But if Mary isn't really 'Mary Morstan'...

[Arcadia]

 

 

We know he survived.  it is enough.

 

Indeed.  He fell.  He didn't hit the ground.  He lived.  Everything else is just detail.

 

 

Almost sounds like Sherlock's quote from the pilot:

 

"The brain's what counts.  Everything else is transport."

 

It reminds me more of "A Few Good Men." (And I paraphrase.....)

 

"Anyone could be Markinson."

"Are you Markinson?"

"No...."

"I'm not Markinson. That rules out two of us."

[BlackButterfly]

It isn't odd that Mary remembered the room but the skip code.

Why would she take it to SH unless Magnussen had told her to, that seemed a obvious answer after HLV to me? Magnussen sent it as part of his complex plan for SH to watch him dance/chase after John. It wasn't aimed at Mary and at that time Mary ( poppet ) was doing what Magnussen said.

Did Magnussen randomly hope ( after arranging Johns kidnapping and placing in the bonfire and filming it all and organising safety stand by guys and a timed lighting of the fire and knowing full well Mary was more than capable of finding John and had already cracked the code and knew the place...that Mary would waste time and run to Sherock?

 

Or did he just tell her take this message to SH and John will be fine and I won't tell?

Don't blackmailers also test the blackmailed first...with small amounts..and then move onto the big amounts ..and isn't that why Mary escalated to murdering Magnussen in HLV.

[Arcadia]

It isn't odd that Mary remembered the room but the skip code.

Why would she take it to SH unless Magnussen had told her to, that seemed a obvious answer after HLV to me? Magnussen sent it as part of his complex plan for SH to watch him dance/chase after John. It wasn't aimed at Mary and at that time Mary ( poppet ) was doing what Magnussen said.

Did Magnussen randomly hope ( after arranging Johns kidnapping and placing in the bonfire and filming it all and organising safety stand by guys and a timed lighting of the fire and knowing full well Mary was more than capable of finding John and had already cracked the code and knew the place...that Mary would waste time and run to Sherock?

 

Or did he just tell her take this message to SH and John will be fine and I won't tell?

Don't blackmailers also test the blackmailed first...with small amounts..and then move onto the big amounts ..and isn't that why Mary escalated to murdering Magnussen in HLV.

I did think it was odd that she immediately went to Sherlock, even before I knew she was an assassin. And your theory makes sense. If it's right, though, why wouldn't the audience find out at some point? Yet another plot point that got edited out of HLV?

[T.o.b.y]

 

It isn't odd that Mary remembered the room but the skip code.

Why would she take it to SH unless Magnussen had told her to, that seemed a obvious answer after HLV to me? Magnussen sent it as part of his complex plan for SH to watch him dance/chase after John. It wasn't aimed at Mary and at that time Mary ( poppet ) was doing what Magnussen said.

Did Magnussen randomly hope ( after arranging Johns kidnapping and placing in the bonfire and filming it all and organising safety stand by guys and a timed lighting of the fire and knowing full well Mary was more than capable of finding John and had already cracked the code and knew the place...that Mary would waste time and run to Sherock?

 

Or did he just tell her take this message to SH and John will be fine and I won't tell?

Don't blackmailers also test the blackmailed first...with small amounts..and then move onto the big amounts ..and isn't that why Mary escalated to murdering Magnussen in HLV.

I did think it was odd that she immediately went to Sherlock, even before I knew she was an assassin. And your theory makes sense. If it's right, though, why wouldn't the audience find out at some point? Yet another plot point that got edited out of HLV?

 

 

I think if Mary had gone to rescue John on her own, she would have run too much risk of blowing her cover. Also, she may have decoded the message herself, but that doesn't mean she understood all of it, including the bit about the location.

[Arcadia]

I know I didn't. :p

[T.o.b.y]

I think if Mary had gone to rescue John on her own, she would have run too much risk of blowing her cover.

 

Wow, I just realized what I said there: I accused Mary of putting John's life in danger just to maintain her facade!

 

No, that can't be right. "Nothing in this world I would not do to stop that from happening". Although... "that" was not John's death, was it. It was the loss of John's affection.

 

Jesus. What kind of a woman do I think Mary is?

 

I have no idea. She's not evil in my mind, that's all I can say. But I do wonder how much real feeling she has. With Sherlock, after 3 seasons, I think I know. It's hard to tell what is real and what is fake with him and you can't ever be sure, but I am certain that there's a lot of genuine emotion, of real true love and fear and concern somewhere inside him. But Mary? No clue. She's a bit scary, is Mrs Watson. I think she might be the kind of "sociopath" Sherlock thinks he is himself, or would like to be. She's certainly less sentimental than him.

 

(Yes, I think Sherlock is sentimental. Sorry Sherlock. But going for a drink in every street where you found a corpse? That's sentimental. It really is.)

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think if Mary had gone to rescue John on her own, she would have run too much risk of blowing her cover.

 

Wow, I just realized what I said there: I accused Mary of putting John's life in danger just to maintain her facade!

 

No, that can't be right. "Nothing in this world I would not do to stop that from happening". Although... "that" was not John's death, was it. It was the loss of John's affection.

 

Jesus. What kind of a woman do I think Mary is?

Maybe I can put your mind at rest with this thought: If Mary had blown her cover, that would have put John's life in serious and constant danger (I doubt that anyone who came after her would be too careful about sparing him).  So if she can enlist Sherlock's help, thereby preserving her cover, she can save John from the immediate danger without putting either of them at further risk.

 

I do think she may be less sentimental than Sherlock, though, at least in some ways.  She's certainly pragmatic!

 

[Zain]

We know he fell.  We know something broke his fall.  Beyond that...

 

Well, definitely the Tardis, if you ask me...

 

I know a lot of you basically ate the books and are oozing with knowledge when it comes to the "canon." Is there any character with the initials A.G. or a variation of sorts in the stories? After a break of S3's infuriating mess, I've noticed that the conspiration theories are cropping up. I particularly like the idea of R.A. actually being the initials of Ronald Adair, who was killed by Moran. It makes sense that someone would write on a closed USB connector instead of an open one. But I can't find any good theory on the A.G. part. Maybe those are her initials?

[sfmpco]

 

We know he fell.  We know something broke his fall.  Beyond that...

 

Well, definitely the Tardis, if you ask me...

 

I know a lot of you basically ate the books and are oozing with knowledge when it comes to the "canon." Is there any character with the initials A.G. or a variation of sorts in the stories? After a break of S3's infuriating mess, I've noticed that the conspiration theories are cropping up. I particularly like the idea of R.A. actually being the initials of Ronald Adair, who was killed by Moran. It makes sense that someone would write on a closed USB connector instead of an open one. But I can't find any good theory on the A.G. part. Maybe those are her initials?

 

 

Well, I haven't read any of the books but I do know that AGRA is in one of the original stories but not as anything so mysterious.  I think it's the name of a town in Turkey.  Is that right all you Sherlockians?

[joanneta1]

Well, here it becomes a acronym, like HOUND in Series 2, but it is actually the location where the original Johnathan Small and his three friends managed to get half the Maharaja's treasure during the Great Mutiny, and this treasure later sparked off the entire launch boat chase down the Thames in the Sign of The Four. As for Mary, in this case, if she is actually not British, as he implies in the last episode of S3, she might not have figured out the location. Just a thought.

[Zain]

 

 

 

Well, I haven't read any of the books but I do know that AGRA is in one of the original stories but not as anything so mysterious.  I think it's the name of a town in Turkey.  Is that right all you Sherlockians?

 

 

Well, it is a canon reference, the treasure of Agra, if I am not mistaken. And it was empty. Which has started a lot of the "Mary is Agra, therefore she is empty = not pregnant" debates. But I was thinking of the more recent theory that it might be a red herring and actually another reference to her being Moran, as Moran killed Adair.

So you are spot-on.

[T.o.b.y]

I would be very surprised if anybody on the Sherlock writing team thought through what they think A.G.R.A. is actually supposed to stand for before they put it in the episode.

 

The Agra treasure was originally Mary Morstan's inheritance from her father. Agra was supposed to be a city (I don't know whether it really exists or existed). The treasure chest turned out to be empty, however, so Miss Morstan remained poor and Dr Watson felt he could propose to her after all. (When he thought she was about to become a rich heiress, he had scruples about asking her to marry him because he wouldn't be in her league, so to speak. That kind of thing seems to have been terribly important back in Doyle's day.)

 

Now Mary's "inheritance" from her old life is a memory stick with those letters on it, and John burned it to be able to stay with her. There the analogy ends, I'd say.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I would be very surprised if anybody on the Sherlock writing team thought through what they think A.G.R.A. is actually supposed to stand for before they put it in the episode.

I suspect you're right. (Though they do joke that it stands for Amanda [something] [something] Abbington.)

 

The Agra treasure was originally Mary Morstan's inheritance from her father. Agra was supposed to be a city (I don't know whether it really exists or existed).

It's a real city in India (most famous as the site of the Taj Mahal).

[SherlockedCAMPer]

and it is a most interesting city as well (if you want to find it on a map, find Delhi/New Delhi on a map and go SE or find Lucknow and go WNW as it's in between the 2) complete with ruins of the start of a black version of the Taj Mahal and the Red Fort (was there a little over 15 years ago and spent 3.5 weeks in that country)

[Arcadia]

Now Mary's "inheritance" from her old life is a memory stick with those letters on it, and John burned it to be able to stay with her. There the analogy ends, I'd say.

That's brilliant, that's the kind of connection I always miss!

[joanneta1]

I keep trying to figure out why anyone would think it odd that Mary would recognize a skip code or remember a room number. I knew about skip codes (though I couldn't have told you what they were called), and I assure you I've never been any sort of undercover agent or hired assassin. Mary had been so involved in the wedding plans and John had made such a fuss over Major Sholto's invitation that it's no huge surprise she would have made special note of his room number -- perhaps making sure that he was assigned a particularly nice room.

 

Sherlock seems to think that she could do those things because of her training and experience, but maybe she became an agent in the first place in part because she was just naturally good at such things. And I'm sure that a lot of people with similar natural talents never become secret agents.

Don't blame me about her abilities, it was Mr Moffat himself who stressed it on the DVD extras, and I second those who think you could have been a secret agent!

[joanneta1]

and it is a most interesting city as well (if you want to find it on a map, find Delhi/New Delhi on a map and go SE or find Lucknow and go WNW as it's in between the 2) complete with ruins of the start of a black version of the Taj Mahal and the Red Fort (was there a little over 15 years ago and spent 3.5 weeks in that country)

 

Totally agree with you! Anyway, the eponymous Four acquired half the Maharaja's treasure in precious stones during the Great Indian Mutiny, but because they were captured and imprisoned couldn't lay their hands on it for nigh on thirty years, and then Ms Morstan started getting those particularly valuable pearls, one every birthday, so when Johnathan Small (John Thaw in the role is simply perfect, never mind the stunted photographer, although his delayed stabbing technique had modern Sherlock flummoxed for a while) threw the rest of it in the Thames, she still had some very expensive jewellery to bring to her marriage portion.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Carol the Dabbler
Repaired quote codes