avoca

Funny, if I like a hero, I usually identify with him. I seldom feel represented by the main female character in big movies, and some of my favorite heroes don't even have love interests... Like Sherlock (well, you could count Irene as a love interest, I guess, but it's kinda hard to identify with her, although I do like her a lot). I do feel represented by Molly, though. Very much so. Finally! Yeah, Mr C. is very handsome. ( I always feel like Mrs Elton, referring to him like that. But even I am too lazy to spell out his full last name all the time, and for some reason - must be the formal German in me - I feel oddly rude using first names for celebrities.) I would never have noticed him for his looks alone, though. But that voice... plus his considerable talent as an actor and the compelling characters he's played - definitely a career worth following. I do wonder whether he hasn't been a bit type-cast as Turing, though. I mean, Sherlock, Assange and how another genius with, um, "interesting" social skills. But on the other hand, he's played enough people who don't fit that description at all; he's just not as famous for those roles, I guess. ehm, who's mrs elton..? as for the typecasting, it seems an opinion several journalists share. benedict's answer (I find it very funny): "I have played stupid people as well! if anyone has got any other stupid people I can play, let me know". as for my personal opinion, I don't see typecasting, but I do see directors trying to cast the actor everybody wants. as for benedict's looks, I'm not often attracted to classic beauties, don't know why. benedict isn't a so called classic beauty either, imo. his facial features are not so regular, but the ensemble is pretty impressive. athletic body, amazing eyes, mesmerizing voice, goofy but irresistible smile.. me likes the man

I've seen a lot of people posting that sort of thing, but I don't get it. (Maybe because I'm also annoying and vulgar?) Could you post some examples, please? Okay, this is hard, but I'll try. I'll start with why I find (or rather found) her annoying, and maybe the "vulgar" part will fall into place. To begin with, her looks. When I first saw her in The Sign of Three, I went, ugh, seriously? So far the women in Sherlock have looked like real people, not the standard American soap opera / sitcom / mainstream movie girls with their perfect shiny hair and teeth and makeup and big lips and sexy clothing. And here was Janine, as large as bloody life, looking as if she'd just stepped right off the set of "Sex and the City", flirting with Sherlock Holmes! Then, the flirting itself. The situation is supposed to be funny, I guess, because she treats Sherlock like a normal human (male) being, when we know perfectly well that he is not, and that she displays a profound insensibility towards that "otherness" as their relationship progresses. I mean, who but Janine would even consider becoming Sherlock's girlfriend or giving him a nickname like "Sherl"? (That's vulgar, by the way. Sherl. Come on.). She doesn't reverence Sherlock, I guess. I am sure I should find that wonderful, but I don't. It nettles me when Mary treats him like a child, and I find Janine's behavior downright insulting. This is the Great Sherlock Holmes, for Pete's sake, who does she think she is talking to him as if he were just a guy next door? I do love the way she stomps around the flat in Sherlock's shirt, though. That scene with her and John is hilarious. And I love how she got out of a close encounter with Sherlock Holmes nearly unscathed and made a profit of it. His Last Vow largely reconciled me to her. LOL I actually thought the opposite about janine being skinny.. when john meets her in the morning in baker street, while she wears only sherl's shirt (don't hate me, I like the nickname ), I thought "she's a pretty, sociable, probably popular stereotype of girl, and though obviously good looking, she's not the classic anorexic model you see on TV series. she could be a good looking but "normal" girl. I liked that detail. I think in the beginning, Janine just thought Sherlock was gay. I mean, a man who is not responding to her more-than-obvious signals and who can point out potential male bedfellows for her... To a person like Janine, it takes a lot less to spell "gay". Later, though, I think she's figured out that with Sherlock, the story is more complicated, and by then "the kind of man you are" probably refers to his general Sherlock-ness, his more than problematic approach to feelings, sex and relationships in general, and I think she realizes that before the question of "with whom" came up, Sherlock would have to settle the "what on earth for and how do I do this without getting hurt anyway and no thanks I'm freaked out and this is a waste of time" problem first. always remember I'm kind of newbie here and I apologize if I come up with a topic that's been already talked about here for "days on end" has it been considered sherlock could be if not gay, bisexual..? no polemics here, just a question.

hehe..sex sells sadly. so, the choice of keira is not for turing's benefit (who could care less BTW), but for the male audience's and for the female audience, to identify with the character. besides, benedict looks nothing like alan. so there you go. Yeah, but from what I have seen, they at least made an effort to make him look like Mr Turing, and not on turning his natural good looks to the best advantage. As for identifying with an attractive female character, why should I? They don't represent me... they tried a little, but he still looks his handsome self. the director surely chose benedict cause of his talent but also of his popularity, which is partly due to his looks. of course not all people find him attractive, in fact many don't, but he still considered so by a good number of people, who follow his career, go and see his films, buy the magazines he appears on etc. when it comes to identification with female characters on screen, it's a general process. generally, if a girl likes the hero, she could identify with the hero's girl. but it's obviously not automatic. I don't dislike keira at all, but she's not one of my fave actresses.

my dad used to love them. I never read one. perhaps I should give it a try "sort of virgin".. LMAO I know what you mean, but the expresison makes me giggle. interesting hypothesis. I like both of them: they can actually both be true. I stick to the idea sherlock is a "sort of virgin" cause his whole approach to life applies to love and sex too, of course. sex is a complication to him: he's extremely self controlled (when we meet him first), though he's several rage outbursts, so it'd be interesting to understand why is rage a "licit" emotion and lust or love aren't.. being as emotionally inhibited as he is, sex causes sherlock other problems. when he "plays" janine's boyfriend, he's playing a part, like he does in other circumstances. he's acting. when it comes to irene, I guess he finds her very attractive , but I also think just the fact she's a dominatrix fascinates him. being the control freak that he is, he sees an equal in irene and moreover, he might be attracted to the idea of leaving someone else in control.. my take is they don't end up in bed together, after karachi (might be later on the the series, though), but o.c. it's pure speculation, as always.

hehe..sex sells sadly. so, the choice of keira is not for turing's benefit (who could care less BTW), but for the male audience's and for the female audience, to identify with the character. besides, benedict looks nothing like alan. so there you go. I look VERY forward to see this film: turing's life has always fascinated me very much and it'd be lovely if people would get to know a little more about him and recognize the importance of what he did, thanks to this biopic. better late than never. I adored benedict's words when he said it's a scandal alan has been pardoned, when he should be the only one entitled to forgive those who have been harming him so much.

happy bday, mark, fellow redhead

I agree with those who think benedict meant molly is always hopeful, though there's no real hope for her to get sherlock and that's definitely cruel. I actually like the nickname Sherl. some way he starts to be called with nicknames by "friends" (shezza too), as his attitude shows random signs of "softening" a little, thanks to john's friendship and to the influence john has over him.

can you quote benedict's words about sherlock's and molly's relationship? I'd be very interested in knowing thx

I looove the pics. this and all the latest photo shoot are really good. his new haircut suits him very well: mind you, I can be biased. I find him pretty good looking. the interview is certainly interesting: he does come out a little harsh, though. he kinda lives the "secluded life" (well, not really, but he does try and keep his private life rightly.. private), whilst he's being chased everywhere by paparazzi and screaming fans. must be hard. he's a fully grown man and he knew what he was going against, when he took up the acting career, esp. with his parents being both actors. still, I sometimes feel sorry for him, as for any other public figure in his situation, considered public property just cause they are in fact "public figures". price to pay one can say? not sure it's as simple as that. I have witnessed scenes, I'm sure most people here did, that made me feel embarrassed of being part of the fandom and most of the times they were not involving very young and still a little unexperienced (not meaning it at all as an offense) people. on the contrary. I also think the fact benedict was speaking to a gay magazine set the tone of the conversation. he probably wouldn't have been so brutally honest if speaking to a for ex. Elle UK journalist. or perhaps he was just in one of those days..: “I’ve spent a lot of time getting to where I’ve gotten by observing human behavior, so I’m really sensitive to it anyway,” he says. “And you can’t help but feel that you’re on show, which on good days is fine — you breeze through it, and do whatever you do as a performer and a human being to just feel relaxed and comfortable in your own skin. But we all have days when we’d rather not show our face for whatever reason — because we’re hungover, withdrawn, whatever it may be, physical or emotional. And then it’s really hard. It’s really, really hard, because you just don’t want to engage with it.”

Well, we don't KNOW what happened in his youth or childhood that might have skewed him so much that way. We only see him as an adult like that, more so of course in ASIP than in HLV. Because in HLV he is very much more emotionally involved... in fact, his emotions get the better of him when he escalates to the extreme and shoots Magnussen. indeed. it's all speculations, of course. like much of the ones on forums, about details of a character that are not precisely described or shown in episodes. there do are though, some things we know. the whole east wind thing, the fact big brother mycroft made sherlock's childhood a not particularly pleasant one. the fact sherlock was a very intelligent "borderline autistic" child and that caused him a few problems fitting in the so called "normal society". Please tell us this story, please please? Thanks for this, because that's how I once read John's reactions too; he was just being a bit pugnacious, out of manly pride as much as anything else. This "addicted to danger" stuff hit me out of the blue, and I'm still not sure I buy it. But it would kind of make sense to take John in a darker direction (if anything can be darker than shooting an unarmed man in the head...) -- for dramatic purposes, if nothing else. It could be interesting to see Sherlock be the sane and reasonable one for a change. ehm.. my POV over john's is a little different. I think sherlock works like therapy for john. john's gone through a lot, much more than he could handle, while in afghanistan. he might be craving for excitement and danger, but he was rather shook up when he came back to england. and we saw clearly he's quite inhibited: he's not yet good at processing his feelings. hence the psychosomatic limp. also when sherlock "dies" at the end of series 2, john's reaction is the same: he can't speak with his therapist. I think sherlock, a man that paradoxically doesn't speak "for days on end", has a therapeutic influence on john. through their common adventures, through enthusiasm, true admiration for sherlock's work and affection for his friend, john confronts his demons, processes his sorrow. that's how I see the words "I was so alone..."

I don't know if it fits in this specific thread.. anyway, here it goes: did you read the interview for OUT magazine? thoughts? if it's feel free to move my post to the correct thread

I don't see her shallow either.. I think she's pretty attracted to sherlock because of his looks, but isn't only interested in a one night stand. otherwise, she'd have left for good in the morning, when she meets john in baker street. molly, just to make a comparison, believes in a more ideal, more romantic kind of love. they both like sherlock for his looks too and are attracted to him, but janine is more at ease with her sexuality, perhaps more self confident and "goes for it". nevertheless, she is honest and interested in sherlock; she has just a different approach to him than -again- molly. besides, she's a one episode only character (sort of): I don't think the screenplay writers were so interested in looking into the character.

I do like janine, as I posted in another thread. I think she's smart, tactful, intelligent and very honest. she could be a character to explore in the next episodes. I'm not sure I see her ending up with sherlock and not only for his awful behavior in her regards. I do like molly more, though. and I don't see her ending up with sherlock either, sadly

normally flaunt magazine photo shoot are very sophisticated and beautiful; the interviews are pretty refined. and the magazine's expensive. at least as far as I remember. I haven't bought it for years.

the way I see it, sherlock is a genius, but because of an unconscious mechanism of self defense, he's always avoided carefully all emotions: affection, friendship and such. they didn't interest him, they didn't exist for him, he didn't consider feelings anything worth bothering with. all this until john, who changed his way of seeing things, in many ways, slowly but systematically. I also think sherlock did change john, but that's another story. back on topic, sherlock is like a young child who's been alone for a long time and for the first time, discovers the joys of friendship, the lovely empowering feeling of being special to someone and of enjoying the exclusive affection that person has for you. john is his friend.

I agree with that. he's quite amazing at this role. I can see martin in john, and I don't mean it as a critic. john is a more of an "ordinary" man (again, in a positive way). sherlock is a slightly psychotic individual. it'd have been easy to turn the character into a caricature. whilst benedict does an excellent job with it.

thank you just followed him on twitter and thx carol for the link

looks very good.. will probably be on my Xmas wish list. if I can resist and won't preorder it directly on amazon thx, carol for having pointed me to this thread

I really disagree with your interpretation of Molly as wanting Sherlock as someone he is not. My impression is the very opposite. What I see is a woman who knows Sherlock exactly for who and what he truly is and loves him just like that. One of the most beautiful and powerful moments on the show is, for me, towards the end of The Reichenbach Fall where Sherlock asks her if she would still want to help him if he wasn't "who you think I am, who I think I am", meaning the "great brain" and brilliant detective he has reduced his idea of himself to. And she just repeats "what do you need", because she loves him as a person, as just Sherlock, independent of talent or looks or reputation or what you will. By series 3, I think Molly has accepted the fact that while she loves Sherlock and always will, she doesn't need or want him as a boyfriend - while at times, if she had asked him at the right moment and in the right mood, he might even have agreed to give it a try. She isn't needy at all, she has outgrown her need for him and still loves him for who he is and remains his loyal friend. I know I glorify Molly to bits, but she deserves it, I think. very well said. I agree with you. molly started off in the series as a sort of sherlock fangirl, but soon enough she showed to be totally another kind of person. and I love molly too oh, I didn't know benedict said that. interesting.. I'm pretty curious about the behind the scenes book.. got the case book and it's so good! I wonder if this new one is worth buying.. probably is sorry, who's Arwel?

actually I think so far sherlock's feelings for mary (he certainly cares for her and has shown it risking his life) are a reflection of his very strong feelings for john. john loves mary very much and sherlock loves his friend very much: therefore, sherlock has affection for mary too.

thanks a lot, from the bottom of my heart ^_^

that reminds me of something I have been wondering.. I clearly have been missing something in the episodes.. during the pilot, when john meets sgt. donovan, under a pouring rain, she says to him something like "stay well clear of sherlock holmes: he's awkward, he's fond of homicides. he doesn't even get paid, he comes here for fun, snooping on the crime scene and one day he'll be the one providing the body" (something along these words). I have always assumed sherlock gets paid for his job as a consulting detective for the police. he may earn something working as "private detective" for the cases he takes up through his website of course, but does he earn enough to live of it? or does he come from a rich family..?

I have seen benedict there, rather than sherlock.. but it may be just me

I am really NOT a game person, but I loved The Network. so well made and so entertaining! downloaded the free version for my iphone and shortly after, upgraded it so I could have access to all 10 cases. it did get stuck most of the times I reached a decoder, which was highly annoyingly, as it took a whole day to get back to normal. if it wasn't for that, I'd have finished the game in a day or two probably, cause I got really addicted to it I hope new cases will be added soon.

ehm, sherlock staying with friends..? friends..? before john..? sorry, I couldn't resist