The Language (and travel) Thread

[Carol the Dabbler]

I will admit that "aluminium" sounds funny to me.  But apparently the Americans you were talking with were not aware that it's a proper British word, and thought that you had somehow come up with a really bizarre way of mispronouncing "aluminum."

 

Alice, I notice that in the story you're posting, one character is described as having her hair in "bangs" -- I thought you folks said "fringe."  Please unpuzzle me. 

 

[Alice Holmes]

She probably did think I'd come up with something. That's why she was snickering. She wasn't deliberately making fun of me.

 

Fringe. Bangs. I say both. "Fringe" is definitely more common over here. I didn't really think about it when I wrote it in my story. I think "bangs" is more of an American word, but in all honesty I think it sounds better. "Fringe" makes me think of rugs and bad television.

[aely]

And bangs makes me think of fireworks - for hair, it's a very American term, but it is coming into more common usage.

[Alice Holmes]

I started looking it up when Carol asked me about it, and I found a Yahoo Answers question, obvioulsy posted by someone British: 'Is "bangs" some new word for fringe?'

 

Also, in my story, you'll notice my quotation mark usage is American. That, I did on purpose, as a lot of the forum (I think) is American, and for their reading comfort. I usually do that on the forum, not always. The 'bangs' thing, however, I didn't even notice.

[Carol the Dabbler]

You know, I don't generally notice other people's use of quotation marks.  It's usually pretty obvious what they mean, just from context.  (I follow the American conventions myself, of course, but I never have liked the way we're supposed to tuck the final punctuation mark inside the quote, regardless of where it actually belongs.)  So if it's easier for you to use British punctuation, by all means do that.

 

As for bangs vs. fringe, I think "fringe" is far more self-explanatory than "bangs," for anyone not familiar with it.  I had no problem at all the first time I encountered it (in the first Potter book) -- though I will admit that it still sounds a bit funny, due to the rug connection.

 

[Julia Mae]

Sorry to change the subject, but I've just remembered: When I lived in Baltimore,  people snickered at me when I said "aluminium", and so I started saying "aluminum" so they knew what I was saying. Now that I live here in the UK again, I have to keep checking myself or I'm going to say "aluminum"!

 

Actually, the subject is "language" so you brought us back to the thread topic! 

 

What most Americans don't know is that the British spell the word differently and simply pronounce it as spelled.  As do we for our spelling.  So we are all correct!  (Sorry you got snickered at.  I'm sure most found your accent charming.) 

 

[Julia Mae]

I need to ask about cursing.  It's sort of like the "arse" question.  Do the British ever just say "shite" the way Americans do, without the "e" on the end?  Tom Hardy does in Tinker, Tailor, I think, but it's not a very clear recording.

[aely]

The use of 'shite' might be a regional thing. We use it all the time in Liverpool, and I know they do in Glasgow, but I don't know about the rest of the country.

 

It's specifically used to describe something as not particularly good, or "utter shite" and can be heard in pubs after a football match when describing the state of play.

[aely]

I have a question for you - what names do you use for spectacles?

 

Obviously glasses is probably the most common, possibly along with specs, but I'm wondering what little colloquialisms there are for them.

 

In Liverpool the 2 most common are 'gigs' or 'bins' and I have absolutely no idea why!

[Julia Mae]

I have a question for you - what names do you use for spectacles?

 

Obviously glasses is probably the most common, possibly along with specs, but I'm wondering what little colloquialisms there are for them.

 

In Liverpool the 2 most common are 'gigs' or 'bins' and I have absolutely no idea why!

 

We mostly just say "glasses" though one of my non-Bristish characters uses "specs."  An old-fashioned term is "cheaters" for bifocals.  Sunglasses can be "shades." 

 

Sounds like folks in Liverpool are just more adept at creative communications than we dullard Americans. 

 

[aely]

Oh we use shades for sunglasses and all.

 

And another thing I've heard glasses called is windows.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Right, it's usually "glasses" or "eyeglasses" over here.  We sometimes say "specs" (and one of my nieces is nicknamed "Specs"), but we hardly ever say the full word "spectacles" in that sense.  People who wear glasses are sometimes called "four-eyes" (not nice).  I've heard "cheaters" but have never associated the word specifically with bifocals, just glasses in general.  And yes, "shades" for sunglasses.

 

I've been wearing glasses since I was 11, so if there were any other common expressions, you'd think I'd have heard them by now.  (Roget was no help either.)

 

[Liselle]

Another word we use is 'goggles'.
 

Can I just jump in here and say that my all-time favourite BE/AE differences are these?

BE Jam > AE Jelly
BE Jelly > AE Jell-O

I don't know why; there's just a nice circular feel to it I'm trying to remember how marmalade fits into this, but I can't...
 

[Julia Mae]

Another word we use is 'goggles'.

 

Can I just jump in here and say that my all-time favourite BE/AE differences are these?

 

BE Jam > AE Jelly

BE Jelly > AE Jell-O

I don't know why; there's just a nice circular feel to it I'm trying to remember how marmalade fits into this, but I can't...

 

 

Marmalade is marmalade on both sides of the water.  What I can't figure out is how it fits into anyone's diet.  bleh.

 

But - if  you call "jelly"  jam, what do you call jam?  Jelly here is the juice of the fruit without the pulp which naturally gels with pectin.  Jam is pureed, sweetened fruit, usually berries or peaches that gets a bit thick from cooking down.  Gelatins, like Jell-O, use animal products for thickening, and we don't put them on toast.  They'd melt.

 

So, you say "jelly" for flavored gelatin.  We use (much to the consternation of the Jell-O company) "jello."  (When it segues into a generic form, we use the other spelling.)

 

[Julia Mae]

Right, it's usually "glasses" or "eyeglasses" over here.  We sometimes say "specs" (and one of my nieces is nicknamed "Specs"), but we hardly ever say the full word "spectacles" in that sense.  People who wear glasses are sometimes called "four-eyes" (not nice).  I've heard "cheaters" but have never associated the word specifically with bifocals, just glasses in general.  And yes, "shades" for sunglasses.

 

I've been wearing glasses since I was 11, so if there were any other common expressions, you'd think I'd have heard them by now.  (Roget was no help either.)

 

See?  We're just unimaginative! 

[Julia Mae]

Dialogue question:

 

An American might say,

 

"He got two girls pregnant." 

 

My question is about the verb.  "Got" in BE?  It's a polite conversation so he won't use slang like "preggers."  But what's the verb here?  And what am I missing I don't know enough to ask? 

[Liselle]

Okay, I'm confused now...

 

 

 

But - if  you call "jelly"  jam, what do you call jam?  Jelly here is the juice of the fruit without the pulp which naturally gels with pectin.  Jam is pureed, sweetened fruit, usually berries or peaches that gets a bit thick from cooking down. 

 

If you look at this description http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_preserves#Jam, our jam is made 'with the juice and flesh of a fruit or vegetable'. So I would say that's what you're calling jelly. We don't seem to have an equivalent of your jam, in that case...

 

Gelatins, like Jell-O, use animal products for thickening, and we don't put them on toast. They'd melt

 

... but if you're saying you don't put your jelly on toast, then that's not an equivalent for our jam, because we do put it on toast. Hence my confusion. My face is literally like this smiley now:

 

 

An American might say,

 

"He got two girls pregnant."

 

My question is about the verb. "Got" in BE? It's a polite conversation so he won't use slang like "preggers." But what's the verb here? And what am I missing I don't know enough to ask?

 

 

'He got two girls pregnant' is definitely something we would say in BE. I'm fairly certain there's another polite way of saying it too; it just won't come to mind at the moment. And I know you aren't looking for slang equivalents, but if you were, 'he got two girls up the duff' would be a very common expression in BE.

[Julia Mae]

Okay, I'm confused now...

 

 

 

But - if  you call "jelly"  jam, what do you call jam?  Jelly here is the juice of the fruit without the pulp which naturally gels with pectin.  Jam is pureed, sweetened fruit, usually berries or peaches that gets a bit thick from cooking down. 

 

If you look at this description http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_preserves#Jam, our jam is made 'with the juice and flesh of a fruit or vegetable'. So I would say that's what you're calling jelly. We don't seem to have an equivalent of your jam, in that case...

 

Gelatins, like Jell-O, use animal products for thickening, and we don't put them on toast. They'd melt

 

... but if you're saying you don't put your jelly on toast, then that's not an equivalent for our jam, because we do put it on toast. Hence my confusion. My face is literally like this smiley now:

 

 

An American might say,

 

"He got two girls pregnant."

 

My question is about the verb. "Got" in BE? It's a polite conversation so he won't use slang like "preggers." But what's the verb here? And what am I missing I don't know enough to ask?

 

 

'He got two girls pregnant' is definitely something we would say in BE. I'm fairly certain there's another polite way of saying it too; it just won't come to mind at the moment. And I know you aren't looking for slang equivalents, but if you were, 'he got two girls up the duff' would be a very common expression in BE.

 

Okay.  Let's do jams and jellies.  This is from the wiki link you left:

Jam

Jam typically contains both the juice and flesh of a fruit or vegetable,^[12] although some cookbooks define it as a cooked and jelled puree.^[13]

In the US, the term "jam" refers to a product made of whole fruit cut into pieces or crushed then heated with water and sugar to activate its pectin before being put into containers:

"Jams are usually made from pulp and juice of one fruit, rather than a combination of several fruits. Berries and other small fruits are most frequently used, though larger fruits such as apricots, peaches, or plums cut into small pieces or crushed are also used for jams. Good jam has a soft even consistency without distinct pieces of fruit, a bright color, a good fruit flavor and a semi-jellied texture that is easy to spread but has no free liquid."

 

Here's how you make jam.  You take, say, strawberries.  You mush the whole berries up with sugar.  You bring it to a boil, cook it a bit and then put it is sterile jars.  It's thick, it has the whole fruit.  It's like paste, l kind of.  Only with a nice consistency.

 

Jelly: you take apples or maybe grapes, or n both!  You juice them ad add sugar.  It's juice, not pulpy part of the fruit.  You could drink it!  But instead, you add pectin (because there's not enough in the juice) and you cook it a bet and pout that in jars.  When it's cool, it's firm at room temperature.  When you put it on warm toast, it doesn't melt. 

 

Jello: Jello is made by using flavors and sugar and food colors and gelatin, which is extracted from animals, bones and hooves.  You have to cool it in the refrigerator to get it cold enough to jell.  (You can use clear gelatin for meat dishes and things and to make fish molds.)  You can't put Jello on anything warm because it would melt.

 

So, can you identify these things and which have you and what do you call them?  (And thanks for the verb.)

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

What we call jello (in American technical terms, a molded gelatin dessert) is called jelly in the UK -- I learned that by watching The Office. 

 

As I walked by the jelly/jam department in the supermarket tonight, I thought about this and wondered what the heck do they call our jelly, then?  Ah, I thought, I'll post that question on the forum -- but y'all beat me to it by a few hours!

 

OK, you British folks -- as Julia Mae says, American jelly is made from clear fruit juice (most often grape juice), while American jam is made from chopped, crushed, or pureed fruit (such as strawberries).  Both are sweetened and thickened so that they're a nice consistency to spread on toast.  I know from our trips to the UK that you have similar products over there.  But what do you call them?  Are both types called jam?  Or do you have only one type or the other?  Or what?

 

Or alternatively, would one of you please describe British jam?  In any case, I'm not asking for a dictionary definition, just your own description of what the words mean to you.

 

 

[Liselle]

Aha, I think I understand now

Your jam sounds pretty much the same as our jam. It looks like this: http://thefitnesstrend.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tumblr_lm8m0lZ0481qe3tkzo1_500.jpg

 

The closest equivalent I can think of for your jelly is fruit syrup. It's just the juice of the fruit, sweetened and thickened. We use it for fruit cocktails and for storing fruit pieces in, but we don't put it on toast.

 

And Carol's right, your jello is our jelly.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Thank you!  I guess that explains it, then:

 

we both have the same sort of jam,

 

we both have gelatin desserts except you call it jelly and we call it jello, and

 

you don't have what we call jelly (which is basically a clear jam).

 

That's a shame, really.  One of life's simple pleasures here is holding a glass jar of jelly up to the light -- almost like looking through a stained-glass window.  But then we don't have Marmite! 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

But then we don't have Marmite!

 

  Which is something I have always wondered about.

[aely]

we do have clear jam, and it is called jelly though the only example I can think of off the top of my head is bramble jelly as other fruits tend to be made into jam.

[Carol the Dabbler]

That would be blackberries and/or raspberries?  We tend to make jelly of those also, due to all the seeds.

 

It occurs to me that the reason grape jelly is such a tradition here may be that early settlers wanting to make jam from what they had available would naturally have thought of the abundant native grapes -- but those are so small and seedy with such thick skin that using a strained juice was the logical solution.  And if they were already familiar with making bramble jelly that way, it would have been a real no-brainer.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

How popular is marmite in England since it is yeasty, salty and a by-product of beer making? Or is that a fairly dim question?