BlackButterfly

Hello TY. lots of people saying it's very platonic :-) May I perhaps ask them a Q. Setting platonic canon aside , and meeting this SH for the first time in Pink ,what makes you think Sherlock isn't gay? Briefly in s01 we see him think his new friend John asked him on a date and brush him off with the dedicated to my work. Then everyone that knows Sherlock treats him as gay. In TBB he sort of suggests a date after all but gets sort of turned down. When Jim from IT enters , again Sherlock thinks correctly - gay hitting on me. When the genius criminal reveal happens we learn , maybe some heart for John and not so busy at work....so uh gay right? In s02 So far Sherlock has shown no interest in women sexually at all even when they are obviously attracted to him. By the end we learn the genius criminal has based his whole big game on Sherlock being willing to sacrifice himself for John.Which he is. So still gay? In 03 Sherlock begs for forgiveness , rushes into a fire and does his best to make everything up to John . Being best man planning the wedding flowers bridesmaids teaching his friend John to dance etc he has almost given up the work he loves to make his friend happy, well unless John wants a case.At the wedding he acts a lot like aa bride and then leaves early after deducing they wont need him about any more. Shortly after that he writes a catty blog about his friends sex holiday and turns up high in a drugs den. Jumping to the end , once again , Sherlock forvies his friends wife of shooting him , attempts to fix his friends marriage and then kills a man giving eveything up to keep them all safe. Finally before before going off to die he tells John , to the best of times ,with john I assume , and yes I'm a bit of a girl I always have been. HuH Still gay then? How do you read Sherlock as anything but gay not dating cos work , and oh in love with best friend without making an assumption before you even met him. Thats amused me :-)

Lol@arcadia. Trick cyclist . psychiatrist. Bicycle . Bisexual.

J P. Could possibly be pheasants they have a bit of a tail and theres the shooting thing so match. But they are yellow and blue which seems more parrot cols.Though that might look brown and red to you lol. Pink Roses on Sholtos wall you say, maybe they mean something?

Thank you . Thats all fine then .Phew! I will mention a simple one of the reasons I think the subtext is sexual but theres quite a few others I won't blah you with it. Molly crushes on Sherlock so lipstick , Sherlock doesn't like it so she washes it off saying " it wasn't working for me " Sherlock still doesn't like it.Then Molly gets into a relationship with Jim (maybe to make SH jealous?) and they have a Glee night.But turns out Jim was a psycopath and killed himself on Barts roof. HuH Molly gets over him.She meets Tom and he is nothing like Sherlock and they are having lots of sex! Toms cool but huh meat dagger. John has the moustache Sherlock doesn't like it, so off with it ,saying to SH " it wasn't working for me " Sherlock- likes it .John had a date with Sarah but Sherlock and John have a Bond night but turns out Sherlock was a sociopath and killed himself off Barts roof. HuH. John gets over Sherlock and meets Mary who is nothing like Sherlock and they are having lots of sex ! Marys cool but huh.Assasin. So I tried to keep it simple but maybe you see what I mean.How many coincidences ,and then is Jim gay idk ,Johns not gay idk , bicycles anyone? Ok maybe they faked deaths but gist , all those rainbows when Molly says about the sex , why film it like that through glass?, and ok it's different for Molly she's a girl and Sherlocks not ...but then the Sherlocks a girls name.Just like Harry was Harriet all along. Basically Molly and John are the same and they both get over Sherlock by having lots of sex with someone not at all like Sherlock.So.Over. It. Really doesn't mean they might fancy Sherlock that way.nope. And by the way , I don't prefer them to be that way or the other , for me it's never going to make a difference to any of the stories. The more fun stuff is like are ALL the flowers and plants on Sherlocks grave poisonous or just some. IDK? But lol Who left those. Did John really enter that pin number for Sherlocks card .cos if so .ASIB becomes hilarious.But wait. Not quite.They messed that up. Wallpaper. ?huh? Arwel W J mentions it a few times for various things..OK I'll look. Birds.Irenes bedroom is that a bird of paradise..apropos...Mrs Hudders oh look those pet house birds maybe idk but birds.Mary ? Parrots and a butterfly..well ok she changed..into a Parrot..does she parrot peolple...yes she does. And TRF painting. Standing right behind the wall it's on is Sherlock saying-you and I are similar I think we know when to die....etc..wouldn't do that to John would we.-Sholto opens door. Ok Sherlock died at Barts not TRF so wrong? OR is that Sholtos fall. Sholto/Sherlock did something terrible in the past , TRF/deaths crows , they both feel really guilty about it, both have people that hated them for it, both have people that want to kill them , both antisocial , but both making an effort to be at Johns Wedding. (1 think ) So maybe Sholto , like Sherlock , hurt John in some way too , thus guilt , and that's why he made the effort to come to the wedding and thats why he really opened the door. Sherlock and Sholto -can make so many the sames. Can you get that from one painting....easily and much more.

I view Sherlock like fans view Dr Who. The same writers. They put in many many easter eggs and fun things to find..and clues...I thought the very few things I have mentioned were well known by people..they are right there on screen and they are funny or interesting and meaningful and the obvious ones were tweeted under #Sherlock quite a long time ago .I thought you guys maybe had talked about in another thread -some of this -the millenium wheel thing is from TBB years ago. Theres sa whole lot of stuff that isn't even S@J stuff idk why people zoom in on a sex thing?.I really didn't expect to have a pics or it didn't happen thing begin. And yes two versions Moffat has written pre Sherlock of Holmes@Watson were gay women -in Who and in Jeckyl. I have said the surface story is as is as canon is canon. The subtext is more controversial because obviously a lot of people do get a gay vibe from it with the flags and 57 other things - doesn't surprise me at all considering the cast and crew included it in most of their other stuff. If I have broken protocol I apologise. I read it was polite to reply when people quote you or ask Questions about what you have said. I seem to be too nerdy a fan.....

http://artborghi.com/2013/08/25/water-please-frozen-not-shaken/ Actual photos from TRF .Look pretty close to me. Some paintings of TRF look just like that. I bought one similar as a touristy thing. Pictues of sll the bridges above S@J in Kittys flat would be cool. I can only see well enough to ID 3 of the bridges. :-) kissing fan art - On Andersons fire shelf/mantle ?, direct centre , after TRF theory/explanation from Sherlock when he walks around around Anderson. Might be 2, theres definitely been about 5 elephants by now in just those 2 places.

Thoughts on the subtext are that they couldn't sell a show that was like that to certain parts of the world from the start. So maybe they hide some of the story and sneak it into the subtext , a bit like a bomb on the underground subway , and they leave clues and hints that get bigger and bigger until they are right in your face ,like elephants, and then you watch people imagine the bomb going off and you laugh and laugh and laugh as everyone scrambles for the off switch....and say oh huh what isn't that all very...long ago. Because by then it won't matter , the idea is planted in peoples head and you can't kill an idea and something something hiding in plain sight, we did tell/show you but did you listen/look. So it really doesn't matter if the bomb explodes or not because the show was a huge success and the people that paid for this - are entertained and laughing too and really don't care much either way cos all that political stuff with Elton John getting hitched and the first gay bishop and the judges and MPs-was so- a decade ago. So the subtext story is different and....is very interesting..and hilarious.....but yes interpretational accordingly...I think one of the writers said - the haitus is very long so we like to give you things to look at...or maybe it was talk about.

Thats the very Q I was hoping people might have thoughts or ideas on. The creative people talk about theee things at awards and Hay festival and such but there seems to be nothing much said otherwise.I know some artsy papers carried the wheel story. Does anyone ask them.....at the con it was almost all the usual questions that have been asked and answered before....and theese kinds of things..the general viewer doesn't notice unless they observe and think...and the answers are always a bit..interpretational. Why the painting of TRF on Sholtos wall...and Moriarty @ those pics up on Kittys wall...and Andersons john/sherlock kissing fan art on his fireshelf.....whats with the elephants everywhere and getting bigger until theres an actual live elephant in the freaking room..I know some of it but......your guess is as good as mine.

Oh LOLSorry wedding-Mourning. I thought it was more a ref.to the giallo film trope...HLV was quite femme fatal- noir and I know Gatiss talked a lot about Giallo in his documentary. Yikes....sorry Burma!

Arcadia. The scene lasts the whole time.John buys the shot he drinks it he says -he mustn't see-tips in the other shot and walks back to Sherlock they clink glasses and says cheers. Cut to new scene. The colouration lasts the whole time.It must have been complex to set up and time and film in such a way. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar yes.But this very same team hung around waited until it got dark In order to film Sherlock passing the millennium wheel when it was lit up in a rainbow for gay pride parade/week...so on the balance of probability....I think they know. What it means for John is of course subtext interpretation , but likely they are sending out messages of support to those countries that are still lacking in equal rights and that show Sherlock ? Thats kind of cool don't you think? As for Burma....you've lost me sorry? Are they one of those places. IDK.

Arcadia. The whole time John is stood at the bar , ordering tbe shot , and saying he mustn't see-there is no yellow. What colours and in what proportions /top/middle/ bottom do you see? Qns also the bomb flashing ? Several hundred people have twittered and posted images on Google etc Some think the bomb even looks like a heart . This thread is entitled..tell us what you see and thats very interesting because as Arwel Wyn Jones said " if it's on screen it's meant to be looked at in a meaningful way" @According to Mycroft there are no coincidences...only fake personas and lies which indicate planning and intelligence and that..somethings going to happen. I don't think we get Monster drinks in the UK? Never heard.

I noticed in the scene with the train guy that the back wall is wierd - covered in train wheels- which put me in mind of -the wheel turns and there is nothing new under the sun- quote. So in canon Moriartys brother is a train station manager...hmmm..and for such a small part David Fynn is an interesting actor.Could we maybe be seeing a Jim from IT repeat. A random guy watching cctv from trains all day just happens to notice Moran doesn't get off and then contacts Sherlock about it and then forgets the hat he apparently really loves..why would Sherlock even bother going to see something dull about trains in the first place. IDK. @Girlfriend. Was Mycroft right?

Amusing on the domestic note Boton , there's a lot of that in canon and also all those descriptively flowery nature walks , so your probably right. Another subtetxty thing from TGG is when Moriarty says he is going to burn the heart out of Sherlock , the implication is that John is Sherlocks heart. So far so obvious. Yet in TRF and TEH and to an extent in HLV the person /heart thats really getting burnt - is John. Do all the villains really lead back to Moriarty. Hope , Shan , JimfromIT , Irene , Dr whatsit, Jim again , Moran , Magnussen ,John Small ( he didn't want to be clever ) , Mary? . How does Moriarty burn Sherlocks heart - through John.

Perhaps it's just a generational or culteral thing. Probably not many people notice the bar scene in TSOT is lit to be an exact replica of the bisexual flag or that the colours of the Bomb in TEH flash with exactly the same colours or giggle when they think about John seeing a trick cyclist and cycling to work and that the invisible man is named Johnathon Small and that there's a huge penis shaped ornament in the mayfly mans flat. Probably the subtext story doesn't matter for most people and isn't necessary to be entertained because the regular text is enough.

Maybe Marys dull grey coat doesn't make her just that bit dimmer than Sherlock and, maybe Marys flashy red coat with the pink bling on the side doesn't make her just that bit more dangerous than Sherlock and ,maybe wearing that darker blue dressing gown to inappropriate places is just as good as wearing a sheet to Buckingham palace. Maybe if Mary keeps immitating Sherlock John will become just as happy as he used to be. Maybe that IS what John likes, maybe thats why Sherlock immitates Mary and gave up the clever lark and took up the Shooting lark...but I don't think John actually liked that. Maybe thats all coincidental and the creative directors and designers are just lucky at awards.

@Boton I think we actually agree. The addition of Mary shows yes shes there now and then the dream is almost the same but Sherlocks there...he misses the war and he misses Sherlock , Mary@ marriage isn't enough . There isn't anything sexual here imo - but I do think its kind of funny he's sleeping with Mary but dreaming of Sherlock. In the wider subtex and visuals througout 03 though - everything is wrongish -take Baker St -it looks horrible ,awkward camera angles, bad lighting ,familiar music in the wrong key , the missing chair , Janine refers to it as the skuzz? dump and John doesn't know where the tea is. When Marys there , theres not just the horns above her head set up , but the wall is lit a very wrong sickly green behind her.Stag night is cosy but when ...the client turns up she has the chair and Sherlock and John the sofa..not their usual chairs ..like they are the clients ...and then Johns chair vanishes. etc etc They use it very cleverly in loads of places and to show lots of things.Sorry to ramble a bit there -and that was just on 221b - but everything is set up in an observable unspoken way to tell the wrong apart story.Which seems very obvious.....but I also see the Mary@John wrong together clues.I am biased with Mary I admit the - John will like Mary more now he knows she has kilked people and shot Sherlock - is beyond my understanding....May as well talk about why Johns started cycling to work.

Yes I was quite excited to read that. The Moriarty den sounds great and so many things there I didn't know ! . I will definitely go to see this if I hear of tickets as I have read so many Sherlock Holmes things referring to it.

Yes toby thats the way the series three story goes.... Wheres the happy with Mary or perfect Mary -scenes /subtext From what are we supposed to get a subtextual message that Marys dangerous and going to continue assasinating people and taking John with her on her adventures and baby can come too when Sherlocks not around .? That Mary is a bit like Sherlock is there in the Baker St scene and thats the sad ish ending on the surface....but I can't think of any happy to be with Mary subtext. John doesn't want her to come to the drugs den..and on the blog he writes Mary insisted on coming..about the case they all go on. Does he want Mary to be like that , does he want to adventure and solve cases with Mary..I don't think we get that or that we will in 04. edit addition - the bed scene subtext at the start of hlv was used because its simple and was proved true later.Something was wrong with John and Marys marriage - things we dont know and find out later that maybe change this should be reflected in later scenes like -John tells Mary he won't read the memory stick - he won't /doesn't want to stop loving her.etc. but aren't really relevant to the subtext of the nightmare scene .

When Sherlock says John is abnormally attracted to dangerous People.... He means himself as well as Mary no? When Sherlock says because you chose her ....he also means you didn't chose me? When Irene says jealous and look at us both she parallels her feelings for Sherlock to Johns. All these comparisons about John and Sherlocks relationship are romantic ones. Sherlock in a courtroom saying not you to all those women and concluding its always you John Watson. Maybe some subtext there ?

A simple and obvious way they show us John is uncomfortable in his marriage and maybe even the marriage bed. We see John on the bed suicidal and depressed etc in Pink Lieing awake and worried /thoughtful next to Mary after SH return Having nightmares about the war and Sherlock in hlv. look at the colours -set design-lighting etc. Its deliberate its simple its obvious.Its pretty standard stuff in film direction. Why weren't John and Mary shown happily making breakfast or something when the neighbout visited..they wanted to show John bored with his marriage after just a month.

Agree thats what happens on screen but is not what is happening in the subtext.

Have been watching these this week as time off and they are a lot of fun .I had seen a few of them before but don't remember much as it was so long ago. I think the best so far are SH@ Hound of the B..SH@The woman in Green...SH@the spider woman..and SH @ the pearl of death. You can watch them all now free on youtube and the quality is not too bad. The ones where Watson is too much of a buffoon sadden me a little but are still entertaining. The similarities in BBC version and the woman in green with Moriarty are striking , and the guy John thinks is a disguised Sherlock in TEH is almost an exact copy of a scene inSpiderwoman..the spider experts outfit is almost exact and lol@the beard pulling. Also noticed in Woman in Green ..Watson mentions he last used his medical bag when he delivered Amelia Watson! Who is now a grown up pretty thing...Maybe they will pinch the name....but I don't know if this is a reference to Watsons own daughter as I don't remember a reference to it in earlier / other films .Does anyone else? Seen about 11 so far so will keep watching.

It would probably be similar to a modern version of his lucifers box series. ;-)

http://heimishtheidealhusband.tumblr.com/post/120917066523/suddenly-a-wild-gillette-holmes-appeared Interesting review here from a fan who watched it.

Food is used as a euphemism / metaphor for sex in ASIB. Continuing that into S03 is apt and amusing. If you Think about it.