The Language (and travel) Thread

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  No, I wasn't assuming that "Bread and Butter" pudding meant the same thing...it just reminded me of it.

[Liselle]

Ah, okay... what you call 'pudding' is not at all the same thing here.

'Pudding' here, when you're talking about a dish rather than just an alternative name for dessert, is usually any kind of sweet or savoury dish made with flour (incidentally, it can also be a sausage, i.e. black pudding or blood pudding, but let's not get into that ).

 

This might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudding

 

[Julia Mae]

Ah, okay... what you call 'pudding' is not at all the same thing here.

 

'Pudding' here, when you're talking about a dish rather than just an alternative name for dessert, is usually any kind of sweet or savoury dish made with flour (incidentally, it can also be a sausage, i.e. black pudding or blood pudding, but let's not get into that ).

 

This might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudding

 

That's a really nice link.

 

Okay: two script questions. - Wait.  Maybe three.

 

1 - Do you "shop for groceries"   ????

 

2 - So, back to pudding.  If it's ice cream would you say "We have ice cream for pudding?"  Or is it just this class of  sweet flour-based foods that get the designation?

 

3 - Is "ass" considered American and the go-to word for almost everyone is "arse?"  Benedict says "arse" in interviews.  What do you think he says in private, say between himself and Martin? 

 

(Of course,   Martin doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about polite in public, does anyone know what he says?)

 

Here's an edit I did from the original poster for the Sherlock pilot - just decorating the thread :

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm trying to pick up enough British to write decent dialog too, so can I play?

 

I think the answer to your #1 will be no, they "do the shopping."

 

And #3, if they use "ass" at all, it means donkey.

 

[Liselle]

Of course you can, Carol!

 

1.) Well, we'd be more likely to use the phrase 'do the shopping', but we do 'shop for groceries'. In fact, I work in a supermarket on the Home Delivery section, and when we're packing a customer's shopping into the crates for them, the bags go into the crates in a certain order, and that order is grocery, then frozen, then chilled. So 'groceries' refers to anything that doesn't go in the fridge or in the freezer.

 

2.) Yes, we would say we were having ice cream for pudding. But if 'pudding' is part of the name of the food you're about to eat, then it's most likely going to be sweet/savoury and made with flour.

 

3.) Carol's right; when you would say 'ass', we would say 'arse'. And 'ass' would be used to mean a donkey.

[Julia Mae]

Of course you can, Carol!

 

1.) Well, we'd be more likely to use the phrase 'do the shopping', but we do 'shop for groceries'. In fact, I work in a supermarket on the Home Delivery section, and when we're packing a customer's shopping into the crates for them, the bags go into the crates in a certain order, and that order is grocery, then frozen, then chilled. So 'groceries' refers to anything that doesn't go in the fridge or in the freezer.

 

2.) Yes, we would say we were having ice cream for pudding. But if 'pudding' is part of the name of the food you're about to eat, then it's most likely going to be sweet/savoury and made with flour.

 

3.) Carol's right; when you would say 'ass', we would say 'arse'. And 'ass' would be used to mean a donkey.

 

The nice thing about forums is: EVERYONE is invited to play!!

 

And good heavens, Liselle, why aren't you in bed?  But I'm glad to have your answer.  I changed all my asses into arses.  Wow, that sounded strange!  But I'll have to run a find to make sure I have them all. 

 

I'm changing it to "do the shopping."  Probably works better, anyway.

 

The script goes to a reader for critique tomorow, which is why I'm up.  I love how much more confident I feel.  Now, let's see if my American reader understands all my BE words.  

 

Liselle,  do the British make hot alcoholic drinks using tea?  I have a cold punch recipe, but is it common there to use some type of liquor with hot tea? 

 

Hope you don't mind cultural background to go along with the dialogue coaching!

 

[Liselle]

 

And good heavens, Liselle, why aren't you in bed? 

 

Hahaha Well I am; it's just I have to be awake because I'm going to work soon Plus I suffer with insomnia; I usually wake up at about 6am and only manage to get around 5 or 6 hours sleep.

 

The script goes to a reader for critique tomorow, which is why I'm up. I love how much more confident I feel. Now, let's see if my American reader understands all my BE words.

 

Ooooo, I hope things go well for you! Glad to know I could help you with it!

 

Liselle, do the British make hot alcoholic drinks using tea? I have a cold punch recipe, but is it common there to use some type of liquor with hot tea?

 

Alcoholic drinks with tea?!  I'm not entirely sure what sort of drinks you mean; do you mean adding alcohol to tea, or tea to alcohol? I can't really think of anything like that whatsoever here; we add Baileys to coffee and things like that, but I've never heard of anyone using tea.

 

Hope you don't mind cultural background to go along with the dialogue coaching!

 

Not at all! Honestly; if there's anything at all you need help with, let me know. I'm always happy to provide assistance!

[aely]

Unless it's a steak pudding, in which case you have it for a main... and you would then specify it was a steak pudding.

 

Not sure if steak puddings are a northern thing though, they might be.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Or Yorkshire pudding!

 

We do use "groceries" in the sense of stuff that's on the shelves rather than in freezers or coolers, but over here that's a technical term, mostly used by people in the grocery business.  When a random person says they're going to shop for groceries, they mean get whatever they want from the supermarket.  Liselle, when you defined "groceries," were you speaking as a British consumer or as a supermarket employee?  Would a typical consumer use the term at all?

 

When we say "go shopping" it could be for just about anything -- we could be going to the hardware store or the office-supply store or the big ol' discount store -- or the grocery store.  We don't too much say "do the shopping" except in a vague sort of way, like "who does the shopping in your family?"

 

And Julia Mae, I realize this is no help to you, but I used to know a very British-type Canadian gal who liked about a teaspoon of Scotch in her cup of tea.  I tried it a few times, and it really does improve the flavor!

 

Best of British luck with your script!

 

[aely]

Tea with alcohol? Not really the done thing unless it's for 'medicinal' purposes (though we do it plenty with coffee).

 

 

Liselle, I find it strange that you class yourself as suffering from insomnia when you say you only get 5 or 6 hours sleep as that's my normal! Then again, I have been a shift worker in the NHS for over 20 years - we don't have sleep patterns, we have times when we're lucky enough not to be awake!

[Julia Mae]

 

The script goes to a reader for critique tomorow, which is why I'm up. I love how much more confident I feel. Now, let's see if my American reader understands all my BE words.

 

Ooooo, I hope things go well for you! Glad to know I could help you with it!

 

 

Alcoholic drinks with tea?!  I'm not entirely sure what sort of drinks you mean; do you mean adding alcohol to tea, or tea to alcohol? I can't really think of anything like that whatsoever here; we add Baileys to coffee and things like that, but I've never heard of anyone using tea.

 

 

Thanks, Liselle, but this is a reader to tell me how much I screwed it up, so luck is getting good feedback like: "I got really bored here."  Or, "I thought he set that on fire in the first act?"  When I shop it around, I never talk about it.  Bad luck.

 

They do make cocktails with tea.  (Possibly only non-British barbarians would dare to do so.)  Often with rum.  I needed a hot comforting version, so I invented one.  But I thought it would be better if there was something common to British culture. 

 

Re: sleeping.  5-6 could be normal for you, but if you don't think so, remember that caffeine stays in your system for TEN HOURS after you consume it.  

 

[Liselle]

 

Liselle, when you defined "groceries," were you speaking as a British consumer or as a supermarket employee? Would a typical consumer use the term at all?

 

A bit of both We would use the term, but not as generally as 'shopping'. If we wanted to emphasise the fact that we were shopping for food and not clothes or whatever, we might say 'doing the grocery shopping' or 'shopping for groceries'.

 

Liselle, I find it strange that you class yourself as suffering from insomnia when you say you only get 5 or 6 hours sleep as that's my normal!

 

Ah, I mean if I have a good night, I get 5 or 6 hours of sleep. But maybe 3 or 4 nights out of the week, I might only get 3 or 4 hours sleep. It takes me ages to fall asleep anyway. I also get vivid dreams, which leave me feeling drained and tired all the time, which is even more annoying when I can't sleep

 

 

 

[Julia Mae]

And Julia Mae, I realize this is no help to you, but I used to know a very British-type Canadian gal who liked about a teaspoon of Scotch in her cup of tea.  I tried it a few times, and it really does improve the flavor!

 

Best of British luck with your script!

 

Oh, no, that is helpful.  It's not like I am going off to the liquor store and experimenting, that would get pricey.  I can see Scotch or Irish Whiskey in tea.  Or Baily's. 

 

Is British luck different from American luck?   I need all kinds.

[Caya]

Well if you need tea/alcohol recipies, as long as they needn't be British, Austria has lots of them. Many people kick off a day on the ski slopes with a Jagatee (hunter's tea, that's hot tea with pretty strong rum) or two. Can't attest to how it tastes, I'm afraid, as I don't drink alcohol, but it's certainly popular round here.

 

And have all the Austrian luck you can use, if you're collecting international luck .

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  I'm pretty sure luck is a Universal gift. Knows no borders of any kind.

[Julia Mae]

 

Ah, I mean if I have a good night, I get 5 or 6 hours of sleep. But maybe 3 or 4 nights out of the week, I might only get 3 or 4 hours sleep. It takes me ages to fall asleep anyway. I also get vivid dreams, which leave me feeling drained and tired all the time, which is even more annoying when I can't sleep

 

 

Uh-oh.  This sounds like my daughter and she only recently got herself some help.  Liselle, you could have sleep apnea and not know it.  She didn't until we lived together for awhile I I could hear her stop breathing.  Even after I told her and begged her to get tested, she ignored it until she started dating a man who INSISTED she get help.  It can be very dangerous.

 

I don't know if you have  a sleeping companion, but if not, maybe set up a recorder one night and see what you hear.  At least, tell a doctor.  Sleep studies are actually pretty simple.  And dreaming a lot of vivid dreams and waking up tired are classic signs.  I'm so very serious. This is bad thing. 

 

 

[Liselle]

Well, I have a huge phobia of doctors, so I tend to avoid them whenever possible. But I have just forced myself to register at my local surgery after having not been registered in years, and they've offered me a new patient health check, so if I take them up on it I'll mention the sleep thing. Thanks for the advice, Julia Mae

[Carol the Dabbler]

Is British luck different from American luck?   I need all kinds.

 

I've been wished this a few times by British folks, who assure me that it's much better than the regular kind.  (They made no comparison to American luck, however.)

 

Liselle, I second Julia Mae's advice about being tested for sleep apnea.  I have one friend who has it, and she says that she feels ever so much better, now that she's being treated.

[aely]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 'Best of British luck' thing comes from the British love of the underdog, British tenacity and our penchant for grabbing things with both hands given the opportunity. We still have our Empire mentality to a degree, I think it's buried in our psyche, kind of like the knowledge that a tiny country at one point had an empire that spanned the world is bone deep.

 

Or I could be talking through my arse and it has nothing to do with that whatsoever.

[Julia Mae]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 'Best of British luck' thing comes from the British love of the underdog, British tenacity and our penchant for grabbing things with both hands given the opportunity. We still have our Empire mentality to a degree, I think it's buried in our psyche, kind of like the knowledge that a tiny country at one point had an empire that spanned the world is bone deep.

 

Or I could be talking through my arse and it has nothing to do with that whatsoever.

 

Well, now we're all in triouble.  This link is to a thread on the phrase at wordreference.com.  I shouldn't post a link to this other forum, we could lose Liselle and Carol forever!!  But - http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2043097

 

Apparently, from this and other sites, it was shortened to "best of British to you..." which is just "good luck" essentially. 

 

I think your answer is probably quite relevant since they seem to associate it with WW2.  (But then, the British seem to associate most everything cultural with the WW1/WW2 as far as I can see!)  It seems that to wish someone Best of British Luck was to buoy them up when hope of victory was waning.  I think the history of world-wide empire probably would be the support for believing, in the darkest hour, that victory was still possible. 

 

It also seems to have fallen out of use with younger generations. 

 

Seems to have worked for me, though, as I found a big hole (opportunity) in this work and have been doing a massive re-write before even getting feedback.  I'm very excited about it if I can pull it off, it's rather complex to convey.  I feel quite lucky actually to have figured this out (bolt from the blue, sort of thing)  because it strengthens the middle which is always the weakest point in a script.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to bore y'all with this.  It's just unwind time, I suppose.

 

 Anyway, best of British  to ya!

[Alice Holmes]

Sorry to change the subject, but I've just remembered: When I lived in Baltimore,  people snickered at me when I said "aluminium", and so I started saying "aluminum" so they knew what I was saying. Now that I live here in the UK again, I have to keep checking myself or I'm going to say "aluminum"!

[Liselle]

Hahaha; I practically lived at Word Reference when I was at uni, Julia Mae! I love that place; it's so helpful to languages students

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I found a big hole (opportunity) in this work and have been doing a massive re-write before even getting feedback.  I'm very excited about it if I can pull it off, it's rather complex to convey.  I feel quite lucky actually to have figured this out (bolt from the blue, sort of thing)  because it strengthens the middle which is always the weakest point in a script.

 

Hurray for inspiration!  (And glad to know I'm not the only one with a weak middle.)

 

Sorry to change the subject, but I've just remembered: When I lived in Baltimore,  people snickered at me when I said "aluminium", and so I started saying "aluminum" so they knew what I was saying. Now that I live here in the UK again, I have to keep checking myself or I'm going to say "aluminum"!

 

Alice?  Almost didn't recognize you, with your new avatar!  It's odd, isn't it, that some words are almost the same in both countries, but not quite.  Somehow it's not as odd when they're completely different.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 It's amazing what a difference one little letter in a word will make.

[Alice Holmes]

It is! When that happened, I could not, for all the world, figure out what it was there were snickering about! I was a bit like, my hair? My face? What? They proceeded to ask me, "Your stove's made of what?" When I replied, "Aluminium," again, the girl replied, "Oh, do you mean aluminum?" Yes...I did...

 

And yes, my avatar. I felt that the other had had its heyday, and deserved to be retired.