Subtext Interpretation... What Do You See?

[T.o.b.y]

I cannot write such vivid descriptions myself, because it'd feel like an invasion of privacy (whether Sherlock's & John's or Cumberbatch's & Freeman's, I'm not entirely certain).  It sounds silly, but I'd be embarrassed!

 

Yes, and this leads straight to another subject that could fill a thread of its own: The actors are actually different people than the characters they play... that little bit of information does not seem to have reached every person who owns a TV set.

 

I do not understand why anybody would want to be famous. Imagine knowing that millions of hormone-charged girls are fantasizing about your every freckle. I suppose you develop some kind of professional distance to that sort of thing, tell yourself it's not really you they're thinking about, just some image you lent your body to, but still.

[aely]

 

 

The actors are actually different people than the characters they play...

 

Amen!

 

This is probably my #1 bugbear with certain aspects of fandom. It was ridiculously apparent in Torchwood fandom: some people were so disappointed that Gareth David Lloyd was absolutely nothing like Ianto Jones and they seemed to feel that they owned him, making his life just a tad difficult at times.

 

I have to admit I am probably part of the freckle counting brigade, but that's because I have a thing about freckles...

 

Another thing I really don't like in fic terms is Real Person fic/Real Person slash. THAT feel like a major invasion of privacy to me - it's one thing making the characters do things (sometimes to each other) that they wouldn't do on screen but it's something else entirely to write a fantasy about the actors doing the same sort of things.

[T.o.b.y]

People do that? I really am learning a lot... Of course there's no limit to what one lets loose inside one's brain, but why actually write it all out and publish it? Says the person who is spending her evening spilling out her thoughts into this forum, so I'd better shut up right now.

[Caya]

That reminds me of a discussion in a recent private message.  The other person can quote her part if she likes, but I said that even though I enjoy reading fan fiction where Sherlock, John, et al., are described evocatively, I cannot write such vivid descriptions myself, because it'd feel like an invasion of privacy (whether Sherlock's & John's or Cumberbatch's & Freeman's, I'm not entirely certain).  It sounds silly, but I'd be embarrassed!

 

I remember that discussion . I stated that I happily wrote fairly explicit HP fan fiction while those stories were still books, and then the films came out and suddenly those figures in my head were played by live, actual people and I found myself quite unable to continue. Not because I was writing Real Person fics (dear me, no) but because the bodies portraying those characters suddenly belonged to real humans ... sure didn't help either that Hermione's actor was a kid; well, of course she was, but it's still different from taking a figure from a book and stating that now she's eighteen.

 

Mind you, just like Carol I continued reading these stories, I just couldn't write them anymore, and I do know that this was overreacting. Then again, in Fox's and my current project I find I have no difficulty whatsoever sending Kirk (who's very much Pine's Kirk, not some general unspecific Kirk concept) off to bed with females of various species, but then again, this is Kirk. For that character, everything else would be badly ooc  .

 

Still won't ever do an explicit Sherlock story, I think. Those would be very much specifically Cumberbatch's and Freeman's Sherlock and John, not Doyle's, and it'd feel like a step too far for me to put those characters in a sexual situation. They do share bodies with real people.

[T.o.b.y]

... because the bodies portraying those characters suddenly belonged to real humans ... sure didn't help either that Hermione's actor was a kid; well, of course she was, but it's still different from taking a figure from a book and stating that now she's eighteen.

 

Mind you, just like Carol I continued reading these stories, I just couldn't write them anymore, and I do know that this was overreacting.

 

I really cannot see that as overreacting! Or if it is, I am extremely overreactive... Fiction is the most enjoyable when you believe in it as much as possible and that includes becoming protective and / or respectful when it comes to characters you've come to love, while at the same time being free to play around with them in your head.

[Carol the Dabbler]

People do that? I really am learning a lot... Of course there's no limit to what one lets loose inside one's brain, but why actually write it all out and publish it? Says the person who is spending her evening spilling out her thoughts into this forum, so I'd better shut up right now.

 

You'd be amazed at what's on the internet -- like something out of True Confessions magazine or the Penthouse letters column, about how the writer supposedly had a very explicit affair (or maybe just a one-night stand) with such-and-such a well-known person.  Rest assured, they're nothing whatsoever like what you've been posting!

 

Though I will admit (obviously) to having read some of the stuff, my reaction is basically the same as yours -- hey, I have daydreams too, but why the heck would I ever post them on the internet?!?!  Creepy!

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

...Though I will admit (obviously) to having read some of the stuff, my reaction is basically the same as yours -- hey, I have daydreams too, but why the heck would I ever post them on the internet?!?!...

 

 

So people like us can read them, shake our heads and feel superior?

 

Thank you for assuring me that I have not yet reached a certain level of self-exposure...

[SH/LotR/Zelda Fan]

I know this is from a couple of pages ago, but...

 

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...or here's a new one....Chekov/Khan....but there you are.

Whaaat people are shipping Chekov and Khan? Now that is one thing I do not understand. Maybe it's just my miniscule imagination, but why would you ship Chekov and Khan? It's probably just my tiny imagination actually...

[T.o.b.y]

I'm getting the impression that it is possible to "ship" (that word is just as bad as "bromance", actually) anybody and anything. Two attractive beings (and attractive is in the eyes of the beholder, so any two beings, actually) that appear in the same movie is probably close enough for whoever finds the idea appealing.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Not even necessarily from the same movie, considering the popularity of crossovers.

 

[T.o.b.y]

Why don't people just make up their own characters from scratch, seeing how far away they seem to go from their source? Let me recommend this method and point out that it has added benefits like free choice of looks and age, no "official" writers annoying you with their own decisions plus no problems with copyright.

[T.o.b.y]

Getting back to the people we were originally discussing: What do you see here?

 

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

A: two men in nice coats

 

B: a blatant attempt at hyping an already over-hyped series on the part of the BBC

 

C: an insinuation that the "romance" part of "bromance" has been hereto underestimated afterall

 

or D: none of the above

[Carol the Dabbler]

*whimper* 

 

 

 

Added:  Though I must say that I do like John's new coat.

 

[aely]

 

 

Why don't people just make up their own characters from scratch, seeing how far away they seem to go from their source?

 

For me as a crossover writer, I like to see if I can make things believable. Sherlock and the Dresden Files isn't something that should work, but it does in my brain and going by the feedback I've received so far I've managed to make it believable for others. I have an enormous tendency to think "what if" about things, and then see if I can make them work in my own head at least. To a degree it is easier to use characters people already know as you can take short cuts on certain things (physical description for one).

 

One writer I know said she really only used the characters as a physical template so everyone knew what her characters looked like without having to create them from scratch.

 

Others, like myself, seem to enjoy stretching the realms of possibility. I do read (and have written) explicit Sherlock fic but I have to admit I only really enjoy fics where the characters are acting in-character, even if it's an AU where Sherlock isn't a consulting detective (this is possible, honest). I hate character assassination whether it be by fanfic writers or canon writers.   

[T.o.b.y]

I hate character assassination whether it be by fanfic writers or canon writers.   

 

 

Amen, Aely! And I think the above mentioned pic is an example of the latter... Sherlock would be appalled.

 

[Caya]

Dunno, I took it as a play on the Nighthawks picture:

 

 

and thus interpreted it as how lonely those two are without each other.

[T.o.b.y]

Thank you for adding some art to this discussion. I love that painting. The pic from the BBC website is just too, well, smoldering for me. As opposed to the Hopper, which is a perfect example of how to create atmosphere without being corny or melodramatic.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  I don't know it's "smoldering". For me it's more whistful?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think it depends on interpretation.  I see the BBC picture as showing John feeling pensive and unhappy -- sad? angry? both? -- and Sherlock feeling irritated -- something's not going the way he wants.  I assume it's a frame from one of the Series 3 episodes, and am really looking forward to seeing how it fits into the story.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I can agree with that.

 

[T.o.b.y]

I think it depends on interpretation.  I see the BBC picture as showing John feeling pensive and unhappy -- sad? angry? both? -- and Sherlock feeling irritated -- something's not going the way he wants.  I assume it's a frame from one of the Series 3 episodes, and am really looking forward to seeing how it fits into the story.

 

Oh, I'm sure when seen in context it will be totally different. Taking a single shot out of a scene can really change the impression of the viewer. I'm glad you all like it! It's certainly nice to see anything new.

 

My reaction, if examined closely, probably can be summed up as follows: "Here I've been taking such pains to collect and spread evidence that you two are not in love and you go pining for each other in full view of the public - thanks a lot, guys!" I just think it looks very lover-like and that the people who chose this to promote the show knew perfectly well how many women and girls out there (and maybe men, too, come to think of it) are dreaming up (non-b)romances about them. It's like explicitly declaring the series an invitation to do that. Which it is, I am sure - why else would the lead be quite so handsome and Byronic? But there is just so much more to it than that and I feel it could be done more justice to than this.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I think, as in all that goes on in people's heads about these two, it depends on whether or not they are using their shipper goggles. I don't see it that way at all, but then I do see them as anam cara and not as a romantic couple, even in this frame shot.

[T.o.b.y]

Voice of reason! Thank you. Well, if nobody sees this but me then I should probably do some thinking about my own "goggles". Hmmm, or I could just go cry in front of The Reichenbach Fall... I think I like that option a lot better. 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Naawww don't agonize about it to much. People can, will and are free to interpret it any way they want.