Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Zain]

Back to the discussion: Isn't it possible that Mary did call, not knowing, of course, that Magnusson already had, and therefore Sherlock's deduction is intact?

 

You mean there were three calls to the emergency line?

I mean, it's possible. Still, how would she have gotten the operator's attention if she did not talk?

If she had fired her gun a second time around, Sherlock would have mentioned it during his deduction scene. He'd have to implement that detail.

 

We more or less know the call hadn't been called in question until Sherlock experimented. The police and the emergency line didn't find it peculiar enough to warrant further queries.

If they counted two calls but only one person claimed to have made a call, it would raise suspicion. Likewise with three calls.

If they counted two calls and John and Magnussen claimed to have made a call, it's likely Sherlock would be aware of it. There's no reason the police would make a secret out of it.

From my perspective, the only thing that works here is that they thought the two calls to be from the same person, e.g.

1st call: ( Gunshot) . Phone call ends.

2nd call: Person calls in and reports that someone was shot.

 

It's possible to get a third call in there. It's also possible the 1st call was made by Mary (as Sherlock deduces) but she'd have to get the operator's attention in a not yet defined way. A female scream would raise suspicion. Just like an anonymous call with disguised voice.

 

I think it boils down to the question how Mary, is she did, made the call in a non-suspicious way, and in a way that didn't show that she was female (with the only female on the premises being Janine who was out of it, as John would tell the police in his statement).

 

Btw, Pamela: I tried quoting myself, and it works for me just fine. Strange. So maybe it's a malfunction on your side? Did you check the forum for previous topics that may be related to your problem? Maybe it's a known issue...

[Pamela]

 

 

 

Back to the discussion: Isn't it possible that Mary did call, not knowing, of course, that Magnusson already had, and therefore Sherlock's deduction is intact?

 

You mean there were three calls to the emergency line?

I mean, it's possible. Still, how would she have gotten the operator's attention if she did not talk?

If she had fired her gun a second time around, Sherlock would have mentioned it during his deduction scene. He'd have to implement that detail.

 

We more or less know the call hadn't been called in question until Sherlock experimented. The police and the emergency line didn't find it peculiar enough to warrant further queries.

If they counted two calls but only one person claimed to have made a call, it would raise suspicion. Likewise with three calls.

If they counted two calls and John and Magnussen claimed to have made a call, it's likely Sherlock would be aware of it. There's no reason the police would make a secret out of it.

From my perspective, the only thing that works here is that they thought the two calls to be from the same person, e.g.

1st call: ( Gunshot) . Phone call ends.

2nd call: Person calls in and reports that someone was shot.

 

It's possible to get a third call in there. It's also possible the 1st call was made by Mary (as Sherlock deduces) but she'd have to get the operator's attention in a not yet defined way. A female scream would raise suspicion. Just like an anonymous call with disguised voice.

 

I think it boils down to the question how Mary, is she did, made the call in a non-suspicious way, and in a way that didn't show that she was female (with the only female on the premises being Janine who was out of it, as John would tell the police in his statement).

 

Btw, Pamela: I tried quoting myself, and it works for me just fine. Strange. So maybe it's a malfunction on your side? Did you check the forum for previous topics that may be related to your problem? Maybe it's a known issue...

 

 

Zain: I'm quoting your post and trying this. It might be that my reply box just looks different for some reason. At least I can see that I'm now typing below the end of your quote, so it should work. I'll see after I click "add reply."

[Pamela]

It worked, except I don't know what those weird things are before and after your quotes.

[Arcadia]

They're html code for "non-breaking spaces" :-) But why they're there I haven't a clue. I've been having trouble with the quote feature lately too.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

The thing is why would Magnussen call the emergency line? I mean yes, Mary was holding a gun on Sherlock, but there was no guarantee that she was going to use it, especially on Sherlock, he husband's best friend and supposedly hers as well. And she might not have fired at all if he hadn't taken that one step towards her when she warned him not too.

 

  Another thing of note, Sherlock would have been able to see Magnussen and his actions even as Sherlock kept his focus on Mary. Maybe he was curious as to who had made the emergency call. It would account for him knowing the 5 minute signature denoting John's call.

 

  Why would the operator know who was making the call or even care?  How would the operator know Janine? And why should the operator know it?

 

  Unless you're saying that this was a regular service used by Magnussen and Janine called the number on a regular bases?

 

  Not quite seeing the reasoning behind that but maybe you can explain it?

[Slithytove]

There are a lot of questions that need answering -I've always thought it strange that the dispatcher didn't reassure John that an ambulance was on its way - but the ones regarding CAM are perhaps the easiest to fathom.

 

Why would he call an ambulance? Because he has been trying to get leverage over Mycroft for a long time and, if Sherlock dies, that power is gone.

 

Why didn't he tell John he had phoned? Maybe because he is a horrid man little git who enjoys other people's misery........

 

I don't really see how Sherlock could have had access to the emergency services records. Maybe Mycroft could get them but, if Sherlock approached him, surely he would have said, "No, go back to hospital before you drop dead, you idiot." If he did manage to get access, he would know definitely whether it was Mary or not, as 999 calls are recorded, so he wouldn't need to speculate about the times involved.

 

It is true that CAM would have been visible to Sherlock in the brief period of time before the shooting. However, if someone was pointing a gun at me, I think I would be wholly focused on that, and paying minimal attention to the actions of anyone else. Even Sherlock, the world's most observant man, could be forgiven for being single-minded (and scared) when staring down the barrel of a gun.

 

I hope it is all a bit of clever plotting that is going to turn up in S4. Or maybe we are just overestimating the extent of their cleverness. After all, what was the brilliant answer to S1's cliffhanger? Moriarty got a phone call and changed his mind. And for S2? He jumped onto a big airbag. So I don't expect anything particularly sophisticated from S4.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I hope it is all a bit of clever plotting that is going to turn up in S4. Or maybe we are just overestimating the extent of their cleverness. After all, what was the brilliant answer to S1's cliffhanger? Moriarty got a phone call and changed his mind. And for S2? He jumped onto a big airbag. So I don't expect anything particularly sophisticated from S4.

 

Neither do I, to be honest. I expect they'll tie up whatever they have left from series 3 fairly quickly and then move on to something new. I love this show, but it's better to appreciate it as a series of glorious moments than as a coherent story over time, I am afraid.

 

 

[Zain]

 

 

  Why would the operator know who was making the call or even care?  How would the operator know Janine? And why should the operator know it?

 

  Unless you're saying that this was a regular service used by Magnussen and Janine called the number on a regular bases?

 

  

 

 

I think you misunderstood me.

I was not implying that the operator knows Janine.

 

The calls are recorded. If two calls went in, they were registered, and since only one person is claiming to have made a call, the police would have a closer look. There's a potential witness to the crime, after all. Nobody expects the criminal to call in.

I was simply wondering how Mary would have gotten the emergency service to actually send out a car. After all, she couldn't have talked. A female caller woud have been most suspicious since there was no female on the premises other than Janine who according to John's statement was definitely out of it. It would have attracted the police's attention if Mary had said something. So it is very unlikely that she uttered even one syllable. So how did she get the operator's attention? They don't send out help on a hunch just on a hunch. Think of all the prank calls. They also wouldn't have known what to send for: police, ambulance, fire brigade?

With Magnussen, there's the shot. So what could have Mary used?

 

I actually think Sherlock registered Magnussen's movements but his focus was too much on Mary to reconstruct them in his deductions. Have a look at the deduction scene. He remembers that Magnussen had turned to his left but from the moment his deductions begin (when he was shot), Magnussen's body suddenly is shown to be totally upright when the bullet hits Sherlock. 

 

The phone lights up then, too. Next shot shows Magnussen hunched over again.

Just noticed when rewatching it to be completely sure I wasn't imagining things.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

I was simply wondering how Mary would have gotten the emergency service to actually send out a car. After all, she couldn't have talked. A female caller woud have been most suspicious since there was no female on the premises other than Janine who according to John's statement was definitely out of it. It would have attracted the police's attention if Mary had said something.

 

  This is what is what is throwing me off apparently. Why would a an emergency operator be suspicious of a female caller from that address? How would she know Janine being the only female. But if we are talking about the call going through a switch board in the Magnussen complex, then yeah I can see where there might be a problem with Mary speaking out loud.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I don't see how we can rule Mary out as having phoned or even spoken.  As long as she didn't give her name and said nothing too specific, they could even assume that some woman on another floor (or in a nearby building) had heard a shot (or seen something through the window) and phoned.  We have heard nothing about how many calls were received or when or by whom (male or female).  But even though Sherlock might not have had access to the 999 logs, he would surely have been questioned by the police, and my best guess is that they told him about the call(s).  So yeah -- one, two, or three calls.

 

 

As regards the quoting problem, it's been flaky ever since a software upgrade a year or so ago.  The best workaround I've found is to toggle into plain-vanilla mode by clicking the "light switch" at the upper left of the editor toolbar.  Position your cursor at the very end of all the text and codes, hit a couple of Enters, and start typing your reply.  As soon as you've typed anything, you can toggle back into full-feature mode and still be able to type outside the quote box.

 

Tim, do you know of any upcoming changes to the quote software?  If not, I can write up a help thread with more detail on the workaround -- unless you have a better method.

 

[Slithytove]

When you make a 999 call, you are asked for your details. If she rang as herself, Mary presumably refused to give them. This would be suspicious in itself. Now add that to the fact that there were two calls, one from John and one from an unknown woman. Unless Lestrade and co. are as dim as Sherlock alleges, they should know a woman is involved and is possibly the shooter.

 

If she posed as an innocent bystander who heard the shot or saw something through a window (a very high one - CAM was in the penthouse), she would have to give fictitious details as a genuine innocent bystander would have no reason to hide their identity. The police would want to interview this person to find out exactly what they had heard/seen, and would find that she did not exist.

 

Either way, unless Mary found some way of summoning an ambulance without speaking, the police would be able to work out that a woman must have been present at the crime, whether she withheld her details or lied about them. In my experience, if you ring 999 without speaking, the emergency services don't just turn up. They ring you back. I know this because a couple of my daughter's dear little friends, aged about 7, once dialled 999 from our home phone " for fun", and I had a call back from the police to check that everything was ok. It was very embarrassing.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

They had a eyewitness, Magnussen himself. So even if it was Mary who made the call, regardless of what she said or didn't say, since this event puts her deeper into Magnussen's net, he could say any thing he wanted. 

 

  No doubt he was interviewed by the police and we have no idea how that went.

 

 At the end of the day everything is an assumption and or a presumption without any kind of definitive answer until Moffat, Gatiss and Co. decide to give us one, if they ever do.

[Slithytove]

CAM was an eyewitness but evidently didn't shop her to the police. So he might have made the call or might have seen her make the call (in Sherlock's reconstruction, did she knock him out before or after she made the call? I can't remember). As he doesn't tell the police, it doesn't really matter.

 

Personally, I doubt we are going to learn a lot more in S4. After all, they had a massive cliffhanger after TRF and they did not give us a definite answer to some very big questions. There are also things in TRF that, far from being answered, seem to make even less sense now. I guess we just have to live with some puzzles.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

CAM was an eyewitness but evidently didn't shop her to the police. So he might have made the call or might have seen her make the call (in Sherlock's reconstruction, did she knock him out before or after she made the call? I can't remember). As he doesn't tell the police, it doesn't really matter.

 

  No, I wouldn't have expected Magnussen to give her to the police. He's a world power unto himself in his own eyes. He'd want to milk this to the hilt. If I remember right, Mary pistol whips Magnussen after she shoots Sherlock. That's when, according to Sherlock's deduction, she was supposed to have picked up a phone and called 999.

 

   Here is the screen caps that show the exact sequence of events in "His Last Vow". This page is Sherlock, John and Mary at 221b and Sherlock telling John that he hadn't called the ambulance, Mary had.

 

   

                                http://kissthemgoodbye.net/sherlock/thumbnails.php?album=13&page=13

             

[Zain]

Personally, I doubt we are going to learn a lot more in S4. After all, they had a massive cliffhanger after TRF and they did not give us a definite answer to some very big questions. There are also things in TRF that, far from being answered, seem to make even less sense now. I guess we just have to live with some puzzles.

 

I think I disagree for the first time

If we're imagining things, then yes, season 4 will probably ignore season three's events.

 

But if we truly see Magnussen make the call, this will probably be a major aspect in season 4. It'll lead to a major shift in the personal relationships "diagram." Mary, for example, could admit in the season finale (near death, in danger, when sacrificing for somebody else, whatever) that Sherlock's deductions painted a far nobler picture of her doings than they really were. It'd be a good way to go, a sign of character development which is followed by her disappearance.

The difference between TRF and HLV is that they gave us a riddle at TRF. We had a starting point (and were shown all possible props), then we were given the solution. The question was "how." HLV is different. We don't get a riddle. Let's assume Magnussen's movements are meant to be a hint. I doubt they intended for us to notice it.

 

On another note:

 

I think it's pretty clear, though, that Magnussen did reach for the phone, and reached it:

When Sherlock says "Mary, whatever he's gone on you...", you can see Magnussen's body behind Sherlock in the mirror. Then the camera shows Mary. Then it's back to Sherlock. Now Magnussen cannot be seen in the mirror anymore, just his arm. He bend down enough to be out of view.

When Mary points her gun at Magnussen after shooting Sherlock, his head is back up, you see it in the mirror.

 

If he didn't call the ambulance, who did he call/text that it is important enough to show it? I am pretty sure it is important for season 4. Only other possibility (which I to be honest don't like as much as the other one) is that it's a secret business partner. Who then wants to take revenge on Sherlock. Thus the need to keep Sherlock in England. Otherwise, how'd he get revenge?

I've considered the fact that Magnussen recorded the conversation as evidence (blackmail material?) but it's not his style. And there were more pressing matters. Survival usually tops "the work." He could have called his guards but he must have known that Mary incapacitated them. How'd she get to him without doing so?

I don't know who else would help him if he called/texted them. I imagine he doesn't have many friends. I still believe ambulance makes more sense but well.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

I still believe ambulance makes more sense but well.

 

  It might to me if I believed that Magnussen was psychic. Yes, Mary is pointing a gun at Sherlock, but that is hardly a guarantee that she is actually going to use it, at least in my mind. She might not have fired at all if Sherlock hadn't underestimated or was depending on the fact that she was the wife of his best friend, and Sherlock liked her too. He was counting  that she trusted him and took that step forward. She had warned him not to move and she was loaded for bear. But that had all taken place after Magnussen used the phone.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I think it's pretty clear, though, that Magnussen did reach for the phone, and reached it:

When Sherlock says "Mary, whatever he's gone on you...", you can see Magnussen's body behind Sherlock in the mirror. Then the camera shows Mary. Then it's back to Sherlock. Now Magnussen cannot be seen in the mirror anymore, just his arm. He bend down enough to be out of view.

When Mary points her gun at Magnussen after shooting Sherlock, his head is back up, you see it in the mirror.

 

If he didn't call the ambulance, who did he call/text that it is important enough to show it? I am pretty sure it is important for season 4. Only other possibility (which I to be honest don't like as much as the other one) is that it's a secret business partner. Who then wants to take revenge on Sherlock. Thus the need to keep Sherlock in England. Otherwise, how'd he get revenge?

I've considered the fact that Magnussen recorded the conversation as evidence (blackmail material?) but it's not his style. And there were more pressing matters. Survival usually tops "the work." He could have called his guards but he must have known that Mary incapacitated them. How'd she get to him without doing so?

 

I never noticed that bit about Magnussen reaching for his phone, and I think I've seen His Last Vow more times now than I'd care to admit... it's always interesting to find out what other people spot in the episodes and what interpretations come from that.

 

My best bet is that he was trying to contact his security staff. If I were him, I would not take it for granted that the assassin holding me at gunpoint incapacitated all of them. She could have just slipped by them unnoticed, bribed somebody, climbed in through a window, who knows. Hey, even Sherlock got in without making contact with anybody except Janine, and he didn't incapacitate her either. Of course, while Mary holds Magnussen at gunpoint, he can't call anybody without her noticing and putting a stop to it, but when Sherlock shows up, Mary is distracted and Magnussen can try to call for help - for himself, of course. He might even have tried to contact the police at that moment, why not?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Right, the police are also on 999 (or at least were a few years back), not just ambulance service.

 

I know this for a fact, because the first time I was in London, my wallet was stolen from my purse, so I went to a pay phone and followed the directions.  The first person who answered asked me which I wanted, and I can't say for sure what the other choice(s) were because I obviously needed the police.  (Then the police answered by saying "Scotland Yard," which struck me very briefly speechless.)

 

So this may answer why they didn't tell John they'd already had an ambulance call -- maybe Magnussen phoned for the police instead.

 

[Slithytove]

999 is for fire, police and ambulance. If CAM was trying to ring the police, which would make sense, and the dispatcher heard the shot, it seems likely they would send an ambulance as well as the police. Presumably that is protocol for a possible shooting.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Sounds reasonable.

[Slithytove]

 

 

Personally, I doubt we are going to learn a lot more in S4. After all, they had a massive cliffhanger after TRF and they did not give us a definite answer to some very big questions. There are also things in TRF that, far from being answered, seem to make even less sense now. I guess we just have to live with some puzzles.

I think I disagree for the first time

If we're imagining things, then yes, season 4 will probably ignore season three's events.

 

But if we truly see Magnussen make the call, this will probably be a major aspect in season 4. It'll lead to a major shift in the personal relationships "diagram." Mary, for example, could admit in the season finale (near death, in danger, when sacrificing for somebody else, whatever) that Sherlock's deductions painted a far nobler picture of her doings than they really were. It'd be a good way to go, a sign of character development which is followed by her disappearance.

The difference between TRF and HLV is that they gave us a riddle at TRF. We had a starting point (and were shown all possible props), then we were given the solution. The question was "how." HLV is different. We don't get a riddle. Let's assume Magnussen's movements are meant to be a hint. I doubt they intended for us to notice it.

 

On another note:

 

I think it's pretty clear, though, that Magnussen did reach for the phone, and reached it:

When Sherlock says "Mary, whatever he's gone on you...", you can see Magnussen's body behind Sherlock in the mirror. Then the camera shows Mary. Then it's back to Sherlock. Now Magnussen cannot be seen in the mirror anymore, just his arm. He bend down enough to be out of view.

When Mary points her gun at Magnussen after shooting Sherlock, his head is back up, you see it in the mirror.

 

If he didn't call the ambulance, who did he call/text that it is important enough to show it? I am pretty sure it is important for season 4. Only other possibility (which I to be honest don't like as much as the other one) is that it's a secret business partner. Who then wants to take revenge on Sherlock. Thus the need to keep Sherlock in England. Otherwise, how'd he get revenge?

I've considered the fact that Magnussen recorded the conversation as evidence (blackmail material?) but it's not his style. And there were more pressing matters. Survival usually tops "the work." He could have called his guards but he must have known that Mary incapacitated them. How'd she get to him without doing so?

I don't know who else would help him if he called/texted them. I imagine he doesn't have many friends. I still believe ambulance makes more sense but well.

I don't entirely trust Moftiss to clear things up, as there as so many plot holes that are never sorted out. We've discussed lots of them here! (I think the most glaring is that Sherlock says he didn't know how far Jim would go, i.e. killing himself, but what would have happened if he did not die? How could he have survived Jim's demand that he kill himself, if Jim had been alive to watch him jump?)

 

On the other hand, they do plant little clues which show up later. For instance, we were meant to notice Sherlock's untypical behaviour in TRF, i.e. playing with a ball, because it was the explanation of why John could not feel a pulse on the "corpse." Moffatt did hint about unSherlock-like behaviour and the fans had worked out the trick with the ball ages before TEH. CAM and the phone is much more subtle, so it seems more likely that, if they are going to use it in S4, they mean to spring it on us as a surprise.

 

I would really like it if it did turn out that CAM made the call, partly because it would confirm my opinion that Mary meant Sherlock to die, and partly because it would be interestingly ironic if Sherlock killed the person who saved his life, to protect the person who tried to murder him.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I would really be surprised at Moffat and Gatiss and disappointed that would take Sherlock Holmes in that kind of direction. But even Benedict Cumberbatch was feeling a little uncomfortable about Series Three feeling that some fans might loose their trust in Sherlock.

[Pamela]

 

I would really be surprised at Moffat and Gatiss and disappointed that would take Sherlock Holmes in that kind of direction. But even Benedict Cumberbatch was feeling a little uncomfortable about Series Three feeling that some fans might loose their trust in Sherlock.

 

 

Really? When/where did he say that?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Right here.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/sherlock-series-3-secrets-revealed-2912561

 

                      

[Ruthyone]

I hope that Moftiss notice comments that Sherlock fans write and possibly take a sneaky peek at forums like this one and take note. There's a huge following and the stories and characters have got to thrill and amaze us. A big responsibility.