Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Arcadia]

3. I'm sorry but this is one of those scenes where my mind HaS not been changed. Arcadia, I LOVE Die Hard, so yippi kye yay @#%#@*#@%*%#. Or in Sherlocks words, Merry Christmas! I am very grateful & appreciatibe of the gift thst he gave us all.

Hey, I get that. Die Hard is a pretty enjoyable movie. I used to like it a heck of a lot. And the second one too. And Lethal Weapon. But now -- I don't know if it's because the world has changed, or because I have, but the attitude towards violence that kind of movie embodies no longer works -- for me. I've seen an awful lot of movies, maybe it's just getting stale.

 

I still enjoy Die Hard to some extent, mostly because, hey, Bruce Willis -- and it's clever -- AND, his adversaries are armed. It was a kill or be killed situation, unlike Sherlock vs. CAM, so it's easier for me to go with the flow.

 

Anyway, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm just trying to explain my point of view -- to myself, as much as to anyone here. At least, I hope that's what I'm doing. When things bother me my brain niggles at me until I figure out why.

 

It's a hard subject to discuss because you start mucking about with moral standards, which are not universal. So there's bound to be disagreement. But not, I hope, offense???

[Pamela]

Regarding that interview - John didn't shoot the cabbie in the back as Moffat said!

[Arcadia]

A few months ago, you called Sherlock "a juvenile male fantasy," and the two of us agreed that Moffat is, so to speak, the juvenile male doing the fantasizing.

Yeah, thanks, I forgot about that, but I still think it's a pretty good observation. I have juvenile male relatives, they are inventive and funny, and oh-so-immature. I am both amused and appalled by them, often at the same time! Sound like anyone?

 

I don't know whether his interviews are sheer bravado, or whether we manage to find something in his writing that he didn't intentionally put there -- but I really don't find it necessary to accept his stated interpretation of "Last Vow" (or "Study in Pink").  I'd rather let the characters speak for themselves.

Oh gawd, don't make me dwell on his interpretation of ASiP too, it will ruin it for me I'm sure. I can't help but be influenced by a writer's intentions, it's just the way I am. Usually it's all to the good but in this case I'd rather stay happily delusional.

 

But in an effort (ooof) to be fair to Moffat, I will say that I don't think he ever always says what he really thinks; he's very defensive for some reason. (The reason being the 80 bazillion people questioning every word he writes, perhaps?) Maybe it's because I am delusional, but it's hard for me to believe that someone who writes something as complex and nuanced as ASiP and HLV is also someone who truly believes in simplistic pronouncements like "I think people who behave like that should get shot." Maybe he just hates being questioned interviewed?

 

Or maybe, as I said, all the credit for nuance goes to the actors and director? But Moffat chose them, so it must be what he likes.....

[Arcadia]

Regarding that interview - John didn't shoot the cabbie in the back as Moffat said!

Yeah, I was confused by that too! But if I'm not mistaken, he shot him in the back in the unaired pilot (i.e., the original script); I remember, because the cabbie's blood was spattered on Sherlock's face. But in the aired version, definitely not in the back. Again, director's choice maybe, not the writer's???? Or a request from BBC?

[Carol the Dabbler]

... it's hard for me to believe that someone who writes something as complex and nuanced as ASiP and HLV is also someone who truly believes in simplistic pronouncements like "I think people who behave like that should get shot." Maybe he just hates being questioned interviewed?

He does tend to come across as a bit prickly. So yeah, let's go with that -- Stephen Moffat isn't really a heartless bastard, he just plays one in interviews.

 

Regarding that interview - John didn't shoot the cabbie in the back as Moffat said!

Yeah, I was confused by that too! But if I'm not mistaken, he shot him in the back in the unaired pilot (i.e., the original script); I remember, because the cabbie's blood was spattered on Sherlock's face. But in the aired version, definitely not in the back.

It hardly matters, I think, since in both cases John shot from cover. Basically, he was a sniper. But even shooting him in the front is hardly the point that Moffat seems to have missed. John wasn't being a coward, he was shooting to save Sherlock's life (or believed that he was), and Sherlock recognized that. Mr. Moffat should listen to his own characters!

[Zain]

 

Regarding that interview - John didn't shoot the cabbie in the back as Moffat said!

Yeah, I was confused by that too! But if I'm not mistaken, he shot him in the back in the unaired pilot (i.e., the original script); I remember, because the cabbie's blood was spattered on Sherlock's face. But in the aired version, definitely not in the back. Again, director's choice maybe, not the writer's???? Or a request from BBC?

 

 

Someone had a change of mind, at any case.

Well, it is less controversial, at least. The arm/shoulder is often chosen as a non-lethal spot to injure. Extremities and all that. Of course, there's the brachial artery, but in general, a shot to the extremities is less likely to cause death, though the consequences like permanent limitation of the target's mobility and so on are still there. It's like with the legs. You may hit the femoral artery, but it is a much more preferable spot to aim at than the torso/abdominal area like Mary did. The organs are a bit cramped up there. A lot of things your bullet has got to miss unless you wish ill on your target by default.

Probably it was a decision to soften the issue around John's shot. He took the shot to take the cabby down, not to outright slaughter him. That way, the cabby's death does not appear to be the intended outcome, but a preferable one. Just softens the edges around just that debate we had about Mary's shot. There was quite a distance between him and the cabby, yet he only missed the "safer" shoulder/arm by a small margin.

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

Can you come up with an alternative solution to the Magnussen problem that does not involve Sherlock killing him? At the time he did just that, I mean. I've read a lot along the lines of "I wish Sherlock had outsmarted him instead." Okay, but how?

 

 

How could I resist such a challenge?

 

1. Using Mycroft's extensive network to collect dirt on Magnussen. Beat him at his own game. 

 

2. Or, what I favor much more, because it would be the courageous and moral thing to do, Mary could have stepped forward herself. Asked Sherlock to contact Mycroft and work out a deal which would allow her to repent for what she did, and he'd ensure she'd be protected.

 

...

Another post you may tear into to your heart's content

 

Don't mind if I do...

 

What I actually meant was, do you have an alternative course of action for Sherlock at the exact moment when he shot Magnussen, meaning at Appledore, after he found out that the "vaults" he came there to see (and probably destroy) only existed in Magnussen's mind, when Magnussen has announced that he intends to watch Sherlock and John be arrested for trying to sell him state secrets.

 

If Mycroft was capable of using Magnussen's own methods against him, I think he'd have done so long ago. Because while Mycroft claims he doesn't bother with Magnussen because he never goes after anybody of "real importance", Magnussen voices the opinion that Mycroft has been waiting for an opportunity to take him down for quite a while.

 

As for the "Mary turns herself in" solution, that would take care of Mary's side of the problem, sure, but it wouldn't change a bit about the threat Magnussen presents to England, possibly the world, in general. And I do believe Sherlock shot the villain not so much to protect Mary as all of his victims, past, present and future. And they were quite a lot, it seems... Sherlock took the case before he even knew Mary was involved.

 

So - any other suggestions? How to beat Magnussen, how to actually win against him? I can't think of anything, that's for sure...

 

 

[Arcadia]

If everything else in the episode remains the same, no. That's why it was written that way, imo. Sherlock was set up to lose no matter what he did.

 

The only other course of action I can think of would be for John & Sherlock to surrender, and be arrested for turning over the laptop, or run for their lives, and become fugitives. Neither method would have defeated CAM. Although it might have bought them time to come up with a plan.

 

No, I think for Sherlock to avoid his fate, you'd have to go back a little further than the scene on the patio. If handled a little differently I actually think the laptop trick could have worked. Maybe if Sherlock had forked over the password, logged in, brought up some sensitive files, then Mycroft walks in and finds CAM looking at state secrets ... ??? Don't know enough about how the law would work in a situation like that.

 

Or if you go even further back, and settle the problem of Mary's past differently, so that she ceases to be the pressure point. Give her up or change her identity. But that's obviously not the tale they wanted to tell.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I doubt that the laptop ploy could have worked, unless there was some way to cover up the fact that Sherlock had brought it there -- Magnussen could always claim entrapment.

 

OK, how about we just rewrite the entire story?

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I still think Mycroft had a hand in it....or he thought he did. The blasted laptop should not have been out of his control what so ever. Absolutely not sitting on a kitchen table in front of his brother who he knew was after CAM. I think Mycroft was using Sherlock to try to get to CAM and he screwed up. Mycroft most likely also believed that the vaults where real but since he was supposed to be protecting CAM he couldn't be seen as being in league with his colleague, Lady Smallwood. Maybe Mycroft didn't think that she would go to Sherlock for help but once she did, there was a game to be played that Mycroft thought he could win.

 

 Sometimes Mycroft is just to devious for his own good and often times it's Sherlock that gets caught in the middle. Just like in "ASiB".

[T.o.b.y]

I still think Mycroft had a hand in it....or he thought he did. The blasted laptop should not have been out of his control what so ever. Absolutely not sitting on a kitchen table in front of his brother who he knew was after CAM. I think Mycroft was using Sherlock to try to get to CAM and he screwed up. Mycroft most likely also believed that the vaults where real but since he was supposed to be protecting CAM he couldn't be seen as being in league with his colleague, Lady Smallwood. Maybe Mycroft didn't think that she would go to Sherlock for help but once she did, there was a game to be played that Mycroft thought he could win.

 

 Sometimes Mycroft is just to devious for his own good and often times it's Sherlock that gets caught in the middle. Just like in "ASiB".

 

I suppose you are right, Fox. I believe Mycroft expected everything that happened at the end of His Last Vow except the shooting. That I think was a genuine surprise.

 

[Arcadia]

I doubt that the laptop ploy could have worked, unless there was some way to cover up the fact that Sherlock had brought it there -- Magnussen could always claim entrapment.

I would think Mycroft could cover up just about anything he wanted. I have a bet with myself that CAM's death has been released to the press as a suicide. On the other hand, I think CAM would have just blackmailed any judge and jury who tried him, so it's all moot, really.

 

OK, how about we just rewrite the entire story?

And here we were just wondering why Mr. Moffat might be just a wee bit defensive....

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Thank you, T.o.b.y but that little rant really didn't answer the above questions, did it.

[Zain]

 If handled a little differently I actually think the laptop trick could have worked. Maybe if Sherlock had forked over the password, logged in, brought up some sensitive files, then Mycroft walks in and finds CAM looking at state secrets ... ??? Don't know enough about how the law would work in a situation like that.

 

 

 

While I love all of your other solutions, the part I like most about your post is the focus on the laptop trick. I think over all of these 140 pages we've forgotten to ask one question. And it's kind of basic, and not very amazing a question. But: How do we know there's something on that laptop? Magnussen mentions a GPS tracker, and we did buy that. But what if there was a GPS tracker, yes, but also a program that would register if the laptop was used? The laptop's camera is sufficient to prove that Magnussen had not only been in possession of Mycroft's laptop, he had tried to access restricted data. It's not exactly a difficult setup.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It may have worked if the vaults were real and Magnussen didn't know that Mycroft was already out to get him somehow.  And I also like the idea that the laptop was nothing more then a decoy, kind of like the thumb drive Sherlock offered Moriarty at the pool.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree that Mycroft must have been in on the plan -- can't imagine why he'd have let Mummy use his laptop as a cutting board otherwise.  But what exactly was the plan?

 

Why does Sherlock assume that any physical vaults must be located at Appledore?  Magnussen presumably has properties all over the world, including that huge office building in London.  Why not there, or better yet, why not decentralized for security purposes?  Even if there had been physical vaults, Plan A might have fallen apart if none of them were at Appledore.  So did Sherlock realize (or strongly suspect) all along that there were no physical vaults, and play Mycroft and John for fools?

 

Did Mycroft just assume the vaults were physical and fail to see the need for a Plan B?  And if there was a Plan B, then what was it -- or more to the point, what did Mycroft think it was?  He was obviously NOT expecting what actually did happen.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I just realized that my previous post omitted the one thing that puzzles me the most -- the gun.

 

Why did Sherlock even bother asking John to bring it?  Did he actually expect to get it past Magnussen's security guards?

 

And why were they not searched, either before boarding the helicopter or upon arrival at Appledore?  I suppose it's possible that they were searched, and Sherlock managed to either bribe a guard or pull some sleight-of-hand trick -- but in either of those cases, I'd think John would have been extremely conscious of the gun in his pocket for the rest of the evening (and might therefore have noticed Sherlock going for it), so no, my best guess is that none of that happened.

 

On the other hand, why were they searched at Baker Street?  They were not expecting Magnussen to come there, so they had no reason to be armed.  And in fact it was just a coincidence that John still had the tire iron and Billy's knife in his pockets.

 

Popping into the real world for a moment, I suppose it's obvious why they weren't searched at Appledore -- it would have ruined the plot.  But if we were expected to simply not notice that they weren't searched, then why the heck did Moffat include that fairly pointless Baker Street search, which primed us to expect a search at Appledore?  Was it merely to work in a reprise of the "glad to see you" joke?

 

[Arcadia]

Why does Sherlock assume that any physical vaults must be located at Appledore?

The only thing I can think of is that CAM deliberately fed that information to the world as camouflage. Sherlock seemed awfully sure of it right from the start, almost like it was common knowledge.

 

Now that I think of it, wasn't he reading information about Appledore from a website? Like a Wikipedia page or something, which CAM could have planted.

 

Another thing that puzzles me is that Sherlock states (I think) that CAM doesn't keep computer records .... yet he thinks CAM's glasses are connected to a computer. (?)

[Arcadia]

I just realized that my previous post omitted the one thing that puzzles me the most -- the gun.

 

Why did Sherlock even bother asking John to bring it?  Did he actually expect to get it past Magnussen's security guards?

Well, Sherlock did say it was their most dangerous mission ever, or something like that. Maybe he envisioned they might need a gun to protect themselves from evil minions?

 

Here's a thought; maybe they weren't searched for weapons because they were "invited guests"? CAM might have been just arrogant enough to assume there was no physical threat from them, and told his security to wave them through?

[Arcadia]

While I love all of your other solutions, the part I like most about your post is the focus on the laptop trick. I think over all of these 140 pages we've forgotten to ask one question. And it's kind of basic, and not very amazing a question. But: How do we know there's something on that laptop? Magnussen mentions a GPS tracker, and we did buy that. But what if there was a GPS tracker, yes, but also a program that would register if the laptop was used? The laptop's camera is sufficient to prove that Magnussen had not only been in possession of Mycroft's laptop, he had tried to access restricted data. It's not exactly a difficult setup.

So, the laptop itself could have contained a means for incriminating CAM? Ooooooo, I like it. Mycroft would definitely have to be in on it in that case, but I've always figured that he was.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I fully agree that CAM created the illusion of hard copy evidence. He flashed a few envelopes at Baker Street with reference to Lady Smallwood. He wanted people to believe the vaults existed.

[Caya]

Honestly, I'm still not convinced that CAM doesn't have vaults somewhere, no matter what he claimed. Sure, he wouldn't have to access them very often due to his mental vault. But regardless of how powerful a media mogul he is, he can't possibly print stuff willy-nilly without any physical evidence. Great Britain does have libel laws, rather harsh ones iirc. He'd be sued into oblivion if he couldn't prove his claims, and his mind palace doesn't exactly constitute proof.

 

The whole thing smacks of Underpants Gnomes logic, really.

 

1. Get incriminating evidence

2. Destroy it

3. ????

4. Profit!

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Nevertheless he himself stated that he didn't need proof all he had to do was put something in priby and people automatically believed it.

[Slithytove]

Wow - lots of pages of theories and questions since I last visited! You're a very bright bunch, and Moffat should hire you as script advisers. Maybe then he wouldn't have so many plot holes and logical inconsistencies, and might even rethink the idea that John is a giggling murderer and Sherlock the type of man who can remain unchanged after blowing someone's brains out. If they take that line in S4, it seems they are missing a big opportunity to develop his character. Or maybe Moffat is just fooling us again.

 

If Sherlock had bothered to think of a back up plan in case anything went wrong at Appledore, "leverage" would have been his best bet. Someone as unprincipled as CAM must have skeletons in his closet. I know he has incriminating evidence against important people but I bet Mycroft has files on everyone, up to and including the Queen. I've always assumed that his apparent reluctance to move against CAM was a matter of timing - either CAM was currently useful to him, or a blackmail threat to someone very important had to be defused first, or diplomatic issues were involved. Mycroft seems a man of great subtlety, right from the moment he first appears in canon, and I imagine he weighs up the balance of power very carefully.

 

But how can Sherlock resolve the problem on the spot? I'm not sure he can, because all the writing leads him to that point. All he could do, unless Mary leaps out of the shadows and gives herself up, would be to allow himself to be arrested. It would have been easier for Mycroft to get him off the treason charge than a murder charge, given that the evidence for the former is more questionable than the latter. He did commit murder in front of plenty of witnesses, yet he's still not going to jail, so couldn't his brother have got him off the hook over the laptop? Then they could then have put those great minds together to work out a way to silence CAM now that they know he doesn't actually have evidence against anybody for anything. When you think about it, doesn't this lack of material evidence strengthen Mycroft's hand, rather than weaken it?

 

Of course, I have a bit of a problem with the "keep Mary safe" issue, because I don't think she should be shielded from justice. As for the supposed avengers, even if they really exist, CAM only threatens to contact them if John refuses to be humiliated, and John doesn't. Personally, I think it's another of CAM's power plays but, if it is a real threat, she would be safe enough behind bars. At the very least, she could be charged with grievous bodily harm against Sherlock, although I think the CPS would go for attempted murder.

 

Now, the question of the mysterious Harry.....Could she indeed be afraid to meet Sherlock? I did wonder why they didn't introduce her character at the wedding. Surely they must be keeping her up their sleeves for a reason.

 

Thank you, all of you, for your support over the past days. Family landed safely in Madison on Friday and we Skyped with them yesterday. They are all very excited and the kids seem to love the place, although our 16 year old granddaughter had to go off for a cry whilst we were talking to her. We miss them very much but Skype did help. I was sceptical that it would, but it did make them seem much closer to us. Thanks again.

[Arcadia]

I fully agree that CAM created the illusion of hard copy evidence. He flashed a few envelopes at Baker Street with reference to Lady Smallwood. He wanted people to believe the vaults existed.

Oh, of course! I forgot that. CAM was using that to draw Sherlock in, wasn't he? And Sherlock, the doof, fell for it. I remember thinking at the time he was sure quick to jump to conclusions about that envelope in CAM's pocket.