Metacommunication

[Arcadia]

Taking this here because I like the question, but didn't want to hijack the BC news thread:

Ooops, too bad I didn't visit here first, I left a remark on the subject in the other thread. I'll repeat it here:

 

 

I'm pretty sure that being polite is still called "polite" ....

 

I think I get what you're saying, but I don't think being "PC" works the way you say it does. I think it works this way: you just need to have a minimum amount of human empathy and some common sense. :D

 

I agree some people take it too far; and I suspect that's what most people object to. Fortunately, we are free to ignore them. Correctly, of course!

... and taking it too far is what's called "politically correct."

 

Ba-boom! :D

 

I maintain that's not what it means, but here's the Oxford definition:

Political correctness: The avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

 

So they acknowledge that some people think it goes too far, but overall, it's defined as an attempt to be a more inclusive society. That's the part that makes me not get why people are against it.

 

... it seems a small thing to give up a word in order to avoid offense. Still, I might be talking out of both sides of my mouth here; I still regret that the word "gay" has lost it's older meaning.

I think I get what you all are saying, I just guess I have a different definition of "PC" in my head than most of you. Probably planted there by my left of far left sister. She used to work with the underprivileged, minority, handicapped, etc. segments of the population, so she had to be a bit more circumspect in her language than she might have been otherwise. And of course, being the big sister, she didn't hesitate to "correct" my language!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I can certainly understand your sister needing to be extra-careful with language in her profession.  But does she actually use "politically correct" as a positive term?  To the best of my recollection, it didn't even start out that way -- the term itself was a reaction to perceived over-fastidiousness.

 

Of course, one person's "just being polite" would be another person's "politically correct" and possibly even a third person's "horribly insensitive," because we each live in our own personal world.  But in my understanding, the term "politically correct" itself is at least mildly pejorative.

 

[Arcadia]

See, my memory is different, I thought the phrase had, if not a positive connotation, at least a neutral one, in the beginning, and simply meant an effort to find less offensive phrases for certain groups; such as calling adult women "women" instead of "girls" or dropping the terms "crippled" or "retarded" in favor of "handicapped." Then at some point some people began complaining about "not being allowed" to use "banned" words, and I've always thought that's where the negative connotation of "political correctness" crept in. But I'll concede that view may be at least partly due to my "liberal bias". :p

 

There's probably another term now for the original concept. Cultural sensitivity? Or is that negative now too? Language evolves.

[T.o.b.y]

There's probably another term now for the original concept. Cultural sensitivity? Or is that negative now too? Language evolves.

 

:lol: You mean there's now a politically correct term for being politically correct?

 

[Arcadia]

Exactly! :d

[Carol the Dabbler]

See, my memory is different, I thought the phrase had, if not a positive connotation, at least a neutral one, in the beginning, and simply meant an effort to find less offensive phrases for certain groups; such as calling adult women "women" instead of "girls" or dropping the terms "crippled" or "retarded" in favor of "handicapped." Then at some point some people began complaining about "not being allowed" to use "banned" words, and I've always thought that's where the negative connotation of "political correctness" crept in. But I'll concede that view may be at least partly due to my "liberal bias". :P

 

You do realize that "handicapped" is now at least two or three layers down in the euphemism pile?  Near as I recall, it was followed by "disabled," which was in turn supplanted by "differently abled," with "special" also being somewhere in the heap.

 

The thing is, if people (or even just some people) think it's in any way undesirable to be [whatever], then the word for it gradually develops a pejorative flavor, so eventually somebody comes up with a euphemism.  But as soon as the euphemism become fully accepted as the standard term, it starts to become tainted in turn.  I'm pretty sure that's true even if nobody is actually prejudiced against individuals who are [whatever], but simply would not care to be in their shoes.

 

As for "politically correct," you may be right about its history.  I may simply have first heard it a little later in its evolution.  Nowadays, though, it does seem to have a negative connotation in many (possibly most) circles -- except, of course, for "politically correct" circles!

 

[Inge l-w]

This has been fun! We use PC English in international conferences and seminars to tease the other participants! A very tall Australian colleague sat just in front of me, once, so I would have to lean sideways like the Tower of Pisa to get anything from the interactive board! Purely by chance, she is also named Carol, so I went : Carol, could you move a seat left or right or, better still, sit at the back, so that the vertically challenged of us might get a peek at the board?

Needless to say, she immediately moved, although she said as a Parthian shot: You are not vertically challenged, I'm glandularly challenged! After that, it took the moderator about two minutes to restore order!

Another extremely funny example was when a Spanish lecturer from Murcia ( Don Quixote territory!) said that he had studied Hispanic literature and a US participant asked him which authors ( of whom she named a few) he had liked best! After a short breakdown in communication, I was able to clarify that the gentleman had studied Spanish literature, not what the "Norteamericano" thought of as Hispanic!

I'm very much afraid that outside the US, PC is strictly for the birds!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Sorry, not in luxury of time to do neat quoting.

 

Regarding PC definition:

Actually I always thought PC is not limited to language, but also the 'right' way to behave in certain situations.

 

Like for example, instead of criticizing, Sherlock should say thank you for the present.

Or in meeting etc, regardless how much the other party is being idiotic, it's not good to say so.

Or white lies instead of frankness when rejecting an invitation.

 

Are they all simply manners?

Or to a certain degree, could be categorized as PC?

 

Regarding the other meaning of gay.

Yes! I know the one that is used now first. One time, I stumbled upon Nat King Cole's song lyric young and gay, or old and grey..., it confused me a bit but I do realized there should be another meaning to that based on the usage in the sentence.

[Arcadia]

I think it's what Carol said. Being PC was supposed to be good manners, but it's acquired a negative connotation, so now being PC is not good manners. Except when it really is. Or something.
 

[Van Buren Supernova]

My head hurts.

All these talks really confirm that I am PC-challenged.

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

 

Being PC was supposed to be good manners, but it's acquired a negative connotation, so now being PC is not good manners. Except when it really is. Or something.

 

Come to think of it, "polite" and "manners" and "etiquette" have all had negative (or at least frivolous) connotations at times too, though I get the feeling they've recovered a bit in recent years.

 

I distinctly remember when "etiquette" in particular was disparagingly defined as "knowing which fork to use," and that may well have been the fault of the experts of that era, Amy Vanderbilt and Emily Post, whose books actually did spend an awful lot of time explaining stuff like how to properly address a foreign ambassador and how to word a formal wedding invitation and, yes, which fork to use.  Maybe the current recuperation of the term is thanks to more sensible proponents like Miss Manners (who even has a sense of humor, bless her heart).

 

I personally place "which term is correct this week" right up there with "which fork to use."  I think it's far more important to be pleasant and empathetic, and if I use a dated word, hopefully people will assume that I'm old-fashioned but I mean well.

 

[Inge l-w]

Good manners will always matter! PC may become a passing fad! Knowing which utensil to use is of vital importance when you are under the laser-beam of the German ambassador's wife's gaze, just waiting for you to spoon your soup towards you instead of the other side of the soup-plate to rate you as a plebeian, peasant, commoner. The other time we had lots of fun was when an English colleague from Lincoln, bald as an egg, was told to wear a hat during the conference at Bremerhaven ( particularly nasty wet cold) because he was follicularly-challenged. I confess I said that, but, in my defense, it broke the ice, we got on spectacularly well and managed to do the job we had been looking forward to.

[Shadow Dweller]

Old but good, many points still applicable in today's society.

www.bartleby.com/95/29.html

articles.latimes.com/2004/aug/14/entertainment/et-daunt14/2

emilypost.com/advice/the-principles-of-etiquette/



Etiquette vs Manner:

www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-etiquette-and-vs-manners/

wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-etiquette-and-manners.htm

dailykos.com/story/2013/03/19/1195235/-Etiquette-vs-Manners

Edited November 9, 2015 by Carol the Dabbler
Created links

[Arcadia]

My head hurts.

All these talks really confirm that I am PC-challenged.

Aren't we all! :d

 

Good manners will always matter! PC may become a passing fad! Knowing which utensil to use is of vital importance when you are under the laser-beam of the German ambassador's wife's gaze, just waiting for you to spoon your soup towards you instead of the other side of the soup-plate to rate you as a plebeian, peasant, commoner.

Although if she had had any manners she wouldn't be judging you in the first place! :p

[Carol the Dabbler]

emilypost.com/advice/the-principles-of-etiquette/

 

dailykos.com/story/2013/03/19/1195235/-Etiquette-vs-Manners

 

I particularly like those two articles out of the six you listed, SD.  They each make a point that had never really sunk in with me before -- manners are universal, whereas etiquette is cultural.

[Van Buren Supernova]

 

 

I personally place "which term is correct this week" right up there with "which fork to use."  I think it's far more important to be pleasant and empathetic, and if I use a dated word, hopefully people will assume that I'm old-fashioned but I mean well.

 

 

This. Agree wholeheartedly.

 

Usually I always have ways to get out from being stuck very formal situations.

Problem is I don't think I am either pleasant or empathetic enough. Fortunately, I make people laugh when I don't know what to do, intentionally or not, and some kind-hearted friends always come to my rescue if I got too awkward and about to blow up.

 

Haven't had time to read all those articles.