Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Slithytove]

Oh, for a wonderful moment, I thought Moriarty could be "the other one", the evil brother and maths genius turning up to taunt his brother at the pool after being in hiding for years..... Then I remembered that they had already met when he was "Jim from IT"' so that wouldn't work. Damn.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Unless Sherlock doesn't know about him. An older sibling that was disgraced early on. Even Mycroft wouldn't mention his name, as you said Slithylove, "the other one". Maybe that's why it's so personal for Jim to bring Sherlock down. The favored one, the baby of the family? Just ideas, of course, no real substance. But there are Holmesian scholars who have wondered if Moriarty was a Holmes siblings. So you are not alone in that theory. And way was Jim chained and in a straight jacket in the dying Sherlock's mind palace? And why is he the last person Sherlock seeks out? And Sherlock asks him something like "How did you stand the pain?" or something along those lines.

 

  Mycroft had Jim tortured, but Sherlock had under gone torture at the hands of the Serbs, so that doesn't quite cover it.

[T.o.b.y]

And way was Jim chained and in a straight jacket in the dying Sherlock's mind palace? And why is he the last person Sherlock seeks out?

Well I have always interpreted Moriarty as a part of Sherlock himself. Not really a figment of his imagination, but sort of. Moriarty represents who Sherlock could have easily become if he hadn't chosen "the side of the angels". Of course that option is not entirely dead. Sherlock just has it well under control, chained and imprisoned. He needs it once in a while, I guess. Or it simply can't be killed. Which is why it does make sense in a way that Moriarty is alive for real, too (even though I still don't like that bit).

 

[Ally.C]

I have never for a moment believed that Sherlock is a sociopath. And, honestly, I don't think he believes it either. In my opinion Sherlock uses his qualification as a ‘high-functioning sociopath’ as a shield. Previous to HLV he only ever mentioned being a sociopath in defense when being a pyschopath.

 

Now, for a bit of background, I do believe the term sociopath is outdated and now falls into the ‘pyschopath’ spectrum. I could be wrong, I’m not a mental health expert. My mother was, but it wasn’t something we chatted about often.

 

Now, as for that shield. We need to look at social definitions of sociopathy and pyschopathy to understand this. Sherlock, for all we have seen this series, is so very human. Even Gatiss has said, “Murder is very human,” or something to that tune. Sherlock is scared to let people in, to let them have the power to hurt them. “Caring is not an advantage.” “Alone is what I have. Alone protects me.” That heartbreaking Redbeard scene. In a lot of ways Sherlock is still that scared child that Mycroft sees him as.

 

And what human person would want to be called a pyschopath when the social definition of a psychopath is a crazy, a nutter, someone who’s mind is not right. Sherlock is so very proud of his mind. I think he would hate the idea of someone trying to discredit that.

However, a sociopath, by social definition, is much more emotional. A sociopath is seen as someone who doesn’t have emotions. Who doesn’t feel. This is what Sherlock strives to be. He wants to be emotionless. He thinks it would be the easiest for him, the least painful, and it’s an idea Mycroft seems to favour as well. Protecting his little brother’s heart. What can we deduce about that?

 

In HLV Sherlock twice labels himself as a sociopath. Once as he tries to separate himself from his emotions in the situation regarding Mary so that John can make the choices he needs to make and once right before he shoot someone in the head. Clearly he is shielding his heart in the first case and in the second trying to reaffirm himself that he should feel no guilt, because if he’s a sociopath there is no guilt to be had.

 

Moriarty I think is probably a true psychopath. Mary... well... I am fearing she might be too. I'm still trying to piece all my thoughts on her together, but I just don't know where the lies start and end. How deep they go. How good is she at faking?

 

…I am far too verbose.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I think I understand that part, but why ask "how did you stand the pain" and why is it the last thing he seeks as he flat lines, Sherlock has been in that kind of mental, emotional, and physical pain...so why seek out Moriarty at the very end. I could be over thinking it, of course, but it does bear a question mark in my mind.

[Ally.C]

I think I understand that part, but why ask "how did you stand the pain" and why is it the last thing he seeks as he flat lines, Sherlock has been in that kind of mental, emotional, and physical pain...so why seek out Moriarty at the very end. I could be over thinking it, of course, but it does bear a question mark in my mind.

 

Pain of death, perhaps? Sherlock clearly knows he's dying. He's been told by many in his mind, that he has just been murdered.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Pain of death, perhaps? Sherlock clearly knows he's dying. He's been told by many in his mind, that he has just been murdered.

 

  A good point, but for Moriarty, death was instant. No pain, no lingering death. Molly and Anderson are trying to save him from death, the child Sherlock says he hasn't been murdered yet, Mycroft is the one who tells him that it's a possibility but then does help him by spurring him on to find the one thing in his mind palace that will keep him from going into deep shock and death....Redbeard. Unfortunately Sherlock knows how his beloved pet dies, so it's little comfort and little help. "They are putting me down too. No fun, is it."

[T.o.b.y]

I think I understand that part, but why ask "how did you stand the pain" and why is it the last thing he seeks as he flat lines, Sherlock has been in that kind of mental, emotional, and physical pain...so why seek out Moriarty at the very end. I could be over thinking it, of course, but it does bear a question mark in my mind.

 

I don't know whether he is actually seeking him out. It didn't seem to me like he had full control over what was happening in his mind. Who has? It seemed to me more like he was finally giving in to pain and dying after both logic and calming memories had failed to save him.

 

It seems ironic that his mortal enemy is who urges him back to life, but then, what does Sherlock live for if not to fight people like him in order to protect the few he loves. A dragon slayer, remember. With a vow to keep. Moriarty probably reminded him of why he was needed.

 

I do not think Sherlock has really understood even now that his friends need him for his own self. If the last he knew of John, for example, had been him content in a nice house, happily married to the lovely Mary Morstan and expecting their child, I very much doubt he would have taken as much trouble about surviving. But Moriarty reminds him that things are not at all safe and well for those he left behind, that there is evil and pain and danger out there. Which means he must go back - those things are, after all "his area".

 

After he has made sure that the marriage is patched up and the threat of Magnussen averted, it does not seem like he considers leaving John and Mary a breach of his vow. Which confirms my impression that he simply does not fully understand that they would still want or need him around.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

It seems ironic that his mortal enemy is who urges him back to life, but then, what does Sherlock live for if not to fight people like him in order to protect the few he loves. A dragon slayer, remember. With a vow to keep. Moriarty probably reminded him of why he was needed.

 

    Oh definitely I thought it poetic justice that is would be Moriarty that would save Sherlock's life.

[T.o.b.y]

Concerning "is Sherlock really a sociopath". Well, I must say I have no idea what that actually would be (is it even a real medical term? If so, for what?), but here's a quote from the Q+A by Steve Moffat on how "human" Sherlock is meant to be:

 

"SM: I think the frightening thing about Sherlock Holmes is that he actually is human, he’s completely human, and he has all the impulses and the feelings that every other human being has, but he suppresses them in order to be a better detective, and it’s on those moments where he doesn’t successfully suppress it that he gets into trouble. He believes that emotion gets in the way of his brilliant brain, and on the evidence of the show so far and of the original stories he’s completely right. When he gets emotional, he gets blind. He doesn’t spot Mary as a fraud as he should have as she points out in that episode. Ages ago, he should have spotted it. You know when you see the word ‘Liar’ all around her – as some people have noticed – when he first meets her there’s a whole blizzard of words and one of them is liar and he ignores that word because he wants to like her."

[leanne_maybe]

This is a fascinating conversation. I also think Moriarty is what Sherlock could have been, although I agree that he fits the definition of a sociopath (which is not clearly defined as different from psychopath, except as has been said, in the public understanding) but Sherlock doesn't. I think Magnusson is what Sherlock could have been too - Moriarty is what he could have been if he just chased the excitement, and Magnusson what he could have been if he used his brain power and the mind palace for evil.

I thought there was an interesting parallel in the 2 finales. They were both about information thought to be stored physically actually being stored mentally, meaning the person carrying it was killed. In TRF Sherlock needed the information and it was taken from him by Moriarty shooting himself. In HLV Sherlock used that idea to get rid of Magnusson's information.

[leanne_maybe]

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Just an observation here, but in canon James Moriarty was a professor of mathematics and wrote a book called Dynamics of an Asteroid. Did anyone notice in HLV who the mathematics genius is and the book Dynamics of Mathematics that was written by this person?

Wasn't it Mummy Holmes?

!!!!

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

I thought there was an interesting parallel in the 2 finales. They were both about information thought to be stored physically actually being stored mentally, meaning the person carrying it was killed. In TRF Sherlock needed the information and it was taken from him by Moriarty shooting himself. In HLV Sherlock used that idea to get rid of Magnusson's information.

 

   In "The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton" Sherlock burns the contents of Milverton's safe after the Master Blackmailer is shot dead by one of his victims. So I suppose, since Magnussen's contents of his vault was his mind, shooting him was Sherlock's equivalent of burning his vault to the ground.

[T.o.b.y]

 In "The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton" Sherlock burns the contents of Milverton's safe after the Master Blackmailer is shot dead by one of his victims. So I suppose, since Magnussen's contents of his vault was his mind, shooting him was Sherlock's equivalent of burning his vault to the ground.

 

Yes, I suppose it was. And I found it so satisfying. Merry Christmas indeed. While I can understand those who cheer on seeing Moriarty alive and well (even though I myself am appalled at what I consider a very bad artistic choice there), I whole-heartedly hope Magnussen is dead for good and I cannot imagine anyone being happy at his revival. He was seriously vile.

 

I think it was very fitting that Mycroft turned out to be who Magnussen was after ultimately. He's sort of the the evil version of Mycroft (or rather, the more evil version), just as Moriarty is the evil version of Sherlock in a way. I think for the next series, they need an antagonist for John. In canon, that is Moran, in my opinion. Too bad they didn't make more of him.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Even though every tv screen in London show Moriarty's face and a voice saying "Did you miss me?" I'm not convinced at all that it is actually Jim Moriarty. Surely Mofftiss is more savvy then to try to pull something like that.

[T.o.b.y]

Even though every tv screen in London show Moriarty's face and a voice saying "Did you miss me?" I'm not convinced at all that it is actually Jim Moriarty. Surely Mofftiss is more savvy then to try to pull something like that.

 

Oh I do wish you were right...

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

All the interviews after TRF stated that that Moriarty was dead. I know Moffat is big on resurrections, but surely they have to have something far better up their sleeves.

[Ally.C]

Wasn't Moran in the ACD canon the son of someone political? Possibly the Moran in TEH wasn't Moran as we think, but his father and we are now seeing our Moran coming into play?

 

Bets on Tom, anyone?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

No, Moran was a professional sniper in the employ of Professor Moriarty. According to Holmes, Moran was the second most dangerous man in all of London.

[T.o.b.y]

All the interviews after TRF stated that that Moriarty was dead.

 

Yes, and I bought it and was so relieved they were apparently being sensible. I really should know better by now than to believe people.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Don't throw in the towel yet. We got a few months before the next Season. Mofftiss are good at what they do.

[quirkymomma]

I wanted to address everyone's hatred of Mary. I was myself quite surprised at how much everyone dislikes Mary now. I don't think she's quite so horrible or conniving as everyone seems to think. I'll admit the "surgery" angle was a little hard for me to swallow but I figure is Sherlock said it I can take it. Recall the tunnel scene, Sherlock says 5 years back she became Mary but she couldn't of been involved with John for more than 2 years because she was there for him when Sherlock "died", Conclusion, she decided to leave that life at least 2 probably 3 years before she me John. Also she was former CIA (refer to the vault scene) so undoubtedly she started the path to assassin with at least a little persuasion. Yes she did free lance, not so good, but she did decide to leave it. Possibly she couldn't stomach it anymore. She does love John and that's why she was trying to kill Magnussen because she can't bare the thought of losing him. Her tracking Sherlock alone with a gun, meh, I personally don't see it as planning to kill him but I guess I'm alone on that. Also it took John 1 or 2 (can't remember) months to forgive her. Just because it was the next scene doesn't mean it was that quickly. Mary made a reference to not talking which I took to mean not talking at all not just on "the subject". 

 

Anyhow just my thoughts. There are other points I can agree with the majority on and there are somethings I wouldn't mind being different but although Mary has totally changed for me I don't totally loathe her like most people on here seem to now.

[sherlockandjohn]

Unless Sherlock doesn't know about him. An older sibling that was disgraced early on. Even Mycroft wouldn't mention his name, as you said Slithylove, "the other one". Maybe that's why it's so personal for Jim to bring Sherlock down. The favored one, the baby of the family? Just ideas, of course, no real substance. But there are Holmesian scholars who have wondered if Moriarty was a Holmes siblings. So you are not alone in that theory. And way was Jim chained and in a straight jacket in the dying Sherlock's mind palace? And why is he the last person Sherlock seeks out? And Sherlock asks him something like "How did you stand the pain?" or something along those lines.

 

  Mycroft had Jim tortured, but Sherlock had under gone torture at the hands of the Serbs, so that doesn't quite cover it.

 

Haha, this is so cool, because I just re-watched HLV and had the exact same thought It is crazy, I know, but if anything, the ending of HLV should prove to us that the writers of 'Sherlock' are, in fact, crazy

[Ally.C]

No, Moran was a professional sniper in the employ of Professor Moriarty. According to Holmes, Moran was the second most dangerous man in all of London.

I know Moran was a sniper (strange parallel with Mary in HLV), but I thought I had read somewhere that sniper Moran had a father in the government. But, like I said, that's something fuzzy in my mind. Need to get out my complete collection again for a bit of a re-read during hiatus. Haha.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

And I love that kind of crazy. It is sssooo creative, off the wall, and unpredictable.