BlackButterfly

I think Janine suspected all along Sherlock was working on Magnussen,and played the game because she hoped Sherlock would bring him down and she could stop getting her face flicked. @Yes Mary @ baby will and must go as the team said at the con - it's not a gang show it's the Sherlock and John show.

Magnussen does say Mary was there to kill him in the cut scene . Mary agrees when SH says it in the 221b confrontation . That she intended murder to keep a secret from her husband is undeniable isn't it?

There's a John in the MP , remember the courtroom scene in TSOT? , cuddly cardie John.

It's all looking doubtful for 2016 as BC starts a long runfof filming Dr strange in may. Starting to wonder if I will live long enough to see series 5!

It isn't odd that Mary remembered the room but the skip code. Why would she take it to SH unless Magnussen had told her to, that seemed a obvious answer after HLV to me? Magnussen sent it as part of his complex plan for SH to watch him dance/chase after John. It wasn't aimed at Mary and at that time Mary ( poppet ) was doing what Magnussen said. Did Magnussen randomly hope ( after arranging Johns kidnapping and placing in the bonfire and filming it all and organising safety stand by guys and a timed lighting of the fire and knowing full well Mary was more than capable of finding John and had already cracked the code and knew the place...that Mary would waste time and run to Sherock? Or did he just tell her take this message to SH and John will be fine and I won't tell? Don't blackmailers also test the blackmailed first...with small amounts..and then move onto the big amounts ..and isn't that why Mary escalated to murdering Magnussen in HLV.

I think SH will solve a historic case...in his mind palace...one that links up with Moriarty@TRF. Remember the hanging dummy that 'didn't commit suicide' ( Henry Fishguard ) , and the bow street runners were totally wrong/idiots.....maybe SH explains how for both.

@the dvd comentary . When talking about Mary shooting Sherlock we have the "I nearly killed you" from Mary and the "..you didn't hit the middle of the coin. No ones perfect." Sherlock reply. Apparently lines almost included and then the comment - Sherlock is very forgiving here. Been pondering this a lot, so very ambiguous again. Mary missed. Ok. Missed what? The killshot ? Or the less harmless shot. ? Mary seems to contradict Sherlocks ' She saved me...' argument, but Sherock continues with it anyway. This ambiguity over absolutely everything is killing all substance to series three and so very very annoying. Will this ambiguity go on forever..seems so..hard to keep faith with this show and not have sympathy for the - Sherlock jumped the shark pov.

TY Carol for exact quote... Grammatically I do think when saying...Both of us..to Sherlock , Mycroft implies himself and another/the other one.

Gatiss in chronicles p302 and Sherlockology seem to be saying a keyword is 'ghosts' but not much context to it. Can only think in Canon of when Holmes said -the world is big enough already Watson.Ghosts need not apply.- in sussex vampyre.paraphrased. Also the ACD quote " the worst ghosts are the ghosts of our old lovers.." Apropriate@Halloween.

Mycroft@the other one thought Sherlock was stupid. Thus Sherlock knows about the other one , the other one is/was as clever as Mycroft...? Right as Mycroft says that Sherlock pulls his...resentful? face. Amusing thought that maybe they both 'looked down' on Sherlock as stupid....explaining the resentful?

@The breakdown of what we know about the other one.. When Sherlock and Mycroft talk about the foolish idea of meeting other children...Mycroft says "We both thought you were stupid Sherlock." Looking back now we know about the other one...is this perhaps a reference to them..and that they were as clever as Mycroft also?

That interview in the radio times..... I find a little worrying...something happening in their lives.....expanding their little family..sounds like an episode about ....the baby......sentimental cliches I really don't find interesting and so not Sherlock..

@T.o.b.y Agreed there are no definite answers , perhaps it is written that way deliberately although having her shoot Sherlock (the hero) with little motive was a literary choice. We really don't know anything about Mary or her past..so IDK and can't judge...however no matter how sympathetic it may be, does the abuse excuse wash? Not with me. Can we call her a serial killer like say Jefferson Hope..you say no....yet it is alleged...both killed for money and/or a so called higher agenda. Freelance assassins or government agents do not choose victims or the agenda. Moriarty chose for Hope..maybe he chose for Mary?

I am really confused over Mary and bewildered by what they have done with the character. I sort of came to the fandom looking for answers..read all the posts here and the linked metas..and am still as confused as ever. It's sort of ruined much of Sherlock for me this season. Going into all the medical blah seems pointless..because I feel there was no way at all to predict the outcome..could anyone but Sherlock have survived a shot like that? The way it was filmed seemed to be a no, it was his will and his mindpalace. Further the shot itself , if that was a deliberate survival shot, and the first shot 'retired' Mary had fired in years without regular practise then eh..impossible...but ok just tv..but then she does it again with the coin. Discounting the impossibles... None of the excuses or explanations Sherlock provides for her stand up to scrutiny at all and if it really is coincidence that John just happened to marry an ex agent freelance assassin nurse..hmmmm. Sherlock has always been confused morally and more grey than anything so ok maybe he can understand and forgive whatever happened with Mary, but then to have strong moral principles John brush it all under the carpet and let it go seems very OOC. Aside from all this , having a serial killer onside and protected even, to some extent by Sherlocks side ,seems to be against canon and the whole grain of the SH storyline turning them into crime solving hypocrites. I don't feel HLV came to a coherent end at all and there are still so many unresolved isuues that I really hope we will not be supposed to just forget about by S04..but I fear we will!

I don't think for a moment the theory SH told Anderson was true. It was a fairly good.... how I faked it theory...but hey it was Sherlocks! No Anderson faked the how I did it jack the ripper scene..and Sherlock got revenge with a fake fall theory. I think the writers never meant to explain TRF and it was just supposed to be one more miracle from Sherlock but the fans obsession with theories got out of hand. Didn't they say something like..'well it's A theory for those that need one..but it's not THE theory'.

@Zain . For the most part I agree with you. Marys storyline was Incredible and at times impossible and John was not just cast as the dummy but mute for most of SO3. There was a lot more style than substance this series and we are not used to that with Sherlock. Saying that though, as mentioned above I did enjoy Sherlock himself this series..there were some great moments with him and Mycroft . I am attempting to keep faith with the writers and hope next series will have enough substance to fill the holes in SO3 along with the style. Not ready to give up on a show I adore yet, S03 I hope , is more transitional than anything and will fit better with the whole after 04 and 05. Maybe it will even become funny and we will look back at this hiatus and laugh! X

I like Janine , she was smart sassy and hot. Her revenge stories were harmless and hilarious. Imagine Molly and Johns and Mycrofts faces reading those . Yasmines a very good actress and she will be back.Maybe she will be a sort of friend for Sh. I don't really buy the conspiracy theories on her..do we even know if Moriarty is or was Irish? Seems doubtful...more likely Magnussen had something on her and she went along with Sherlocks fakery and Magnussens manipulations with the hope Sherlock would prevail.

So many exciting possibilities with "the other one" for them . I really hope they do something , or we at least find out what happened. I would like to see what the MGT take on the long speculated elder brother is.

I think even if it was premeditated murder it was a brave and heroic and selfless thing Sherlock did. Sherlock stepped up to the mark and stopped Magnussen in the only possible way. Thats kind of reassuring in an unpleasant way, but it's a little naive to think the people on the front lines taking on people like Magnussen and Moriarty who seem to be beyond the law and the secret services , will be stopped because there are people prepared to sacrifice themselves and stand up to the bully. It is balanced and contrasted quite neatly with Marys story where a government trained agent has gone rogue is out of control and now considers assasinations as a way to solve problems with their love life.. We are supposed to judge where the balance is and whats acceptable on our behalf and whats not because it's a fine line. Probably one of the most real and relevant things on prime time tv in ages. Also reflects how Sherlock himself needs to find the balance between sentiment and logic - in his work.

Possible , However to be a secret from Sherlock himself , that would mean 35 ish years ago. None of the people in the room would need know about anything that old, and Mycroft would be too young and powerless to make any kind of meaningful judgement upon the outcome. My guess is something more recent , perhaps Sherlock gave a hint in his wedding speech commenting on the church as being only useful as a career opportunity for the idiot family members. Having the third Holmes involved with the church somehow would also make a neat classic ruling trio..religion state and justice ...and would surely justify Mycrofts@Sherlocks scorn as logic scientists. Odd guess I know but I do remember a few canon cases for the vatican..............

I don't think the other one is a secret...when Mycroft mentioned it there were a few people in the room and they all seemed to know who and what he was referring to. The implication was the other one had done something stupid or embarrassing and Mycroft had been quite harsh about it.......and that it was public knowledge. Saying that I do think the other one does seem to be cast out in some way from the family and could connect to Moriarty in some way. Moriarty has been stalking Sherlock for a very long time though , since he killed Carl Powers and Sherlock noticed the shoes were missing, so thats where Moriarty connected with Sherlock.

I agree with BC Sherlock was willing to do anything to win , even shooting Magnussen , thats why he took the gun. That is rather brutal but I think it was necessary. Sherlock shooting Magnussen with serious motives in a sort of controlled manner and as a last resort is also a brutal contrast to Marys I want to keep my lover and so I will shoot Magnussen and anyone who gets in my way. I think it's supposed to be. Mary and Sherlocks similarities are superficial. In reality they are opposites with one thing in common , they both love John - but even that is in contrasting and opposing ways.

SO , I actually think Moriarty is alive, that Sherlock @ Mycroft knew that . When Sherlock shot Magnussen he took a metaphorical fall and so Sherlock could well be expect ing Moriarty to turn up and bail him out of the eastern europe job. Moriarty represents evil and Sherlock good and either both are in the world to fight each other or things are boring. That is the final problem and the fall is the fall of man and that is why Moriarty calls Sherlock the virgin - he means innocent.The real resolution to TRF is the baby.(metaphorically). Thats the theme. Reasons why... Hope said right back in ASIP Moriarty was more than a man. On Johnwatsonsblog Moriarty/anon appears to have left a misspelled message after the iron giant case..stay alive dont fall because Moriarty lives! Marys skipcode not only did she deliver it to SH for Magnussen...she had to choose James or John Sinner or Saint. She thought M was dead and swapped sides. Here be dragons was Mycrofts nod to Sherlocks utility in fighting Moriarty rescuing him if things went badly with Magnussen. Sherlock saying I got you on the roof may of been SH telling Moriarty#1 , he knew he was a fake , maybe he and Mycroft ran the dna from the tea or the apple. Sherlock suspected Mary may connect to Moriarty after she shot him....so fed John the blah to keep her onside and maybe she can be bait/a lead . The MissMe message may actually have been for Mary Morstan.

Yes I agree, Sherlock asking John to bring the gun did seem to me that using it as a last resort was perhaps on the table all along.....considering earlier in the show Sherlock had made a point of telling John not to bring the gun.

Of course Mycroft knew, Sherlock discovered Marys past while hospitalised and drugged up. Why would Mycroft act before the shooting? He doesn't care for Mary or John. Only after the collateral damage message comes home and Sherlock gets shot does he act. How does he act ? First he tells Sherlock -don't get involved and then post shooting he tells Sherlock - slay the dragon and lets him take his laptop as a bargaining tool. Remember Redbeard..only solution put him down..same as Moriarty same as Magnusson. That phone call on reflection seems strangely omniscient..and who turned up to save Sherlock ..Mycroft. As for speculation on agra/a.g.ra...Marys past and the cyrillic.. Sherlock read the memory stick, he was on the Mary/Magnusson case so he needed to know. In canon the agra treasure was a deal made between thieves at agra fort and to do with pearls..and was lost at sea..in the water.. The elephant gate at agra fort kept elephants OUT..hehe like Mary keeps tjlc out...and as for pearls , see Johnwatsonsblog and the unresolved iron giant case and his pearl Emails. Also they cyrillic agra in Magnussons mind palace on Marys file...hmmm the E iotified, the stick, the omega and the numerics, very archaic and only seen in ancient documents. Numerics are numbers interchangable as letters? In an archaic manuscript?...use ag.ra as numbers and see how X marks the spot in the treasure hunt..could be coincidence..but the treasure and Marys past is Waters. Send in the clowns. .