The Ice Man and The Virgin

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Another idea popped out last night. Sherlock Holmes, in his current formative years, has not yet acquired the wisdom of ACD's version. Moriarty's nickname for him, 'the virgin', is not about his sexual prowess but rather about lack of experience and general attitude about cloak and dagger business.

 

That is very plausible.  I like that.  And it can relate to Mycroft being the iceman in how he deals with the cloak and dagger business.

[sfmpco]

No, I do think it's referring to his sexual experience (or lack of).  Even Irene Adler senses it which is why she asks very pointedly "Have you ever had anyone?"  She already knows the answer.

[Shadow Dweller]

No, I do think it's referring to his sexual experience (or lack of).  Even Irene Adler senses it which is why she asks very pointedly "Have you ever had anyone?"  She already knows the answer.

 

Think about who said that. ;) Irene Adler, what she did for a living? Makes sense if she thinks along that way because that's how her world is, seduction and power play in the bedroom.

 

Supposed that it is true and the meaning of Moriarty's statement is just like Irene Adler's interpretation, what it makes of Mycroft? The iceman, cold and unresponsive to honey trap? (Sounds like a fanfic-fodder *grins*) That's not unexpected reaction from M.I.6's agents, let alone this one, so what make Jim Moriarty choose that particular nickname?

 

Which 00 Mycroft's designation is, I wonder ^^ 

[sfmpco]

 

No, I do think it's referring to his sexual experience (or lack of).  Even Irene Adler senses it which is why she asks very pointedly "Have you ever had anyone?"  She already knows the answer.

 

Think about who said that. ;) Irene Adler, what she did for a living? Makes sense if she thinks along that way because that's how her world is, seduction and power play in the bedroom.

 

Supposed that it is true and the meaning of Moriarty's statement is just like Irene Adler's interpretation, what it makes of Mycroft? The iceman, cold and unresponsive to honey trap? (Sounds like a fanfic-fodder *grins*) That's not unexpected reaction from M.I.6's agents, let alone this one, so what make Jim Moriarty choose that particular nickname?

 

Which 00 Mycroft's designation is, I wonder ^^ 

 

 

Mycroft is whichever 00 means lazy.

[Shadow Dweller]

 

 

Mycroft is whichever 00 means lazy.

 

Now, that's something I hope to see in the future, is there any substance behind those armchair bureaucrat act of his  :D

[sfmpco]

 

 

 

Mycroft is whichever 00 means lazy.

 

Now, that's something I hope to see in the future, is there any substance behind those armchair bureaucrat act of his  :D

 

 

That would be completely out of canon character.  

[Shadow Dweller]

 

 

 

 

Mycroft is whichever 00 means lazy.

 

Now, that's something I hope to see in the future, is there any substance behind those armchair bureaucrat act of his  :D

 

 

That would be completely out of canon character.  

 

 

Canon Mycroft did not go around intimidating people nor being snarky to Sherlock :p

[sfmpco]

 

 

 

 

 

Mycroft is whichever 00 means lazy.

 

Now, that's something I hope to see in the future, is there any substance behind those armchair bureaucrat act of his  :D

 

 

That would be completely out of canon character.  

 

 

Canon Mycroft did not go around intimidating people nor being snarky to Sherlock :P

 

 

Mycroft isn't snarky.  Sherlock and John are the snark masters.

[Shadow Dweller]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mycroft is whichever 00 means lazy.

 

Now, that's something I hope to see in the future, is there any substance behind those armchair bureaucrat act of his  :D

 

 

That would be completely out of canon character.  

 

 

Canon Mycroft did not go around intimidating people nor being snarky to Sherlock :P

 

 

Mycroft isn't snarky.  Sherlock and John are the snark masters.

 

 

Sarcastic then. 

 

Needs more revelation about the brolly-carrier, how he thinks and other aspects of this particular character. Blame Messrs. Moffat and Gatiss for giving life to otherwise a minor character :p 

[sfmpco]

Gatiss has said we will see more of Mycroft in S4.  

[Shadow Dweller]

Gatiss has said we will see more of Mycroft in S4.  

 

:brit: 

[sfmpco]

Let's hope he doesn't mean SEE more of him... as in NO BEDSHEET scene with Mycroft!  I don't need to see Mycroft in anything other than a perfectly tailored suit.

[Shadow Dweller]

Let's hope he doesn't mean SEE more of him... as in NO BEDSHEET scene with Mycroft!  I don't need to see Mycroft in anything other than a perfectly tailored suit.

 

^^; Agreed, being a besuited comedy-relief at times is enough.....

[Arcadia]

 

 

 

 

Mycroft is whichever 00 means lazy.

 

Now, that's something I hope to see in the future, is there any substance behind those armchair bureaucrat act of his  :D

 

 

That would be completely out of canon character.

 

 

Canon Mycroft did not go around intimidating people nor being snarky to Sherlock :P

 

 

Mycroft isn't snarky.  Sherlock and John are the snark masters.

 

Mycroft is the master of snide, imo. And a master manipulator, better than Sherlock. Sherlock telegraphs it, with Mycroft you don't know you've been had until a month later.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

 

Which 00 Mycroft's designation is, I wonder ^^ 

 

 

Mycroft is whichever 00 means lazy.

 

 

If Mycroft were 00, it would be the equivalent of M or M's boss in the Bond films.  Never get oneself dirty but has a hand in several areas.

 

[sfmpco]

I do get the feeling that Mycroft is outside of MI6, however.  Because he says in HLV "MI6.  THEY want to place you back into Eastern Europe." (emphasis mine).  If he were involved, he would have said "we want to place you back into EE."  But apparently Mi6 does go to Mycroft with the idea before approaching SH directly - especially if it's probably going to get SH killed.

[Arcadia]

My feeling is that Sherlock would tell them to stuff it if they approached him directly. Their only hope is that Mycroft might persuade him to help.

 

OR ... hmmmm, now I'm wondering. DID MI6 go to Mycroft? Or did he just hear about it another way, and warn Sherlock off? Because if MI6 knew the mission was fatal, why would they have alerted Mycroft? Surely they must know he wouldn't willingly put Sherlock in a lethal situation. (Or would he? )

 

(And if MI6 knew the mission was fatal, what or who in that organization wants to get rid of Sherlock?)

[Carol the Dabbler]

Maybe they didn't exactly want to get rid of Sherlock -- just didn't want to risk any of their own people on that mission, and knew that he's as capable of doing the job.

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I do get the feeling that Mycroft is outside of MI6, however.  Because he says in HLV "MI6.  THEY want to place you back into Eastern Europe." (emphasis mine).  If he were involved, he would have said "we want to place you back into EE."  But apparently Mi6 does go to Mycroft with the idea before approaching SH directly - especially if it's probably going to get SH killed.

 

 

My feeling is that Sherlock would tell them to stuff it if they approached him directly. Their only hope is that Mycroft might persuade him to help.

 

OR ... hmmmm, now I'm wondering. DID MI6 go to Mycroft? Or did he just hear about it another way, and warn Sherlock off? Because if MI6 knew the mission was fatal, why would they have alerted Mycroft? Surely they must know he wouldn't willingly put Sherlock in a lethal situation. (Or would he? )

 

(And if MI6 knew the mission was fatal, what or who in that organization wants to get rid of Sherlock?)

 

 

Maybe they didn't exactly want to get rid of Sherlock -- just didn't want to risk any of their own people on that mission, and knew that he's as capable of doing the job.

 

Interesting theories and I agree Mycroft does seem outside MI6.  Maybe his role is such that he can kind of oversee MI6 without actually being part of them.  Such as Sherlock's comment about not starting a war because of what it will do to traffic.

[Shadow Dweller]

I do get the feeling that Mycroft is outside of MI6, however.  Because he says in HLV "MI6.  THEY want to place you back into Eastern Europe." (emphasis mine).  If he were involved, he would have said "we want to place you back into EE."  But apparently Mi6 does go to Mycroft with the idea before approaching SH directly - especially if it's probably going to get SH killed.

My thought exactly. Mycroft maybe registered in the goverment's official payroll as being part of M.I.6 but the scope of his actual formal influence is beyond that.

 

My feeling is that Sherlock would tell them to stuff it if they approached him directly. Their only hope is that Mycroft might persuade him to help.

 

OR ... hmmmm, now I'm wondering. DID MI6 go to Mycroft? Or did he just hear about it another way, and warn Sherlock off? Because if MI6 knew the mission was fatal, why would they have alerted Mycroft? Surely they must know he wouldn't willingly put Sherlock in a lethal situation. (Or would he? )

 

(And if MI6 knew the mission was fatal, what or who in that organization wants to get rid of Sherlock?)

 

Maybe they didn't exactly want to get rid of Sherlock -- just didn't want to risk any of their own people on that mission, and knew that he's as capable of doing the job.

 

Hope to persuade Sherlock to accept the assignment or is it a way to test Mycroft about his allegiance, Queen and the Country's best interest or your brother? Crude but effective method. Should Mycroft blatantly choose Sherlock then his political enemies will use it as proof to undermine his authority & credibility in the future, painting it as a liability. He would find his influence stripped bit by bit and later find himself boxed into the corner, perhaps to be shipped to a post where he can be useful but still far away from the central of power.

 

I think he is way too much like unassailable fortress and thus must be gotten rid of. It would be much easier 'to manage' several people who are not as dedicated to the Crown who will be placed to fill the void he left.

 

Given Sherlock's obvious talents in his chosen field as Consulting Detective, he's a national asset, albeit more on the loose cannon side. No, the choice here ought to be mostly not from the capabilities' side of the equation. Plans can be altered but human resource takes far longer to develop than logistics. Losing a precious resource like Sherlock does not make sense if they can send other dispensable 'freelance operatives'. Sherlock already gained public attention as Detective With Funny Hat who came back from death's door, he is not a good choice to send as an undercover agent (and lets not forget who and what his brother is).  If I am in charge of a secret service agency and see Sherlock Holmes entered my domain, I will treat it at least a yellow alert situation. Of course there's a possibility he's there as a ruse to divert our attention from the actual hostile agents but still, sending brother of a person known as highly placed in the government as a bait? Stupid decision that could cost someone's political career and I will try to take advantage of it as any self-respecting strategist cum tactician would.

[sfmpco]

It is totally reasonable to assume that Sherlock was MI6 during the time he was dismantling Moriarty's network.  Otherwise I don't think that would have shown up on CAM's mind palace scan of him.  Also, Mycroft's statement of "They want to place you back..." indicates that he was working MI6 before AND in Eastern Europe...i.e., Moriarty.

[Shadow Dweller]

It is totally reasonable to assume that Sherlock was MI6 during the time he was dismantling Moriarty's network.  Otherwise I don't think that would have shown up on CAM's mind palace scan of him.  Also, Mycroft's statement of "They want to place you back..." indicates that he was working MI6 before AND in Eastern Europe...i.e., Moriarty.

 

An operative who almost died in a Serbian torture chamber if not because of big brother came to the rescue.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think he is way too much like unassailable fortress and thus must be gotten rid of. It would be much easier 'to manage' several people who are not as dedicated to the Crown who will be placed to fill the void he left.

Assuming that you're referring to Mycroft, who would be doing the "managing"? If he reports to a superior, then they might indeed feel the need to get rid of him eventually. But if he is -- as he appears to be -- something of a law unto himself, then getting rid of him would require either a royal command or a coup d'Mycroft.

[sfmpco]

One day Mycroft will retire, and he'll retire sooner than Sherlock probably although there are some old geezers at Diogenes.  Mycroft isn't as icy as people think, however, and he definitely is better with social graces.  Just don't invite him to a party.  He won't show.  He is comfortable with his peerage at work, but he prefers a solitary life away from work.

 

 

[Shadow Dweller]

 

I think he is way too much like unassailable fortress and thus must be gotten rid of. It would be much easier 'to manage' several people who are not as dedicated to the Crown who will be placed to fill the void he left.

Assuming that you're referring to Mycroft, who would be doing the "managing"? If he reports to a superior, then they might indeed feel the need to get rid of him eventually. But if he is -- as he appears to be -- something of a law unto himself, then getting rid of him would require either a royal command or a coup d'Mycroft.

 

 

Management does not limit itself to top down and through the formal line of command, it could as well be horizontal or even bottom up by informal means (example: you are in advisory position, you managed your leader and fellow council members without having a actual mandate for it). What I have in mind actually is an attempt to 'balance the playing field' by Mycroft's peers. He's much too powerful for their taste and that would not do. 

 

We do not know yet about the extent of his authority but insofar the third season, he has more than the Queen herself to answer to (almost end of HLV, the scene where he and a few more was discussing about Sherlock's recent fiasco).

 

 

One day Mycroft will retire, and he'll retire sooner than Sherlock probably although there are some old geezers at Diogenes.  Mycroft isn't as icy as people think, however, and he definitely is better with social graces.  Just don't invite him to a party.  He won't show.  He is comfortable with his peerage at work, but he prefers a solitary life away from work.

 

He will show up, just make it a party that counts and I mean a genteel event with clear objectives besides just to have fun together. ;)