Remember that first official photo?

[sherlockandjohn]

What do you make of it? I encourage you to post your views in spoiler boxes for the sake of those who haven't seen the first two episodes of series 3.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

I just realised that we haven't seen this moment yet in the first two episodes, and I had originally expected it in The Empty Hearse. It must take place in His Last Vow, then. The look on John's face is sad and forlorn. Ominous? What do you think?

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

It never occurred to me that this was still to come, I'd written it off as not a screenshot but a mere promotional (and a questionable one at that). Well, we shall see!

 

[sherlockandjohn]

 

It never occurred to me that this was still to come, I'd written it off as not a screenshot but a mere promotional (and a questionable one at that). Well, we shall see!

 

 

I did the same, but it just hit me that I might have been wrong.

[Caya]

Well John's suspiciously clean-shaven ... oh dear. Good catch!

 

I moved this topic into Series 3, just to be on the safe side, btw.

[sherlockandjohn]

More speculation, and spoilers for both The Sign of Three and His Last Vow:

 

 

Mary dies in the original stories, so I've been told. In the trailer for HLV, it is clear that the people Sherlock loves are being threatened by Magnussen. John is, like I've said, looking very sad in the photo in question. If that photo is from HLV, I'm thinking something could very well happen to Mary or the baby. We have been promised a more tear-jerking episode than ever by the writers.

 

 

Perhaps the worst-cast scenario for me would be Mary dying, Sherlock unable to prevent it, and John grieving and angry. Would the writers put John through that grief again? I'm not convinced they won't. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle did.

[T.o.b.y]

Okay, this is in the series 3 thread now, right? So we could speculate wildly about His Last Vow without spoiler boxes? Hmm... better not. Putting that box there will make people think twice whether they really want to endure my blabber.

 

Okay:

 

 

The worst case scenario for me would be Magnussen using something Sherlock has done (as part of his work as a detective or otherwise) and twisting it to hurt and harm John and Mary, destroy their life and ruin their marriage, while making it look as if it was Sherlock's fault and intention. No, the real worst case scenario would be finding out Sherlock really is a heartless psychopath after all and does it himself, but that's so improbable I'd put it in the impossible category and delete it.

Yes, Doyle killed Mary (for all we know! We only read "my sad bereavement" and that Watson moved back to baker St, from which we can deduce that he has become a widower; it's never even explained whether this is correct and she's never mentioned again) but he didn't put Watson through any dramatic grieving "on stage". Therefore, I think Mrs Watson's death is not in any way a necessary element in a modern retelling of the stories and open to interpretation anyway, because we can't even be a hundred per cent sure that it took place! If they do kill Mary and show John at a grave yet again, I will conclude they have run out of ideas, stop watching and ignore anything after The Sign of Three. I just can't imagine how that would work from a storyteller's point of view. I also can't imagine we will find out Mary is "a baddie". We might be led believe so , but I'd have real trouble buying it, because in Doyle's world, she was so angelic it was almost sickening and the show has never made that radical a change.

 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Some Holmesian scholars speculated that Mary may not have died but it may have been a divorce that John did not want. In the trailer, at least what struck me is, John is looking rather shell shocked while Sherlock is looking down right determined and he says at the end "The game is on". So I am wondering if it is either Mary or John is being targeted by Charles Augustus and Sherlock hates him for it. Probably knowing something about him all ready.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

Okay, this is in the series 3 thread now, right? So we could speculate wildly about His Last Vow without spoiler boxes? Hmm... better not. Putting that box there will make people think twice whether they really want to endure my blabber.

 

Okay:

 

 

The worst case scenario for me would be Magnussen using something Sherlock has done (as part of his work as a detective or otherwise) and twisting it to hurt and harm John and Mary, destroy their life and ruin their marriage, while making it look as if it was Sherlock's fault and intention. No, the real worst case scenario would be finding out Sherlock really is a heartless psychopath after all and does it himself, but that's so improbable I'd put it in the impossible category and delete it.

Yes, Doyle killed Mary (for all we know! We only read "my sad bereavement" and that Watson moved back to baker St, from which we can deduce that he has become a widower; it's never even explained whether this is correct and she's never mentioned again) but he didn't put Watson through any dramatic grieving "on stage". Therefore, I think Mrs Watson's death is not in any way a necessary element in a modern retelling of the stories and open to interpretation anyway, because we can't even be a hundred per cent sure that it took place! If they do kill Mary and show John at a grave yet again, I will conclude they have run out of ideas, stop watching and ignore anything after The Sign of Three. I just can't imagine how that would work from a storyteller's point of view. I also can't imagine we will find out Mary is "a baddie". We might be led believe so , but I'd have real trouble buying it, because in Doyle's world, she was so angelic it was almost sickening and the show has never made that radical a change.

 

 

 

Oh dear... you did come up with a worse scenario. And, from the trailer, a somewhat likely one... Magnussen does mention a big mistake, Sherlock has made.

 

I like Mary a lot, and would hate to see John grieve over another loved one. However, I could understand the decision at some point to take her out of the series, once it seems they've done all they can with her character. After all, she's not a lead character, and I feel the writers could do something more with Sherlock's and John's friendship "beyond" Mary. Anyway, it would seem a sad choice to do so now, when she's only just been introduced.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I like Mary a lot, and would hate to see John grieve over another loved one. However, I could understand the decision at some point to take her out of the series, once it seems they've done all they can with her character. After all, she's not a lead character, and I feel the writers could do something more with Sherlock's and John's friendship "beyond" Mary. Anyway, it would seem a sad choice to do so now, when she's only just been introduced.

 

Beyond Mary? Whatever do you mean by that?   

 

Before series 2 aired, I had a lot of fun thinking out how I'd modernize all I then knew about Sherlock Holmes. My original idea concerning Mary was to have the Watsons married for a few years and then divorce them. It even appealed to me. Now that I've met "the real" Mary and feel like I've been a guest at their wedding, however, I would hate to see that wonderful couple come apart in any way. (Maybe the part of me I didn't even know I had before this episode hit it full force was the slumbering organ of hopeless romanticism...)

[bborchar]

My thoughts on this particular picture:

 

 

It's a dream sequence from HLV. I think Sherlock is injured and then is in sort of a 'delusional' state, and this is one of the things he sees. He's looking at John, but John doesn't see him or acknowledge him. John is also drinking coffee AND wine. Then we see Sherlock in his exact same seat, but without John there, staring out. So I'm opting for 'dream sequence'.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

I like Mary a lot, and would hate to see John grieve over another loved one. However, I could understand the decision at some point to take her out of the series, once it seems they've done all they can with her character. After all, she's not a lead character, and I feel the writers could do something more with Sherlock's and John's friendship "beyond" Mary. Anyway, it would seem a sad choice to do so now, when she's only just been introduced.

 

Beyond Mary? Whatever do you mean by that?   

 

Before series 2 aired, I had a lot of fun thinking out how I'd modernize all I then knew about Sherlock Holmes. My original idea concerning Mary was to have the Watsons married for a few years and then divorce them. It even appealed to me. Now that I've met "the real" Mary and feel like I've been a guest at their wedding, however, I would hate to see that wonderful couple come apart in any way. (Maybe the part of me I didn't even know I had before this episode hit it full force was the slumbering organ of hopeless romanticism...)

 

 

Uh... now that  I've re-read my own writing, I can understand how that sounded.

 

Well, I think the stakes have definitely been raised, in any case, and His Last Vow will be a heart-breaker. I'm not ruling out any of the scenarios we discussed - well, apart from the 'finding out that Sherlock really is a heartless psychopath'. I'd file that under 'impossible' too 

[sherlockandjohn]

My thoughts on this particular picture:

 

 

It's a dream sequence from HLV. I think Sherlock is injured and then is in sort of a 'delusional' state, and this is one of the things he sees. He's looking at John, but John doesn't see him or acknowledge him. John is also drinking coffee AND wine. Then we see Sherlock in his exact same seat, but without John there, staring out. So I'm opting for 'dream sequence'.

 

 

Another interesting idea!

[Pamela]

So, did anyone ever see it?  I didn't.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Nope, me neither.  I emailed Sherlockology a few days ago to see if they know whether it's supposedly from one of the episodes, but have not heard back from them yet.  Will let y'all know if I hear anything.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Oops -- spoke too soon.  I did hear from Sherlockology just now:  "The shot is just a publicity shot and doesn't appear in the series."

 

So we didn't just blink at the wrong time, it wasn't there.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Well that's good to know. Thank you, Carol and Sherlockology.

[Pamela]

Yes, indeed! Thanks!