Accents

[Carol the Dabbler]

While watching an episode of The Dresden Files (a really cool show, by the way -- thanks for turning me on to it, aely!), it occurred to me that the American actors I've seen playing English characters all seem to be from the southern United States. John Hillerman (Jonathan Higgins on Magnum, P.I.) is from Texas, Daniel Davis (the holographic Moriarty on ST: The Next Generation) is from Arkansas, and Terrence Mann (Bob the ghost on The Dresden Files) is from Kentucky by way of Florida.

 

Note that I said English, not British. I've read that when settlers from the British Isles came to North America, those from the south tended to go to the south, and those from the north tended to go to the north. Then as subsequent generations moved westward, they tended to continue that trend, rather than veering northward or southward. This migration pattern affects North American regional accents to this day, with southern accents being somewhat more "English" and northern ones being more "Irish" or "Scottish."

 

I had always assumed that when an actor puts on a foreign accent, he's more or less starting from scratch, so it wouldn't matter where he's actually from. But three out of three was starting to look like a pattern. Then I wondered about actors who do Irish or Scottish accents. The only one I could come up with this late at night is James Doohan, but he's a good example -- he played a number of Irish and Scottish characters (including "Scotty" on the original Star Trek), and he was from British Columbia.

 

More examples -- or counter- examples -- anyone?

 

Oh, in case you're wondering about my own Hoosier accent, I'd never really thought about it in those terms, but I was astounded when I heard that Andrew Scott had played Moriarty with his own Dublin accent -- compared to the rest of the Sherlock cast, it doesn't sound to me like he really has much of an accent!

[aely]

I'm glad you enjoyed the Dresden Files.

 

Andrew Scott's accent isn't that strong - I know some people from Dublin whose accents you can cut with a knife. There can be quite significant variations in city accents sometimes. In Liverpool there is a variation between north and south but it's only really noticeable to people familiar with the accent anyway, either other Scousers or those who have lived there for a while with their ears open.

 

I'd never noticed that about American actors playing English characters. Interesting. I'm hoping someone will come up with more examples or counter-examples (I'm hopeless, so nothing from me on that score).

[Undead Medic]

Actors who can lose their accents at will:

• David Tennant
• Ewan McGregor
• James Marsters

Actors who are adept at putting on accents convincingly:

• Hugh Laurie
• Maggie Smith
• James Doohan
• Paul McGillion (Carson Beckett in Stargate Atlantis)
• James Marsters
• David Suchet (As Poirot)
• Robbie Coltrane (As Hagrid in Harry Potter)

There is a story doing the rounds that when Hugh Laurie auditioned for the role of House, he turned up in character, at first some of the production team had absolutely no idea he was actually British. I don't know the authenticity of this tale, but if it's true then it's testament to his voice talents!

[aely]

I'd add Paul Blackthorne to that list - I had no idea he was English when I first saw the Dresden Files!

[SherLOCKED221]

A random fact I learnt from many talks with an Australian:

In the middle of Australia there are many flies etc., therefore those that immigrated there found that flies would (you guessed it!) fly into their mouths. To cope with this they began to talk with their lips very close together, almost no opening them at all! Thereby creating an accent of necessity. I guess this may be the same in the South of American etc.

 

Oh and that is interesting about the immigration of English settlers in the US! I never knew that...

 

I watched a interview with Hugh Laurie he said that when in America he talked to a fan who said

"Hey, you really managed to lose your accent for House." and he replied,

"I didn't lose my accent...I put one on!"

I guess it just shows how unintelligent some people can be!

[Carol the Dabbler]

In the middle of Australia there are many flies ... To cope with this they began to talk with their lips very close together, almost no opening them at all! Thereby creating an accent of necessity....

 

Interesting! Wouldn't it be cool to know what other accents started out in similar ways?

 

Accents can also start out as a fad. For example, one theory as to why Castilians pronounce an "s" like a "th" is that many years ago there was a prince who had a lisp. Either people didn't want to embarrass him by talking without a lisp, or else they thought it was cool to sound like his royal highness.

 

 

... Hugh Laurie he said that when in America he talked to a fan who said

"Hey, you really managed to lose your accent for House." and he replied,

"I didn't lose my accent...I put one on!"

Somebody (wish I could recall who) once quipped that most Americans think if you woke an Englishman up suddenly in the middle of the night, he'd talk just like anybody else!

 

We don't literally think that, of course. But we may subconsciously react to an English accent as though it were an affectation -- simply because when an American talks like that (or spells "color" with a "u"), it's because they're putting on airs.

[aely]

Oh, another one for the 'losing accents' thing.

 

David Morissey (Jackson Lake in 'The Next Doctor' - the 2008 Doctor Who Christmas special)

 

He's done all sorts of different British accents, but his natural one is a Scouse accent, which kind of surprised me when I first heard it as I hadn't realised he had one. I could tell he was from Liverpool as there are certain tells of speech, usually in vowel sounds, that you don't get with other accents even if they speak without much of an accent as a whole. Obviously there are exceptions where I haven't noticed, but in general I'm pretty good at spotting fellow Scousers (Paul McGann, the 8th Doctor, is another).

 

Here's David Morissey with his non-Scouse accent (and David Tennant with both his normal Scottish accent and his English accent).

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvza0HuDfuU

 

With accent

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABVrARBi2EY

 

and here he is way back in 1983 with a bunch of other Scousers (David played Billy and was 18 at the time)

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aV7aibue44

 

And here's David Morrisey doing another accent, with David Tennant being Scottish. Bonus Tango...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlgALLxgR4g

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I could tell he was from Liverpool as there are certain tells of speech, usually in vowel sounds, that you don't get with other accents even if they speak without much of an accent as a whole.

Even though The Dresden Files is set in Chicago, it was filmed in Toronto, so most of the characters are played by Canadians doing a generic North-American accent. They can sometimes be spotted, though, when their dialog includes words like "out" or "house," because of the distinctive Canadian "ou" diphthong (sort of halfway between "ou" and "oo").

 

 

I'd add Paul Blackthorne to that list - I had no idea he was English when I first saw the Dresden Files!

I didn't either -- even though I'm an American, he had me completely fooled till we watched the DVD extras. They said that it was funny on set -- Blackthorne (Harry Dresden) and Mann ("Bob") would be chatting away as themselves between takes, then they'd go into character and swap accents!

 

How does Mann's accent as "Bob" sound to you folks on the other side of the pond? (Ditto the other Americans mentioned in my first post -- Daniel Davis and John Hillerman?)

 

 

... Andrew Scott's accent isn't that strong - I know some people from Dublin whose accents you can cut with a knife....

Scott is an interesting case, in that it isn't just his accent that doesn't sound particularly foreign to me, it's also his pronunciation. It's been a while, but the last time we watched some interviews with him, I was half-listening for pronunciation that sounded British-Isles to me, and didn't spot any. Not only that, but I believe that he pronounced "process" as "prah-cess" rather than "proh-cess" (as did another Dubliner that I've heard recently).

 

Seriously, I believe that that the American midwestern accent derives at least in part from Ireland (just as that Canadian "ou" comes from Scotland). Of course I'm not talking about a "down-home" midwestern accent (which can also be cut with a knife!), but rather the more generic type -- more or less the way I talk when I'm on my best behavior.

[aely]

I think Terrence does a great English accent as Bob.

 

The way of pronouncing process is a 'Southern' Irish thing I think - I know quite a few people from Dublin and other parts of Eire who pronounce it that way and some people from Belfast and other towns in Northern Ireland who don't.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I thought his English accent sounded very realistic -- it's nice to know that it also passes muster over there!

 

Thanks for the "southern Irish" clarification. I shall amend my theories accordingly. As you may know, "prah-cess" is the standard pronunciation in the U.S. I'm trying to think of regional North American accents that use "proh-cess." Canadians definitely say it that way. I'm thinking there may be areas of the US as well, but can't come up with any offhand.

[SherLOCKED221]

I don't know if this comes into play regarding the Midwestern accent origin, however, I do happen to know most of the slums in New York were occupied by the Irish during the civil war times.

[Carol the Dabbler]

You've just put your finger on the big problem with my Irish => Midwestern theory. I believe you're right about most of the Irish immigrants settling in the northeast, where their descendants seem to have stayed. There aren't many Irish surnames around here. Maybe our accent is a random mix that just happened to come out sort of Irish? Is there any other part of the British Isles where people say "prah-cess"?

[EvigMidnat]

the House thing sounds like something that happened to Stephen Moyer from True Blood, he filmed a chat show in the US where after coming on talking as Bill, Stephen reverted to his flat British and the host kept telling him to drop the accent cos they didn't need proof of how well he could act, he kept insisting his was British and it pissed the host off so much his threatened to walk off till Stephens US agent walked on and flashed the host with Stephens passport or some sort of ID.

[Carol the Dabbler]

When Americans put on a British accent, they're either acting or else being pretentious, so I can kind of understand how the host felt (since he obviously thought Moyer was an American). His reaction does seem awfully extreme, though!

[chironsgirl]

As a Canadian I think I am more accepting of English Scottish or Irish accents. We have so much immigration going on that most of us now are from somewhere else. We have a lot of Jamaican, Asian and Indian immigrants as well. Having a mix of accents around me feels normal. I myself still carry my Nova Scotian accent, even though I left there 38 years ago. I've lived in Ottawa, Victoria and Toronto and still people know where I'm from originally. For the life of me I can't change the way I sound. I have no clue how people are able to shift accents so drastically.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm originally from Indiana, but lived in other parts of the US for many years before returning. Although my accent attenuated somewhat during my sojourns, I never actually picked up the local accents. I suspect that my accent was a subconscious link to home, and also a part of my identity.

 

Putting on an accent is a little different, probably because that's an intentional thing. I can fake a few accents well enough to be identifiable -- though I'd certainly never fool anyone. (My Canadian "ou" diphthong isn't half bad!) Like you, I am utterly amazed by how incredibly real some actors can sound.

 

However, I find it jarring when an actor almost succeeds in putting on an accent. For example, I watched a movie where one actor was doing an accent very nicely -- about 99.9% of the time. Then every so often he'd slip, and I was jerked painfully back to the real world. My fervent opinion is that he'd have been much better off merely suggesting the accent -- or even skipping it altogether, since it was not at all important to the story.

[Carol the Dabbler]

We visited my husband's nephew tonight, and he offered to show us whatever we wanted from his extensive collection of Doctor Who episodes. There's been a discussion of Sylvester McCoy on another thread, and even though I recently saw him in The Hobbit, I had never seen him as The Doctor, so of course I asked for one of his, and we watched "The Curse of Fenric." I noticed that McCoy pronounced the first syllable of "either" as "ee" -- but then he pronounced "process" as "proh-cess." According to IMDb, he was born in Scotland, but raised primarily in Dublin. Whatever all of that means.

[SherLOCKED221]

I've never been very apt at knowing accents. Although I can fake a few pretty convincingly, I cannot identify any accent beyond, 'Oh he must be from the South of America" etc. Regional accents are just plain confusing to me!

[besleybean]

Oh, accents I'm pretty hot on recognising, maybe not so good at mimicking.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I cannot identify any accent beyond, 'Oh he must be from the South of America" etc. Regional accents are just plain confusing to me!

That's actually not too bad, SherLOCKED, since you're not from the US.

 

I can generally tell an English accent from a Scottish or Irish one, but for some reason I have no concept of a Welsh accent at all. Actually, though, I may not be doing so badly there, since I think the British Isles cover roughly the same land area as Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio -- I can easily tell the difference between northern and southern accents within these three states, but I'm from here. As for some other English-speaking countries, though, I'm doing well to distinguish between an Australian accent and a New Zealand accent, never mind trying to say what region they're from!

[SherLOCKED221]

I can understand a lot of those accents no one seems to, but I do have difficulty differencing and pin pointing any accent even the Australian accent and a New Zealand accent except for the fact those that live/d in the middle of Australia have a thicker accent (sometimes).

[Carol the Dabbler]

My husband and I are having a disagreement over Mrs. Hudson's accent (specifically in the graveyard scene). Would some of you British folks please tell me what it sounds like to you? Thanks!

[aely]

She doesn't sound like she's got any particularly strong accent to me, but then I do have dodgy ears. Una Stubbs comes from Leicestershire so she could well have a non-Brummie midlands accent underpinning everything.

 

 

Even though Lestrade I think is supposed to have an Estuary accent, RG's West Country vowels occasionally slip out (listen to the way he says pager in The Great Game, that er is so typical) so I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same for Una Stubbs and Mrs Hudson.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Even though Lestrade I think is supposed to have an Estuary accent, RG's West Country vowels occasionally slip out (listen to the way he says pager in The Great Game, that er is so typical)

This line?

 

Told her to phone you. She had to read out from this pager.

I don't seem to have that in my mental recording of the episode, so can't play it back at the moment. Will try to remember to listen for it next time we watch TGG.

 

 

She doesn't sound like she's got any particularly strong accent to me, but then I do have dodgy ears. Una Stubbs comes from Leicestershire so she could well have a non-Brummie midlands accent underpinning everything.

Had to look up Brummie -- means relating to Birmingham, and Birmingham is not in Leicestershire, so OK. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the Leicestershire accent sounds like. [it sounds like Una Stubbs, dummy!] What mainly caught my ear in the graveyard scene was the way Mrs. Hudson said "food" ("Imagine, keeping bodies where there's food!"). It actually sounded sort of Scottish to me -- but then my knowledge of British accents is pretty skimpy, so I'm probably lumping too many things together.

[aely]

The way she says 'food' doesn't sound at all Scottish to me - it would be more like 'fud' in Scottish - but she is sort of croaky in that scene so her accent isn't as easy to hear as usual.

 

There's one person with a Leicester accent you can hear quite a lot of on youtube, a guy called Gary Lineker, who used to play football for Everton (the 'other' team in Liverpool) amongst others and now is a presenter. Here's a 5 minute interview.