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Okay, if you don't like this thread, don't blame me, I was pushed into starting it by She Who Shall Not Be Named. :p

 

The idea: list all the plot holes in all the Sherlock episodes.

 

Then, try to fill the holes.

 

For example:

 

How did Mary get into CAM's office in HLV without being buzzed up in the elevator by Janine?

Possible solution: through the window, according to Moftiss, but feel free to suggest other, more realistic solutions.

 

It'd be nice to list the plot holes in episode order, but as I am one of those people who rarely notices a plot hole until I've fallen through it, I will have to leave that bit to someone else.

 

Okay, go find plot holes!  First response wins a no prize.

 

 

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Can't tell you about plot holes at this time of night (quarter past 11) but I can say that I do like the thread title.  Totally brilliant.

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Hey, great idea, Arcadia!  :D

 

I will offer my pet-peeve plot hole in hopes that someone else can supply an in-universe answer (because I have no idea):

 

In "The Blind Banker" (of course), the Black Lotus knows that the jade pin has been stolen by either Van Coon or Lukis, meaning that one of those two men is now the only person in the world who knows where it is.  So why in the name of all that is sane do they kill both of them?

 

OK, maybe they actually intended to kidnap and "question" them -- and then kill them -- but their attempts went wrong.  Fine, but why then did they wait till each man was locked into his own apartment, rather than grab them on the street (as they did with John)?

 

Please tell me there's some answer other than "the bad guy has to be terminally stupid, so the good guy can win."

 

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Maybe they didn't so much want that jade pin back as send a message to their other couriers that crime (on the side) doesn't pay? Hence that whole "yellow warning" bit, which they probably counted on being reported in the press, thus sending a message to all their freelancers.

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We don't know that Lukis and Van Coon weren't questioned before they died, do we? Also, the cipher might have been meant to make them own up, and when they failed to do so, perhaps the Black Lotus concluded they either didn't know where the pin had gone beyond the first buyer, or they weren't going to talk.

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Okay, CAMPer and Carol have to share the no-prize, since Camper responded first but Carol responded with a plot hole first! :P 

 

Hey, great idea, Arcadia!  :D

Thanks. It just came to me. ;)

 

Was John grabbed off the street? I thought he and Sarah were taken from 221B by the pizza delivery man?

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Yes they were taken from 221B when John answered the door thinking the take-away was being delivered.

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Okay, to answer the 2nd question ... so nobody would see him kill them? And so the police would think it was suicide?

As to why he killed them ... all I can think is that Van Coon refused to talk, so the baddie offs him (maybe thinking he's got the wrong guy?) And of course Lukis can't tell him where the pin is, because he is the wrong guy ... but the baddie doesn't believe him, and offs him too. Or maybe he just gets off on offing, ha ha ha.

 

Howzat?

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The biggest "plot" hole (and a funny fact!): Phones do seem to run on for all eternity without the need to recharge them.

I don't feel bothered by it, but it's funny to imagine how Sherlock charges it every week, because he's pining after Irene....

Or to imagine how the masked guys offered Irene access to a socket, probably so that she can play Angry Birds and doesn't bother them until her execution.

And the pink lady's phone is quite the exemplary student, too. It is still running, though tracking requires constant communication between the tracker and the phone. I do not know about how common the function is, but mine even says 'no thank you, I'd rather save energy now' and cuts down on any "extracurricular activies" once the last 15 % are hit.

Sure, you can save a lot of time until recharging, but usually, this means disabling functions. Like GPS (cough).

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Maybe they didn't so much want that jade pin back as send a message to their other couriers that crime (on the side) doesn't pay? Hence that whole "yellow warning" bit, which they probably counted on being reported in the press, thus sending a message to all their freelancers.

 

That wallful of graffiti could be construed as a warning to their other couriers, as you say -- except that when Sherlock finally gets it decoded, it tells whoever's got the jade pin to bring it to the Dragon Den.  So those other couriers would presumably say, what jade pin, must not be a message for me.  It was well placed for a warning, though -- apparently at the train entrance to Waterloo Station (closed for the night at the time) -- so that any commuters coming in from the south (on the ride-hand side of the train) would see it (maybe that was their standard message board, so their couriers would routinely ride on that side).

 

We don't know that Lukis and Van Coon weren't questioned before they died, do we? Also, the cipher might have been meant to make them own up, and when they failed to do so, perhaps the Black Lotus concluded they either didn't know where the pin had gone beyond the first buyer, or they weren't going to talk.

 

Well, I'm reasonably certain that Van Coon wasn't questioned, because according to Sherlock, he fired at the intruder, who fired back and killed him -- which presumably tells us why Van Coon wasn't questioned, though not why they chose that particular method of approaching him.  And then as Arcadia said, even if they did question Lukis, he couldn't tell them where the pin was -- so maybe they did torture the poor guy first.

 

Was John grabbed off the street? I thought he and Sarah were taken from 221B by the pizza delivery man?

 

Yes they were taken from 221B when John answered the door thinking the take-away was being delivered.

 

Sarah was taken from 221B, but John was grabbed while standing in the doorway -- having been basically lured out to the street, so that the guy didn't have to break in or enter through a window or whatever.

 

The biggest "plot" hole (and a funny fact!): Phones do seem to run on for all eternity without the need to recharge them.

I don't feel bothered by it, but it's funny to imagine how Sherlock charges it every week, because he's pining after Irene....

Or to imagine how the masked guys offered Irene access to a socket, probably so that she can play Angry Birds and doesn't bother them until her execution.

And the pink lady's phone is quite the exemplary student, too. It is still running, though tracking requires constant communication between the tracker and the phone. I do not know about how common the function is, but mine even says 'no thank you, I'd rather save energy now' and cuts down on any "extracurricular activies" once the last 15 % are hit.

Sure, you can save a lot of time until recharging, but usually, this means disabling functions. Like GPS (cough).

 

I think your best beef is with the Pink Lady's phone -- as you say, the GPS would presumably be slowly using up the remaining charge -- but I have no idea how long a charge would last with tracking being basically the only function in use.

 

I don't recharge my phone often at all -- maybe every few months -- because I rarely even have it turned on.  Maybe the other phones fall under that category?

 

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So a possible answer is that Van Coon fought back and was killed before he could reveal anything, and Lukis never knew anything to begin with, so might as well kill him too? That's just another way of saying "the bad guys were idiots", though! :lol:

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Maybe I've been too hard on them.  If I tried to sneak into China and find something, I might stumble around like a dragon in a lucky cat store myself.

 

By the way, it's always been my impression that those "lucky cat" statues are Japanese, not Chinese.  However, Wikipedia says, "Even though maneki-neko is a Japanese term and maneki-neko are Japanese figurines, they are sometimes incorrectly called the "Chinese lucky cat" and are increasingly popular among Chinese merchants."  So maybe it's not totally incongruous after all.

 

I'm guessing that when they were coming up with ideas for the episode, they walked around Chinatown and actually did see a number of those statues in shops.  Maybe they started to wonder where all the lucky cats came from, and conjectured that there must be a lucky-cat store!

 

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Most interesting theory on the cats.  Very plausible.

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Well, it's not a "lucky cat" store, but we do have a cat store not too far from here. Everything from cat-themed clothing to cat-shaped doorstops, and everything in between. It's awesome.

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Will have to check it out if I'm ever down that way!  I don't generally buy themed items (though I do have a Bill The Cat tee-shirt), but I enjoy seeing what's out there.

 

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By the way, it's always been my impression that those "lucky cat" statues are Japanese, not Chinese.  However, Wikipedia says, "Even though maneki-neko is a Japanese term and maneki-neko are Japanese figurines, they are sometimes incorrectly called the "Chinese lucky cat" and are increasingly popular among Chinese merchants."  So maybe it's not totally incongruous after all.

 

 

Your theory sounds quite good to me. I cannot remember, though, which paw the cats had raised. I believe that a 'japanese' lucky cat has got to have a very specific look. I once did a bit of Japanese studies, and (I hope I am not making this up...) I vaguely remember  that the lucky cat originated from folklore, based on a cat-like spirit/demon.

I never questioned their logic, funnily, because I thought there might be a Chinese version. They tend to share lots of tales, similar to our European folktales, which often have common roots. But your reasoning is sound. They probably are mistaken and took for granted that a Chinese shop would sell Chinese items, and that something that is called 'Chinese lucky cat' originated from China.

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I don't know why I'm surprised (this IS the internet, after all) but there's a whole website devoted to the lucky cat. Different poses and colors mean different things, apparently. Who knew?

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I don't know why I'm surprised (this IS the internet, after all) but there's a whole website devoted to the lucky cat. Different poses and colors mean different things, apparently. Who knew?

 

Yes! That's it.

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I cannot remember, though, which paw the cats had raised. I believe that a 'japanese' lucky cat has got to have a very specific look.

True -- but there are different looks for different meanings. So either paw can be raised, or both. And, as Arcadia's site shows, they can be various colors and/or have various accessories.

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I'll try to put this chronologically, and to be precise about the eyesores of HLV:

  • Sherlock's drug use when he did not know about Magnussen's interest in him (yet). Also, he kept a low profile, which is a contradiction in itself
  • If Lord Smallwood was innocent, and Lady Smallwood complained that nobody was willing to stand up to him (unless she said it in self-irony): Why did they not challenge Magnussen on open ground instead of risking making it worse? Imagine what Magnussen can do with the knowledge about the letters. And now imagine what he could do with an article about how Lord Smallwood was willing to hide the incident at all costs.
  • How did Sherlock know that Janine was working for Magnussen?
  • How did Mary and Janine's friendship fit into this mess?
  • How come the emergency service did not provide the police with the information that there were two different callers? (two different phones!)
  • How come Mary is even able to visit Sherlock in hospital? Since he was shot and Magnussen hinted at a third party who might intend to kill a potential witness: The standard protocol would be to have someone guarding his room, and nobody would be allowed to visit him except close family members (Mycroft, his parents) until he is ready for questioning.
  • If Sherlock climbed out of that window - care to explain how that works as Lestrade and John head upstairs? It is by no means a room on ground level. Yet his wounds do not open from this exertion.
  • How did Mary get a thumbdrive, and if she's one of the 'good guys', why did she not use it to prove her innocence?
  • How come the bodyguards do not find John's weapon?

 

Perfect material for this thread! Okay, I'll try to come up with as many at least sort of logical answers as I can. Let's see:

 

1.) The drugs: We don't know when he stared those. We also don't know when Lady Smallwood paid him her visit and asked him to take the case. So it seems that he could very well have started going to the drug den after he became interested in Magnussen, and that it was, from the start, a ruse to fool the villain into thinking he'd gotten some dirt of Sherlock and therefore behave more audaciously around him, thus showing his hand. Why keep a low profile? So as not to make Magnussen suspicious, I suppose. I am sure Sherlock found some discreet way to have his "secret" leaked to the news without being totally obvious about it.

 

2.) Lord Smallwood wasn't innocent. It's not as simple as that. Just because Magnussen is vile, that does not mean his victims are blameless. What he does is blow up past deeds beyond their original proportions and drag them into the spotlight for the benefit of nobody but himself.

 

3.) Janine: After Sherlock accepted Lady Smallwood's case, he probably researched Magnussen, including his personal staff, and found that surprise, that flirty girl from the wedding was his PA.

 

4.) Mary and Janine: It seems that Mary was having problems with Magnussen before Sherlock was hired to deal with him. Of course she did her research, too. And befriended Janine with a similar intention.

 

Of course it could have occurred to Sherlock that the universe is rarely lazy and that it was quite a coincidence that he should have met the very person he needed at John's wedding. But oh well. Drugs are said to be bad or brain work.

 

5.) Perhaps Mary called from Magnussen's phone?

 

6.) If Mary can get into Magnussen's office with a gun, then she can get in anywhere. How, I have no clue. She just can. She's Miss Super Awesome Assassin Agent.

 

7.) See above basically. He's F***ing Sherlock Holmes. No, honestly, I can't answer that one.

 

8.) I still think she stole the flash drive from Magnussen. And she's certainly not innocent!

 

9.) Because Magnussen didn't bother to make them look. He was so sure of himself, he felt invincible. "They're harmless!" is his motto, and he wants to let them feel his contempt. Too bad, Magnussen. Could've saved yourself a lot of trouble. Although, actually, you should probably be grateful that Sherlock had a gun within reach - he's probably capable of a lot more brutal ways to take a life with no such "civilized" help.

 

 

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Even after watching it 4 times I don't get this (I'm a newbie, don't hate me for asking):

 

did Sherlock like Molly? Or did he say "I need you" & that she was the most important to him because he knew Moriarty wouldn't think of aiming a gun at her? Help me out here? 

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Even after watching it 4 times I don't get this (I'm a newbie, don't hate me for asking):

 

did Sherlock like Molly? Or did he say "I need you" & that she was the most important to him because he knew Moriarty wouldn't think of aiming a gun at her? Help me out here? 

 

I'd like to direct your attention to the What about Sherlock's feelings for Molly? thread.  :)   http://www.sherlockforum.com/forum/topic/1851-what-about-sherlocks-feelings-for-molly/

 

To try and answer your question, everyone has their own opinion on this and only time will tell where they are taking this, if anywhere.

 

ETA:  I decided to elaborate a bit more on this, because well... I love this topic!   When he said "I need you" I'd like to think it was loaded and full of meaning, but I take it at face value.  I think he needed her in that moment, both her assistance and for support as a friend.  Though, I don't consider him saying that a small thing because Sherlock isn't always the best at admitting that he needs other people.  The other bit in the TEH with the whole mattered the most thing, I see a double meaning in it.  First, she was very important in his faking his death, but second... I feel like between TRF and TEH Sherlock has really come to value Molly a great deal, both as a friend and maybe he even entertained the idea of something more.  Now, as you'll see in the thread above, not everyone agrees on what is or isn't there between these two.  Realistically, while I ship it, I don't think anything will ever happen... but I'm holding out hope!  Moffat may have said it will never happen, but so did Chris Carter (X-Files) and he turned out to be a lying liar who lies, so there is always hope... that's the cruel thing.  ;)

 

 

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Even after watching it 4 times I don't get this (I'm a newbie, don't hate me for asking):

 

did Sherlock like Molly? Or did he say "I need you" & that she was the most important to him because he knew Moriarty wouldn't think of aiming a gun at her? Help me out here?

Based on what we've seen so far, I would say that Sherlock "likes" Molly; but he hasn't had any kind of close relationship with her. She is someone he trusts, but that's about as far as it goes. So far! Who knows what will happen in the future! :smile:

 

Yes, she was the most important one, because she could help Sherlock fake his death by finding a body and pretending it was Sherlock's. Sherlock couldn't have asked her to help if he thought she was being watched by Moriarty or his people. He's pretty lucky to have a friend like her, if you ask me!

 

 

ADDED: Ooops! I see Sittything went ahead and gave an answer! Well, now you have two to think about! :D

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I can't help myself (it's the weekend!!!!) -- I have to add my two bits to this...

 

I'll try to put this chronologically, and to be precise about the eyesores of HLV:

  • Sherlock's drug use when he did not know about Magnussen's interest in him (yet). Also, he kept a low profile, which is a contradiction in itself
  • If Lord Smallwood was innocent, and Lady Smallwood complained that nobody was willing to stand up to him (unless she said it in self-irony): Why did they not challenge Magnussen on open ground instead of risking making it worse? Imagine what Magnussen can do with the knowledge about the letters. And now imagine what he could do with an article about how Lord Smallwood was willing to hide the incident at all costs.
  • How did Sherlock know that Janine was working for Magnussen?
  • How did Mary and Janine's friendship fit into this mess?
  • How come the emergency service did not provide the police with the information that there were two different callers? (two different phones!)
  • How come Mary is even able to visit Sherlock in hospital? Since he was shot and Magnussen hinted at a third party who might intend to kill a potential witness: The standard protocol would be to have someone guarding his room, and nobody would be allowed to visit him except close family members (Mycroft, his parents) until he is ready for questioning.
  • If Sherlock climbed out of that window - care to explain how that works as Lestrade and John head upstairs? It is by no means a room on ground level. Yet his wounds do not open from this exertion.
  • How did Mary get a thumbdrive, and if she's one of the 'good guys', why did she not use it to prove her innocence?
  • How come the bodyguards do not find John's weapon?

Perfect material for this thread! Okay, I'll try to come up with as many at least sort of logical answers as I can. Let's see:

 

1.) The drugs: We don't know when he stared those. We also don't know when Lady Smallwood paid him her visit and asked him to take the case. So it seems that he could very well have started going to the drug den after he became interested in Magnussen, and that it was, from the start, a ruse to fool the villain into thinking he'd gotten some dirt of Sherlock and therefore behave more audaciously around him, thus showing his hand. Why keep a low profile? So as not to make Magnussen suspicious, I suppose. I am sure Sherlock found some discreet way to have his "secret" leaked to the news without being totally obvious about it.

If you take Sherlock at his word (!) -- he took the drugs "for a case" -- that is, Lady Smallwood's case against CAM. He was doing it to lull CAM into complacency; "So, clearly he believes I’m a drug addict and no serious threat." Also, he wasn't keeping a low profile, he was trying to get into the news. Remember how happy he was when that finally happened?

 

2.) Lord Smallwood wasn't innocent. It's not as simple as that. Just because Magnussen is vile, that does not mean his victims are blameless. What he does is blow up past deeds beyond their original proportions and drag them into the spotlight for the benefit of nobody but himself.

We were talking about honor in another thread ... some people would rather die than lose their honor. (It was practically a sport in Japan at one time .... :P ) Even if Lord Smallwood WAS innocent, as his wife said he was, maybe he just couldn't bear the thought of his name being dragged through the mud. Actually, at one time I remember thinking CAM probably did release the information, to punish Lady S. for hiring Sherlock instead of knuckling under. Lord S. couldn't take the shame and offed himself.

 

3.) Janine: After Sherlock accepted Lady Smallwood's case, he probably researched Magnussen, including his personal staff, and found that surprise, that flirty girl from the wedding was his PA.

 

4.) Mary and Janine: It seems that Mary was having problems with Magnussen before Sherlock was hired to deal with him. Of course she did her research, too. And befriended Janine with a similar intention.

Yep and yup.

 

5.) Perhaps Mary called from Magnussen's phone?

She did, didn't she? She picks up his phone from the floor, I'm almost certain. So the police would have questioned CAM, and he lied.

 

6.) If Mary can get into Magnussen's office with a gun, then she can get in anywhere. How, I have no clue. She just can. She's Miss Super Awesome Assassin Agent.

Standard protocol or not, as we saw from the deleted scene, there were no guards. So: "Hello, miss, can we help you?" "Yes, I'm here to visit Mr. Holmes." That would be enough in any hospital I've been in.

 

7.) See above basically. He's F***ing Sherlock Holmes. No, honestly, I can't answer that one.

He did reopen his wounds. That's why he collapsed at Baker Street. It just took awhile.

 

8.) I still think she stole the flash drive from Magnussen. And she's certainly not innocent!

Yep. She said the contents of the drive would incriminate her, so she's guilty of something. What I don't understand is why she kept the stupid thing.

 

9.) Because Magnussen didn't bother to make them look. He was so sure of himself, he felt invincible. "They're harmless!" is his motto, and he wants to let them feel his contempt. Too bad, Magnussen. Could've saved yourself a lot of trouble. Although, actually, you should probably be grateful that Sherlock had a gun within reach - he's probably capable of a lot more brutal ways to take a life with no such "civilized" help.

That has to be the explanation, of course, but it's just --- dumb. Oh well, whatever. On a side note, I read somewhere that Benedict did want to use a more brutal, um, "gun-free" method. Thank goodness they didn't listen to him. Although it would've gotten around the plot hole!
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