The 'Other Detectives' Lounge

[Hikari]

Is anyone familiar with the Charles Lenox series of Victorian detective mysteries by Charles Finch?  (Note the same name between writer and hero.)  These covers and titles look very intriguing.  Charles, an Oxford undergraduate at the start of the series apparently becomes something of an aristocratic consulting detective in the 1850s.

I have read three in Anne Perry's series of her 'amnesiac detective' William Monk, set in roughly the same period, but while the first one was fascinating, I am not planning to continue.  I find Ms. Perry's prose off-putting. Just wondering if anyone else has heard of these by Finch.  The latest book, a prequel was just released last month, titled The Woman in the Water.  I may well start with that one.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Nope, I'm not familiar with any of the above.  I'm just sitting here marveling over the coincidence that there are *two* fictitious detectives names Monk -- whereas I've never personally known anyone by that name, and have heard of only one (namely Thelonious).

I do know a Holmes, a Watson, and even someone whose surname is Sherlock.  But no Monks whatsoever.

[Hikari]

I'm halfway through The Woman in the Water by Charles Finch, the prequel to his long-running Charles Lenox mystery series.

Though the author does not come right out and say it in so many words, the fact that his hero is an homage to Sherlock Holmes is readily apparent.  I hadn't read any of this series before, so I figured the prequel was a good place to start, despite the fact that there have been something like 10 books in the series already.  I am enjoying myself so far . . more than I expected to, actually.  I feared that Mr. Finch's style might be as ponderous and dry as I say I regret to find Anne Perry's, who has set two very successful series in the same middle Victorian period, but I am delighted to be wrong.

London, spring 1850:  Recent university graduate Charles Lenox (Balliol College, Oxford), the second son of a baronet with an estate in Sussex, has just celebrated his 23rd birthday, a milestone which makes a young man take stock of his life so far, especially now that he is no longer a student but out into the wider gentleman's world of society proper.  Charles is a bit glum at his progress.  On the plus side, he is enjoying an unprecedented level of freedom (which he does not abuse with bad habits such as gambling, drinking to excess or pursuing unsuitable love affairs . . at least, hardly ever, he assures his mother, Lady Lenox) as the head of his own bachelor establishment.   This establishment consists of himself,  his valet, Graham, a cook, a couple of other household servants and the scourge of his existence, his relentlessly efficient and meticulously proper housekeeper, Mrs. Huggins, an energetic, widowed Scots lady of middle years, who came to Charles directly from a large aristocratic household, and never misses an opportunity to inform Charles as to how his establishment is inferior to that of Lady Hamilton's every chance she gets.  Charles's elder brother will inherit their father's lands, and title, but Charles receives enough of a personal income to maintain the lifestyle of a London gentleman.  Charles does embody the typical languid London young gentleman in one respect:  He is very unhappily in love with his dear childhood friend, Lady Elizabeth . . who just happens to be the newlywed bride of someone else because Charles dithered and lost his chance.  Brooding on this state of affairs makes him miserable in that transcendent Romantic sort of way.  It's just as well that he has set himself a distraction--a most ungentlemanly pursuit it is, too.

Charles is engaged upon a bold, heady and fundamentally terrifying enterprise:  he wishes to become a private detective.  A consulting detective, actually.  In aid of this, he is reading voraciously in criminal literature and compiling an exhaustive archive of articles relating to crime in London, collected from half a dozen daily London newspapers.  His valet, Graham, assists in this compilation, along with providing another set of legs when the partnership finally begins to attract cases.  In between providing stalwart and invaluable support in these endeavors, Graham attends to Charles's attire, silver, social diary, and brings in trays of sandwiches, tea or something stronger as required.  Although he is technically a servant and has been in Charles's employ since he came up to Oxford, the two are peers in age, having grown up together on the Lenox estate, and the best of friends, though it does not do to refer to one's valet as such in the rigid social hierarchy of Victoria's England.  Being the Watson to Lenox's Sherlock comes naturally to Graham--albeit, Charles often wonders if Graham isn't actually the smarter one . . .and our story is taking place quite a while before either Sherlock Holmes or John Watson are gleams in their daddies' eyes via those of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.  Young Mr. Lenox is a contemporary of their fathers, but avid Sherlockians will recognize a proto-Holmes when they see one.

The nascent consulting detective brings himself to the attention of Scotland Yard when the bodies of first one, then another, young women, are found near the Thames, one discovered nude, crammed into a travelling trunk and set adrift; the other found on the beach, festooned with flowers like Ophelia, apparently strangled with her own hair.  Both murders are followed in short order by taunting letters to the editor in a scandalous tabloid paper (The Challenger by name.)  Commissioner of Police Sir Richard Mayne is at first tempted to dismiss the aristocratic dilettante self-appointed detective as a time-waster, but it turns out that the young amateur comes up with some very solid leads and will not be gotten rid of so easily.  Charles has an unsettling fear in the pit of his stomach that they are encountering a new and terrifying breed of murderer--one who kills anonymously and for the pleasure of murder's own sake, and not for the normal motives.

So far this is an engaging prequel . . I plan to read the rest of the series, if the 'older' Charles is as winning as his younger self.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Sounds a bit like a Victorian Lord Peter Wimsey (i.e., I might enjoy it).

[Hikari]

1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Sounds a bit like a Victorian Lord Peter Wimsey (i.e., I might enjoy it).

That was my first thought, too . .a Victorian Lord Peter Wimsey, crossed with features of SH.  Unlike Sherlock, who comes from 'landed squires' and is as such, a gentleman by default, but who has never been 'in society' as such, nor wanted to be, Charles is firmly in the society set on account of his father, a Member of the House of Lords, even if he'd prefer to be out.  When Sir Richard retains him as the official unofficial consulting detective of the Yard, salary: a half-pound per week . . Charles is in agonies of embarrassment.  A gentleman would sooner 'pay' 10 times that amount to be able to say that he's not on anybody's payroll. 

I suppose the creator of the 'Inspector Lynley Mysteries', Elizabeth George (a Californian!) had Lord Peter Wimsey in mind when she created Tommy Lynley, Eighth Earl of Asherton . .and Detective Inspector with the Metropolitan Police.  And her fellow American Mr. Finch here may have had Tommy Lynley in mind when he devised Charles Lenox.  I'm not very familiar with Lord Peter's milieu, having only read one Christmas story featuring him, but both Tommy Lynley and Charles Lenox deal in much darker crimes than the country house party drawing room murder.  Finch's series isn't quite as dark as Alex Grecian's The Yard, and the star detective is a lot more posh, but already there have been two sadosexual murders that wouldn't be out of place on Ripper Street.  I have a feeling that Charles's well-manicured hands may get a lot dirtier.  Sounds like a bit of a cosy premise, but it's not turning out to be cosy  . . . I'm glad of it.  I might not like Charles if he were any more genteel. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Lord Peter's cases vary, but I don't think any of them were quite that R-rated.  (They were, after all, written by a gentlewoman and a scholar.)  I seem to recall one body found on a beach, but it's been a while. Oh, that reminds me -- check to see if either Amazon has the second LPW series on DVD. (I've got it on videotape, for all the good that does me now.)

Lord Peter is closer in social standing to Charles Lenox, being the second son of an Earl, with no particular responsibilities other than being proper and all that. He doesn't relish his cases the way Sherlock Holmes does, though -- he's a somewhat reluctant detective, especially when it comes to murder.

[Hikari]

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 5:50 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Lord Peter's cases vary, but I don't think any of them were quite that R-rated.  (They were, after all, written by a gentlewoman and a scholar.)  I seem to recall one body found on a beach, but it's been a while. Oh, that reminds me -- check to see if either Amazon has the second LPW series on DVD. (I've got it on videotape, for all the good that does me now.)

Lord Peter is closer in social standing to Charles Lenox, being the second son of an Earl, with no particular responsibilities other than being proper and all that. He doesn't relish his cases the way Sherlock Holmes does, though -- he's a somewhat reluctant detective, especially when it comes to murder.

Finished The Woman in the Water.  Very good.  I'll be moving onto the series proper, and hope I like the older Charles as much as I like his 23-year-old self. 

Charles is somewhat on the opposite pole from Lord Peter in that he doesn't particularly relish the tedium of society life as an aristocrat, but he has discovered that nothing he has experienced in his life so far gets his blood thrumming like solving murders.  He is enough of a gentleman, however, that the notion of being *paid* for his services is absolutely horrifying.  Quel bourgeouis!

[Hikari]

Over the weekend I finished the Charles Lenox book The September Society (#2 in the series).  I skipped over the first one in favor of this installment due to the setting of Oxford.  Charles is a graduate of Balliol College and returns to the city of dreaming spires at the behest of a client--a well-born lady whose son, a third year student, has mysteriously disappeared from his college after an unnaturally tense meeting with his mother.  The young man's roommate is also missing.

A good read for fans of Inspector Morse & Lewis--Oxford, the oldest university in England, has been an institution since the 11th century, so though a century and a half separates our time from the time of the novel, to venerable Oxford, that's a drop in the bucket.  The Cherwell and Isis rivers (the Thames is called the Isis by Oxonians) flow on.  Sharp-eyed readers will find many similarities in this story to plot points in The Sign of Four.

[Sheerluck]

A few of my favourite detectives have already been mentioned, especially Jonathan Creek. I would add:

Touch of Frost with David Jason. Both the television series and books are excellent.

As a fan of G.K. Chesteron of course I must mention Father Brown. The written stories are better than either television series, but those are good too.

When I want to spend time in France I read Maigret books by Georges Simenon. The recent adaptations starring Rowan Atkinson are enjoyable fare.

And while not strictly detective fiction Rumpole of the Bailey is brilliant. Rumpole himself is an avowed fan of Sherlock Holmes. John Mortimer's writing is wonderfully evocative and witty. The series starting Leo McKern is a must watch, IMO.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Thanks for the reminder, Sheerluck -- I watched the entire Rumpole series on television -- and also have it on DVDs that I have never gotten around to watching, partly because there are no subtitles (and dear old McKern talked like he had a mouthful of mashed potatoes).  Doubt that my hearing is going to improve with age, so better watch it, the sooner the better!

[Sheerluck]

16 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Thanks for the reminder, Sheerluck -- I watched the entire Rumpole series on television -- and also have it on DVDs that I have never gotten around to watching, partly because there are no subtitles (and dear old McKern talked like he had a mouthful of mashed potatoes).  Doubt that my hearing is going to improve with age, so better watch it, the sooner the better!

I would suggest tracking down all the books as well. When I'm looking for something to lift my spirits I read these or James Herriot.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, I bought most of the books (and very much enjoyed them) after another forum member told me that the television episodes are pretty much word-for-word from them.  So I figure I can use the books as "subtitles" in a pinch.

We seem to acquire DVDs faster than we have time to watch them at the moment, due to some temporary but rather urgent demands on my time.  Hopefully we'll be able to catch up one of these years!

[Sheerluck]

I blame things like work for eating away at so much of our precious time. I would be so much more productive if I didn't have to spend so much of it earning a living.

[HerlockSholmes]

On 20/03/2018 at 1:14 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Nope, I'm not familiar with any of the above.  I'm just sitting here marveling over the coincidence that there are *two* fictitious detectives names Monk -- whereas I've never personally known anyone by that name, and have heard of only one (namely Thelonious).

I do know a Holmes, a Watson, and even someone whose surname is Sherlock.  But no Monks whatsoever.

What about a Herlock 👍

[HerlockSholmes]

21 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Thanks for the reminder, Sheerluck -- I watched the entire Rumpole series on television -- and also have it on DVDs that I have never gotten around to watching, partly because there are no subtitles (and dear old McKern talked like he had a mouthful of mashed potatoes).  Doubt that my hearing is going to improve with age, so better watch it, the sooner the better!

I could understand him perfectly😃😃

[Sarios]

Hello, I was wondering what people's opinion would be of C. Auguste Dupin and the stories that Edgar Allen Poe wrote about him. We already know Sherlock's opinion of the character, but what about everyone else here? I've personally only read one book in the three that Edgar Allen Poe wrote for him, The Murders in the Rue Morgue, and that was years ago in my mid to late teens I believe.

[T.o.b.y]

Hello and welcome! 

I like Dupin. I think he was most certainly the model for Holmes. 

[Sarios]

Thank you for the welcome, and I believe he was. If I remember correctly, Sir Conan Doyle took inspiration from Dupin for Holmes, technically making Dupin an ancestor to Holmes. Why has no one worked that into something? Connecting the two detectives through bloodline.

[Sheerluck]

I can't recall the precise reference but I believe Holmes once admitted that he had some French ancestors/relations. This could be viewed as Doyle recognizing Poe and Dupin.

[Sarios]

Oh, I need to look more into it then. I do believe he did say something close to that. And honestly, I would love the two to be connected that way, it's better than that book I heard about where it turns out Sherlock's cousin is Dracula.

[Arcadia]

I thought the French Connection was Vernet the artist? As well as a popular movie.

[Sheerluck]

47 minutes ago, Sarios said:

Oh, I need to look more into it then. I do believe he did say something close to that. And honestly, I would love the two to be connected that way, it's better than that book I heard about where it turns out Sherlock's cousin is Dracula.

In fairness, I could be remembering something from the Wold Newton family.

[Sarios]

Just looked up the Wold Newton family thing, now that is interesting to think about.

[Sheerluck]

As an offshoot of the Great Game, it does provide an interesting look at many of our favourite fictional characters.

[Sarios]

I have been wanting to write a story about Dupin though, wishing to see how people would take to my own interpretation of the character. People have done that with Sherlock Holmes for years, each one being different than the other unless they are in a series.