Speculation: What Would You Like To See In Series 3?

[Karie]

 

 

 

Oh, thank you. Neither am I, but I am afraid that that is exactly what we're going to get - for reasons of political correctness, because there have been accusations of sexism directed at the series (or rather, the people behind it).

 

 

 

My reason is not that I don't want anybody "between" the main characters. I don't think they're supposed to be a romantic couple, "just" really good friends, and in a good friendship, there's always room for other people (which is why I find friendship in many ways more appealing than romance, but that is another story).

 

In the old stories (do read them, they're so much fun! You can get them for free on the internet - legally, because they're so old they're not copyright protected anymore), Mary has no real point, as far as I can see. I think she was introduced in "The Sign of Four", because Doyle thought the novel would sell better if there was a love story in it (back then, very few people would have as much as  dreamed of seeing that between Holmes and Watson).  Also, getting Watson married might have been a device to end the series, because he says at the end of "The Sign of Four" that he won't be able to work with Holmes anymore (in response, Holmes dismally groans and reaches for the cocaine bottle).

 

After that, Mary in the books is very much like the baby you describe. She sometimes has a few lines at the beginning of a story and her role there is usually encouraging Dr Watson to go help out Holmes - that's it.

 

I think when Doyle resurrected his hero, he killed her off because he found it annoying to have to explain for every case why Watson was there. So he just sent him back to Baker St as a widower - and even in the original, saving money was not the point for Holmes then (he even paid money to make it happen), so your theory about why Sherlock was looking for a flat share in the first place is actually pretty interesting.

 

Getting back to modern Sherlock and what I want to see: I like the idea of Mary because I think John deserves to be happily married. Sherlock might have nothing left to wish for with a nice murder to figure out and a trusty helper to do so, but John seems to be more like a "normal" human being, at least when it comes to love and sex. I also see a lot of potential humor in that constellation, stemming from Sherlock's attitude about those things. There are plenty of hints in the source that Holmes thought Watson's marriage was unnecessary and inconvenient, and he thinks nothing of ordering his friend to just tell his wife (by telegram), that he's not coming home for a while because of some pressing case.

 

Finally, while Mary herself does not play a big role in the original, a lot of the stories feature a brave and beautiful woman, usually the client of the day, who is actively involved in whatever adventure unravels (Miss Stoner, for example, or Violet Hunter). So it's like a woman belongs somewhere in there and instead of introducing a different one each time (whom Dr Watson fawns over and Holmes "handles like a specimen"), it might be nice to just have one permanent character.

 

So why don't I want a fully fledged crime solving trio? Because the more people are like Sherlock, the less special he becomes.

 

 

Yeah, people have been throwing that sexism/racism card around for Doctor Who a lot, too.  I'm a feminist myself, but I think that a lot of people just go looking for something to be offended about in some cases. 

 

I've always been a big shipper in all of my fandoms, but I agree that sometimes a friendship is just so much more special.  I don't really see John and Sherlock as being romantic (though I will certainly read a good Johnlock fic if it's well written!), because I feel like their relationship transcends sex. I don't know what it is about a good bromance that's so appealing, but I fall for it every time. There's something so special about a pair of guys who become best friends. That whole "band of brothers" thing. 

 

Thanks for the canon info on the books! I really have to get around to reading them, especially if they're so readily available online. 

 

I hope they don't end up killing Mary off.  That just seems like an excessive way to torture John, after he just spent two years thinking his best friend was dead.  

 

I am a little interested to see how things have changed for him in regards to how he prioritizes things. We've seen, in the past, that it was hard for him to have a successful relationship, going from woman to woman because, apparently, he always put Sherlock first, to the dismay of his girlfriends.  Now that Sherlock has been out of the picture for a while he's managed to find a lasting relationship, but what happens when Sherlock comes back? 

 

Speaking of wanting more than to solve crimes, and love and sex, I wonder if Irene Adler will be making another appearance? I'm not particularly fond of her, but it always felt like her story was left very open-ended for a possible return. Although, from what I've gathered from discussion of the books, it seems like her story was a one-shot? 

 

I definitely agree about not wanting to detract from Sherlock's "specialness"! 

 

 

Welcome to the Forum, Karie! Fabulous having you here, really! So glad you found us.

 

 

He barely seemed to be holding down his job at the clinic the first time around! I'm still wondering how he made rent. I'm assuming he had begun collecting payment on the cases he helped Sherlock solve.  I also suspect that, as Sherlock seemed pretty well off (and I doubt he really did need a flat share to help him make rent), Sherlock possibly lied to John about the cost of the rent and was paying the lion's share. (Or at least, that's my sweet little head canon.) I think, for Sherlock, getting a roomie was never really about the money, but rather an attempt (possibly subconscious) to reach out to someone in all his loneliness.  

 

  In canon, Dr. John H. Watson does become a very well to do doctor, and a husband, and Sherlock Holmes's biographer. The first paying very well, not sure if Sherlock paid him in money, but anyway, as you say, Sherlock did seem to be well off so Watson didn't have to worry about money there. And yes, in the books it does state that Sherlock Holmes paid Mrs. Hudson a princely sum of money for 221b. Enough to have been able to by the whole house many times over.

 

Thanks so much! 

That's very interesting. Sherlock's apparent nonchalance about money (he wasn't trying to get paid for consulting with police, he scoffed at Sebastian's proffered payment for his work on the bank case, and he didn't bat an eye when telling John to take his card for the groceries), not to mention the way he dresses and the choice of car rental when he went to Baskerville (unless a Land Rover goes for a lot cheaper in the UK than it does in the US!) all suggest that he's very well off.  I assume it's family money, possibly an inheritance from his mother (if she is, in fact, deceased).  So little has been said (but so much hinted at) about his family, I'd really like to see some background there. 

 

I'm also curious to see if the Asperger's was an actual diagnosis or just John's guess. 

 

Wow, I veered very far off of topic there! I'm just desperate for backstory on Sherlock! 

 

 

 

I was thinking there was really no way for him to know when/if John would show up, and John's timing was so precise... but then I remembered that bike rider slamming into him as he tried to cross the street, and that always felt very staged to me, so obvious that the guy was meant to keep John from getting to "the body" too quickly.

 

I assume that Sherlock simply waited for John to return, then proceeded with his plan.  But then after his goodbye speech, I agree, the bicycle was to keep John from getting to Sherlock before they had everything arranged.

 

I'm curious as to how the marriage will be portrayed. I'm certainly not interested in a Three's Company of Consulting Detectives. And I really want John and Sherlock to be flatmates again, without a third-wheel moving in. I'm wondering if Mary will be a permanent fixture, or a plot device (as, sadly, I have not yet read the original works, I have no clue what her role in the works of ACD was meant to be)

 

Another forum member (and I'm too groggy right now to be absolutely certain who, so I won't say) has stated that marrying off Watson was ACD's first (unsuccessful) attempt to end the Holmes series.  Shortly thereafter, he bowed to public pressure and began writing the stories again, but Mary was never again a major character (more like the baby you mentioned).

 

My guess is that Moftiss wouldn't have brought Mary into the show if they hadn't figured out how to make her into a real character, serving a real purpose in the plots.  I don't think you need to worry that she'll get in the way -- we've already got lots of other continuing characters, but that doesn't stop the focus from being on Sherlock and John.

 

I'm still wondering how [John] made rent. I'm assuming he had begun collecting payment on the cases he helped Sherlock solve.  I also suspect that, as Sherlock seemed pretty well off (and I doubt he really did need a flat share to help him make rent), Sherlock possibly lied to John about the cost of the rent and was paying the lion's share. .... I think, for Sherlock, getting a roomie was never really about the money, but rather an attempt (possibly subconscious) to reach out to someone in all his loneliness.

 

Right, I assume that Sherlock and John were splitting the fees they collected, or just applying them directly to the rent.  Each of them had their own independent income (John's pension and Sherlock's -- umm -- family trust fund?) which they could use for personal expenses like clothing.  Interesting conjecture about Sherlock wanting the company more than needing to split the rent -- though I doubt that he'd ever admit it, even to himself.

 

 

 

That's a good point about all the other continuing characters.  I hope you're right about Mary being a well-thought out addition to the cast.  Being a Doctor Who fan, well, let's just say Moffat makes me nervous. 

 

Oh, you're right, he would never admit that in a million years! And maybe on some level, too, he wanted to prove that he was capable of not being a loner. I think he's well aware of how other people see him. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, people have been throwing that sexism/racism card around for Doctor Who a lot, too.  I'm a feminist myself, but I think that a lot of people just go looking for something to be offended about in some cases. 

 

I too believe that some people can be overly jumpy about such things -- but that doesn't mean there's never anything to be jumpy about.  I personally don't care for how Moffat treated Irene Adler, but that's partly because I really liked her in the ACD story.  If I'd never read that, I would probably have liked the episode somewhat better.

 

I don't really see John and Sherlock as being romantic ..., because I feel like their relationship transcends sex. .... There's something so special about a pair of guys who become best friends....

 

Yeah -- but why is that?  (I keep telling myself that it's nothing like guys watching "lesbian" videos.) 

 

I hope they don't end up killing Mary off.  That just seems like an excessive way to torture John, after he just spent two years thinking his best friend was dead.  

 

I am a little interested to see how things have changed for him in regards to how he prioritizes things. We've seen, in the past, that it was hard for him to have a successful relationship, going from woman to woman because, apparently, he always put Sherlock first, to the dismay of his girlfriends.  Now that Sherlock has been out of the picture for a while he's managed to find a lasting relationship, but what happens when Sherlock comes back?

 

A divorce could be pretty traumatic for John as well.  From what very few clues I've seen about Series 3, I suspect they're doing a nice organic job of working Mary into the story.  I'm hoping she'll last.

 

I wonder if Irene Adler will be making another appearance? .... Although, from what I've gathered from discussion of the books, it seems like her story was a one-shot?

 

You're right on that last part, she appeared only in "Scandal in Bohemia" (though I can't swear she was never mentioned again).  Lara Pulver has hinted pretty broadly that she'd be available if needed.  I kinda hope they give her a bit of a rest, though.

 

I'm also curious to see if the Asperger's was an actual diagnosis or just John's guess.

 

Judging by the hesitant way John said the word, I assume that was just an educated guess, nothing he was at all sure about.

 

That's a good point about all the other continuing characters.  I hope you're right about Mary being a well-thought out addition to the cast.  Being a Doctor Who fan, well, let's just say Moffat makes me nervous. 

 

You might take comfort in the fact that Moffat's episode is at the end this time.  So Mary should already be a good, solid, well-established character by then.

 

[Karie]

 

I too believe that some people can be overly jumpy about such things -- but that doesn't mean there's never anything to be jumpy about.  I personally don't care for how Moffat treated Irene Adler, but that's partly because I really liked her in the ACD story.  If I'd never read that, I would probably have liked the episode somewhat better.

 

 

 

I definitely agree that sometimes the jumpiness is warranted! 

 

I'd be interested in your view of how Moffat treated Adler. I really haven't given it much thought, but now that I've been able to read a few fan reactions online, it seems like more than a few people are unhappy with her portrayal. Is this due to something specific, or a deviation of how she was written in the books? Or something else? 

 

A divorce could be pretty traumatic for John as well.  From what very few clues I've seen about Series 3, I suspect they're doing a nice organic job of working Mary into the story.  I'm hoping she'll last.

 

 

 

It definitely could! I suppose all will be revealed soon. Or, you know, some time in this decade, if we're lucky! 

 

 

You're right on that last part, she appeared only in "Scandal in Bohemia" (though I can't swear she was never mentioned again).  Lara Pulver has hinted pretty broadly that she'd be available if needed.  I kinda hope they give her a bit of a rest, though.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Although, I have been curious about where she ended up after the attempted beheading. I wonder if she actually did get herself into witness protection somewhere? And how she's taking care of herself now that she's probably being forced to lie low and stay out of the sex-worker business.  

 

 

I accidentally deleted the part of your quote about the Asperger's, but for now I think I will agree that John was just guessing.  Though, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Sherlock had been subjected to several attempted diagnoses as a child. I'm imagining him as Sheldon Cooper... "I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested." 

 

 

 

 

You might take comfort in the fact that Moffat's episode is at the end this time.  So Mary should already be a good, solid, well-established character by then.

 

 

 

Good to know!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'd be interested in your view of how Moffat treated Adler. I really haven't given it much thought, but now that I've been able to read a few fan reactions online, it seems like more than a few people are unhappy with her portrayal. Is this due to something specific, or a deviation of how she was written in the books? Or something else?

 

Mostly that I don't think Moffat's Irene is analogous to ACD's Miss Adler.  I've said a bit about that earlier on this thread, and also in another thread.  If those don't answer your questions, please let me know and I'll be glad to elaborate.

 

[Karie]

 

I'd be interested in your view of how Moffat treated Adler. I really haven't given it much thought, but now that I've been able to read a few fan reactions online, it seems like more than a few people are unhappy with her portrayal. Is this due to something specific, or a deviation of how she was written in the books? Or something else?

 

Mostly that I don't think Moffat's Irene is analogous to ACD's Miss Adler.  I've said a bit about that earlier on this thread, and also in another thread.  If those don't answer your questions, please let me know and I'll be glad to elaborate.

 

 

I'm definitely going to check those out tomorrow after work. Thanks for the links! And now, my bed is calling. Good night!  

[Carol the Dabbler]

Sounds good to me! 

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

I hope they don't end up killing Mary off.  That just seems like an excessive way to torture John, after he just spent two years thinking his best friend was dead. 

 

It wouldn't work dramatically to have John standing at somebody's grave again, I think. There's also no reason to kill her in this version of the story, so I don't think they will. I expect her to become a permanent feature. I know I am repeating myself, but if they for some reason wanted to end Watson's marriage, a divorce would be quite enough.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I don't really see John and Sherlock as being romantic ..., because I feel like their relationship transcends sex. .... There's something so special about a pair of guys who become best friends....

 

Yeah -- but why is that?  (I keep telling myself that it's nothing like guys watching "lesbian" videos.) 

 

 

I am afraid it is a bit like that. Men enjoy an image of women being more like them (sex-crazed) and we dream of men being more like us (sensitive, emotional, capable of maintaining a close relationship without sex as a motivator).

 

But, remember, all those band of brothers stories were written by men and so were Holmes and Watson. Maybe they are more like us than we think! At least some of them...

[Carol the Dabbler]

... or at least they know what we like! 

 

[T.o.b.y]

... or at least they know what we like! 

 

Ooooh, that is my favorite Ireneism: "There was a man and I knew what he liked..." I think I do want to see her again and to hell with artistic scruples. (And speaking of her proclaiming herself gay and still being attracted to Sherlock: I'm engaged to a guy and I still think she's hot.)

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think I agree with Alex that her assistant Kate is hotter    in her own quiet way.

 

[T.o.b.y]

I love to analyze the characters' personalities and motivations and trying to figure out their complex relationships and I definitely spend more time thinking about those aspects of the show than the crime and action parts. But I do hope it won't degenerate into some kind of soap opera. The hints for the second episode give no clue whatsoever as to what case(s) it will feature. "The Sign of Four", which obviously lent itself to the title, has been exhausted in "The Blind Banker", I think. And "wedding" means John's wedding, I presume. An episode about nothing more than John getting married, Sherlock being okay with that and the three of them getting along really well under The Sign of Three - that just can't be the plan, can it? Oh god, please no.

 

I hope and almost believe that John's wedding will not be as uneventful as such occasions usually are and I also hope that they tied some of the original cases that deal with marriage into John and Mary's story. Mary in the original is pretty boring and Sarah was a lot like her already. So maybe, maybe they were daring enough to add people like the runaway bride in "The Noble Bachelor" to her portfolio - or the female character in "The Solitary Cyclist". Just as long as they do something with her besides "John's wife" or "the third detective".

[sherlockandjohn]

Besides the obvious reunions, and finding out how Sherlock faked his suicide, I'd like to see these things:

 

1. Sherlock and Mary become friends gradually, with lots of bantering and silly arguments. I could imagine some hilarious stuff with Sherlock acting like a spoiled child, vying for John's attention :-)
2. A Molly Hooper who has finally gained some confidence with Sherlock and gets the chance to tell him off. Sherlock deserves it!   Obviously I LOVE Sherlock, but he is sometimes horrible to Molly.
3. Greg and Molly together would be nice... I've heard rumours, but only rumours.
4. One scene (just one) in which Sherlock - very discretely - acknowledges that Mycroft cares about him. It needs to be discrete in order to be in-character, but I would like to see that happen, just once.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

One scene (just one) in which Sherlock - very discretely - acknowledges that Mycroft cares about him. It needs to be discrete in order to be in-character, but I would like to see that happen, just once.

 

  Maybe just before Sherlock has to disappear from England or when he just gets back after his hiatus?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

With the air date supposedly pretty near, I am getting more and more apprehensive. I've liked the show so well so far, it seems a bit too good to be true that it will continue and stay great.

 

Of course I never dreamed of my immense wish list (continually growing) to really come true (some items probably wouldn't even work in reality), but there are a few things I definitely do not want to see:

 

A lot of hugging and sobbing

Moriarty still alive because he somehow managed to fake blowing his brains out

A solution to the Reichenbach Fall that involves multiple body switches, evil twins, masks, dream sequences or hallucinations

Any more faked deaths

Any real death of a main character

Sherlock forming any kind of permanent romantic relationship

Sherlock and Mycroft getting along really well and loving each other very much

Sherlock becoming a really nice, caring, considerate, perfect human being

An episode without a decent case

An episode without Sherlock (don't you dare dig out that flashback idea, Mr Thompson, at least not in full length)

 

And I definitely do not want to hear an entirely different score. I do hope the music in the recent trailer is not a sample of what we'll hear during the episodes.

 

Ooof, that was a bit negative. I actually felt the same way before series 2 and that turned out just fine.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

... there are a few things I definitely do not want to see:

 

A lot of hugging and sobbing

Moriarty still alive because he somehow managed to fake blowing his brains out

A solution to the Reichenbach Fall that involves multiple body switches, evil twins, masks, dream sequences or hallucinations

Any more faked deaths

Any real death of a main character

Sherlock forming any kind of permanent romantic relationship

Sherlock and Mycroft getting along really well and loving each other very much

Sherlock becoming a really nice, caring, considerate, perfect human being

An episode without a decent case

An episode without Sherlock (don't you dare dig out that flashback idea, Mr Thompson, at least not in full length)

 

I agree with all of those items (give or take some interpretation of "a lot," etc.).

 

And I definitely do not want to hear an entirely different score. I do hope the music in the recent trailer is not a sample of what we'll hear during the episodes.

 

Technically speaking, it was not entirely different -- I know there was a snippet of the familiar upbeat "Sherlock's on a roll" theme (as I call it).  Don't recall what else was in there, but considering that the trailer was a bunch of quick clips all stuck together, that music must have been written specifically for the trailer.  But even if all of it is music from S3, that's only one minute out of 270 -- there will still be lots of time for "The Violins of Death," I'm sure!

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

They talked about the new violin that they gave BC to use in Season 3....the wood has a "flame" motif to it and they say that even the notes have a "hot" or "fiery" quality to them. Not sure exactly how that translate but it should really be interesting to hear.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

 

  Maybe just before Sherlock has to disappear from England or when he just gets back after his hiatus?

 

 

As long as it doesn't get too sentimental... Don't want to change the balance of their difficult relationship.

 

I might imagine a scene in which Mycroft is in danger, and Sherlock comes to the rescue. A convincing way of showing concern without actually saying anything. Works for Sherlock and John :-)

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

As long as it doesn't get too sentimental... Don't want to change the balance of their difficult relationship.

 

 

   It may change though, especially if Sherlock has been forced to "grow up" due to all he had to face and think about in the events leading up to the "Reichenbach Fall" and all it's aftermath. I think Gatiss hinted at this in one of the roundtable discussions. That Sherlock will be more mature and open.

[T.o.b.y]

 

 I think Gatiss hinted at this in one of the roundtable discussions. That Sherlock will be more mature and open.

 

 

*Sigh* He is growing up, then... oh well. It was bound to happen. I'm going to miss the sociopath, but I'm pretty sure I'll like whoever comes next, just as long as it's Sherlock. And while the creative team and the actor stay the same, the character can't really change too much. I hope.

 

[T.o.b.y]

...on second thoughts, a thoroughly grown-up, mature version of my favorite character might come across as more self-sufficient and shut up those who like to proclaim him totally dependent on somebody (specific) to look after him. I do like that prospect.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

He will still be his quirky shelf, there are some personality traits that just cannot be changed or gotten rid of altogether, but what Sherlock experienced at the Fall and what the character must have gone through in those three years of chasing down Moriarty's crime web, it would be a life changer for anyone. It seems, in the Gatiss/Moffat Universe, some of the changes will be for the better.

[sherlockandjohn]

He will still be his quirky shelf, there are some personality traits that just cannot be changed or gotten rid of altogether, but what Sherlock experienced at the Fall and what the character must have gone through in those three years of chasing down Moriarty's crime web, it would be a life changer for anyone. It seems, in the Gatiss/Moffat Universe, some of the changes will be for the better.

 

I've been wondering about this - logically, what you're saying would be true in real life, but this is after all a TV show. I guess I imagined that they would keep Sherlock pretty much the same, but just continue to develop his character very subtly, like they've done in the first two series. But if they have taken a leap with his character, that would also make sense.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I've been wondering about this - logically, what you're saying would be true in real life, but this is after all a TV show. I guess I imagined that they would keep Sherlock pretty much the same, but just continue to develop his character very subtly, like they've done in the first two series.

 

Oh, you're giving me hope! I do wish you're right. No leaps, please.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

I've been wondering about this - logically, what you're saying would be true in real life, but this is after all a TV show. I guess I imagined that they would keep Sherlock pretty much the same, but just continue to develop his character very subtly, like they've done in the first two series.

 

Oh, you're giving me hope! I do wish you're right. No leaps, please.

 

 

Of course it's just speculation on my part  but I honestly doubt that we will see a big change in Sherlock's character. It's been established by now. Some character development is always important, though.