounds the corner of the single-story building (just before the bicycle hits him), you will see a flatbed truck loaded with large blue, green, and white bags of -- something. By the time John gets back on his feet, it has also left. I strongly suspect it's part of the plot.

  • Like 1
Posted

As Carol said, those two shots are not exactly of the same place, the bus could in fact still be there in the second one and you wouldn't see it due to the angle from which it is taken.

 

While watching the episode, have you noticed the mystery vehicle?

Ah, the laundry/bin truck. I'm in agreement - that probably has got something to do with the plot.
Posted

There's a Q & A on Fanpop about this very subject. Some of the theories are actually well thought out, some people ACTUALLY calculated stuff. The most interesting theory, in my opinion, is the Tessellecta theory. This goes with what people said about The Doctor being in on it. Note, if I spelled Tessellecta wrong, deal with it. I can't be The Grammar Police all the time. Here's the link. http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/sherlock/answers/show/341508/does-anyone-know-how-sherlock-survived

 

And also about the lyrics. "If I've got you, I don't need a parachute." Yes. Obviously, I don't need one because I just simply jump off. That's it. That's how I really survived. In literal terms, I survived because I would still have John. He'd still be there. And I am not entirely sure anyone's thought about this, but what if Jim didn't write those other I.O.U.'s? We know he did the first one, we saw it. But not the other two. He said "I.O.U." as in, I owe you a fall; I owe you your death; dull.

 

But most of you forget that Irene Adler actually owed me/Sherlock because he/I saved her life. What if she returned the favor? I can't honestly believe that she had nothing to do with all of that. And you must pay attention to the way in which the I.O.U.'s were left. One was carved into an apple with a pocket knife (I'm surmising), two was SPRAY-PAINTED onto a window, and three was graffitied onto a wall.

 

Now. A Study In Pink, the message R-A-C-H-E was engraved/scratched onto the floor and there was an engraving on John's phone. The Blind Banker, the Black Lotus left their threats with spray paint in certain places; on certain objects. And Raz was an artist, graffiti artist. Raz is on Sherlock's/my side. Remember when Moriarty said he had a huge client list and he said "terror cells". If you'll remember, Irene was captured and put in a terrorist cell in Karachi.

 

We know that I/Sherlock rescued her from there, but what if Jim also had a hand in that matter? He paid her for her information, she's extremely resourceful and an excellent dominatrix. Do you honestly think he'd sit there and let her be executed? So he helped, she went through the client list, remembering her debt to me/Sherlock gets certain ones to do what she wants. Let me/Sherlock know that she's going to be there.

 

Note, I'm spacing my posts out now so they're easier to read. As someone had minorly complained. But there you are. Another note, I know what actually happened as it was me who faked my own death. But I'm letting you have your theories and showing you things you could examine and think of. As none of you are going to know the truth of the matter until the series returns. So, for now. It's just a magic trick. Houdini...Think of that. Ooh, that's rather good.

Posted

Oh, yes. Reichenbach theories. I have literally drowned myself in Reichenbach Theories the first 2-3 months after I'd seen the Reichenbach Fall for the first time.

There is a crazy amount of theories out there and at least half of them are heart-wrenchingly ridculous.

Some theories that I definitely do not agree with are for example the theory of Molly being the BMX biker that knocked John over. Like, seriously. That's... I mean think what you want but I just don't think that that's very plausible :D

 

Another theory which I am not such a big fan of is the whole 'Moriarty had a mask of Sherlock's face which he used to scare the kids earlier in the episode and Sherlock stole it and threw Moriarty's dead body with the mask on it down the building' thing. I am very very convinced that it is actually Sherlock jumping, as we see him throwing his phone away and spreading out is harms and so on and so on.

 

Mrs Hudson being dragged behind the tombstone is also something I'd object to. It just doesn't look like that to me. SHe is just walking away. No kidnapping. What for, anyway. And surely Sherlock would have noticed? And if SHerlock had anything to do with it- what, for god's sake?

 

One thing that got me very very very excited was this picture here: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz71t9U2xV1qiv5yk.jpg

One sees quite clearly, that Sherlock is holding something in his hand, and to me it doesn't look like a phone or the rubber ball from the lab. I think I also like the idea of Sherlock somehow recording the conversation on the rooftop and that he is thus playing dumb, so that Moriarty explains it all 'on the record' .

 

There are, however, 2 theories I came across on Tumblr that really, really made me think 'YES, this could be something'.

One of them is this one here: http://eva-christine.tumblr.com/post/27733467733/iou-explanation-53-8-92-grimms-fairy-tales-cipher

It's really worth reading it, the person there suggests that we take the I O U as the three chemical elements Iodine, Oxygen and Uranium, or rather their periodic numbers 53, 8 and 92. This person found the original copy of Grimms fairy tales that was used in the show in a library and the fairy tales with the numbers 53, 8 and 92 in there had quite an interesting amount of things in common with the show. (especially the last one, in my opinion, which is about a lonely violinist who goes out looking for a friend. ahem. Sounds familiar?)

 

I don't know if this theory has been pointed out here yet, the second one I'm a fan of definitely has. It's on page 2 or so I believe and it's the one about how Sherlock could have for example used rhododendron ponticum or what it's called to slow his pulse or heartrate to appear dead. This plant also causes a diminution of the pupil. Ever since the first time I watched TRF, I always thought that the very moment, before Moriarty goes 'aaah oh yes you're me you're me', he just must have seen something in Sherlock's eyes. I really, really strongly beliebe that he did. Definitely :D Seeing that Sherlock's pupils are diminuted, along with not being able to feel his pulse when they shook hands (not that someone taking someone's pulse hasn't occured somewhere in this show before ;) ) made him realize, that Sherlock would find a way out.

 

Then again, there is one little point that startles me. I mean, Moriarty had a gun. Moriarty did certainly not just come to the roof of a hospital to have a nice little chat with his arch enemy. He wanted the solution to their 'final problem', I think he wanted Sherlock dead from the beginning. So when he realizes Sherlock is about to win again, why in the damn hell does he kill himself? Smart as he might be, I would probably just have shot Sherlock? Some people say "Well, yeaah, Moriarty doesn't want to live if Sherlock is dead because his life would be boring then" but seriously, Moriarty may be as obsessed with Sherlock as we all are, but I really don't think he would go as far as to choose Sherlock's life over his own. He would surely have found another way of distraction.

That's one thing that I am currently trying to figure out, because I just... don't get why he shot himself instead of Sherlock. Really just because he doesn't want to end their 'game' in such an unfair way? I don't know :/

 

My english probably is TERRIBLE at some parts here and I apologize in advance for all the stupid mistakes that might have made my post kind of hard to understand :)

  • Like 2
Posted

 

That's one thing that I am currently trying to figure out, because I just... don't get why he shot himself instead of Sherlock. Really just because he doesn't want to end their 'game' in such an unfair way? I don't know :/

You see, Otterlysherlocked, James Moriarty was so intent on destroying me/Sherlock that he would have even killed himself in order to do it. Which he did. He was a bit insane, even for a criminal mastermind.

 

My english probably is TERRIBLE at some parts here and I apologize in advance for all the stupid mistakes that might have made my post kind of hard to understand :)

 

No, it's actually quite good. Congratulations. And I'll try not to be too hard on your mistakes either. You're probably easier to understand than I am. :lol:

  • Like 1
Posted

Otterlysherlocked, Moriarty did not kill Sherlock with his gun simply because if Sherlock had a bullet in his head without a suicide proclamation it would make it very hard to believe that Sherlock killed himself, ruining Moriarty’s plan to discredit Sherlock. Moriarty killed himself so he could win.

By killing himself he ultimately won, he has the last laugh and (in theory) no one can change that.

Moriaty has a narcissistic personality. No one matters except himself and he would rather kill himself than loose. In his mind he stopped Sherlock from being able to save his friends by killing himself.

"Abandon your ideals, your hopes and your dreams, they'll kill you someday." Anna Writer

  • Like 1
Posted

I don't know if this theory has been pointed out here yet, the second one I'm a fan of definitely has. It's on page 2 or so I believe and it's the one about how Sherlock could have for example used rhododendron ponticum or what it's called to slow his pulse or heartrate to appear dead. This plant also causes a diminution of the pupil. Ever since the first time I watched TRF, I always thought that the very moment, before Moriarty goes 'aaah oh yes you're me you're me', he just must have seen something in Sherlock's eyes. I really, really strongly beliebe that he did. Definitely :D Seeing that Sherlock's pupils are diminuted, along with not being able to feel his pulse when they shook hands (not that someone taking someone's pulse hasn't occured somewhere in this show before ;) ) made him realize, that Sherlock would find a way out.

I like that theory. But I don't understand how it fits the Moriarty quote "Yes, you are me!". How is it like Moriarty to fake his own death? And also it doesn't fit what he says after that "As long as I'm alive you can save your friends." Moriarty doesn't kill himself, because he lost. He kills himself in order to win.

 

I don't know how that is, yet.

 

However, I have a theory about a laser point on Sherlock's forehead. Sherlock has his own sniper on a roof nearby, showing Moriarty that he, Sherlock, is prepared to be killed by this sniper. If that hapened, Moriarty would lose, because Sherlock would not die in disgrace. Sherlock would die as a hero. Although Sherlock doesn't care about his reputation, he knows that Moriarty does very much. If Sherlock was killed by a sniper, the public would think, Moriarty was real and Sherlock not a fraud, and then Moriarty would lose the game. Sherlock is bluffing, of course. At least, partially. He is sure, that Moriarty would rather call the killers off, than lose the game that way.

 

So? What happens on the roof? Moriarty sees the laster point on Sherlock's forehead (the "Yes, you are me!" refers to the laser pointer thing, because it's Moriarty's "style") and realizes that Sherlock found a way out. And Sherlock is right: Moriarty wants to win the game so badly, that he'd rather call the killers off (and continue playing the game later). But then Moriarty finds his own way out. Before Sherlock can get himself killed by the sniper or threaten to do so, Moriarty kills himself, which leaves Sherlock no choice. He has to jump. ... ... Just a theory. It's not perfect, but I like it.

Posted

I'm skeptical of the Rhododendron ponticum theory for two reasons: 1) I believe there are much simpler explanations, and 2) it would be extremely tricky to pull off. R. ponticum extract is a poison that can also be used, in carefully controlled doses, for the effects mentioned above. The precise dose would presumably depend on individual tolerance, among other factors, so Sherlock would have needed to experiment on himself ahead of time, to make sure he didn't actually poison himself. Also, drastically slowing one's pulse will surely cause one to become sluggish -- not exactly the state one would choose when one is in dire need of one's wits.

 

 

... Moriarty doesn't kill himself, because he lost. He kills himself in order to win.

How succinctly put!

 

 

However, I have a theory about a laser point on Sherlock's forehead. Sherlock has his own sniper on a roof nearby, showing Moriarty that he, Sherlock, is prepared to be killed by this sniper. If that hapened, Moriarty would lose, because ... the public would think, Moriarty was real and Sherlock not a fraud, .. Sherlock is bluffing, of course. At least, partially.... But then Moriarty finds his own way out. Before Sherlock can get himself killed by the sniper ..., Moriarty kills himself, which leaves Sherlock no choice. He has to jump. ...

You're kidding me! There's a laser on Sherlock? You mean I've watched this episode, oh, I don't know, maybe five million times, and I never noticed that? Oh, shucks -- now I'll have to force myself to go watch it again!

 

OK, so hmm -- the laser could have been Moriarty's henchmen threatening Sherlock -- but of course they couldn't actually shoot him without making Moriarty's plan backfire (because as you say, no one would believe that Sherlock had had himself shot) -- and surely Moriarty realizes that Sherlock knows that. And I do believe that Sherlock would willingly die (as a last option) before allowing Moriarty to to kill his friends. So yes, Sherlock could have hired that particular sniper (or possibly just someone with a laser pointer).

 

What I don't understand, though, is why Moriarty would think that killing himself would force Sherlock to jump.

Posted

You are right about both 1) and 2). Especially the first point really hit me. Of course. It has to be an easy explanation. The easier the explanation, the greater the "Oh! Of course!"-reaction, while still being believable.

 

You're kidding me! There's a laser on Sherlock? You mean I've watched this episode, oh, I don't know, maybe five million times, and I never noticed that? Oh, shucks -- now I'll have to force myself to go watch it again!

Oh, no. Sorry. I must have expressed it confusingly (happens a lot with me ;) ). No, there isn't a laser on Sherlock. At least I haven't found it yet. But there could most definitely be one. The sun shines on Sherlock's face at the same time Moriarty sees or realizes something, so we - the audience - can't see Sherlock's face clearly. So the laser theory is possible. I'm not sure about it, though. But what else could Moriarty see, that makes him think he lost the game, unless he kills himself?

 

The crucial thing is: What is Moriarty's weakness?

Is it his fear of losing?

Is it his fear of boredom?

... He surely doesn't have a loved one, he wants to protect, does he?

 

 

 

What I don't understand, though, is why Moriarty would think that killing himself would force Sherlock to jump.

In my theory: when Moriarty acts fast enough and kills himself before Sherlock can threaten to be killed (and convince Moriarty to stop the whole thing), then Moriarty can't call off the killers, because he is... well, dead. And then Sherlock has to jump, to protect his friends. But the theory is not perfect. ... The main problem is: when Sherlock is killed by his own sniper, what would make Moriarty call off the killers? Nothing. So Moriarty must know Sherlock is only bluffing. ... ... Well, I still have to work on this theory. :D

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