Canon References In BBC Sherlock

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

Dear Carol, nothing interesting in that particular article, you knew it all beforehand, and so did I and those of us here who have actually bothered to read the original stories. The most extreme case where he commits negligent manslaughter is in the Speckled Band, and If Mr Moffat thinks Mr Holmes shot the original Milverton, what will he do with this one: make his Sherlock drive the snake to Dr Roylott's neck any other way? Truth to tell, Billy the page, was introduced in the Case-Book only because William Gillette had introduced the pageboy in the theatrical piece, and in the Special there were pictures of Archie dressed like a Victorian pageboy.

P.S. And the unreliable source of those 'canon' references entirely forgets to mention how the whole Norwood Builder deduction of writing while on a train and going over points was referenced by Mr Gatiss in TGG commentary!

 

I love The Speckled Band, because its a pretty quiet and improbable little set-up, and then when you think about it, you realize how BAMF Holmes really is.  Holmes is so good, he can facilitate your death by turning your own poisonous snake against you.  That's pretty awesome.  

 

That said, I'm not sure that I would want to see them try this in Sherlock.  Or at least not any time soon.  The shooting of CAM is far too fresh to just allow Sherlock to run around meting out justice as he sees fit, even if he's right.

 

 

How about having something like what happened in The Speckled Band, but it ends up being truly accidental?  Sherlock admits that he always misses something and this would be one of those times.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Question for those of you who know your Holmes:  Is "Uncle Rudy" borrowed from Conan Doyle?

 

The reason I ask is, in addition to Mycroft's reference to a cross-dressing Uncle Rudy in "Last Vow," sfmpco noticed yesterday that Laurie R. King's Holmes has an Uncle Rudy (in the current short story, "The Marriage of Mary Russell").  It would appear that either A] King borrowed Rudy from Moftiss (in apparent exchange for their borrowing her title "Monstrous Regiment of Women"); or B] they both borrowed him from canon (or at least, from elsewhere).

 

So -- is Uncle Rudy ACD canon?  Or more broadly, was he ever mentioned in a Holmesian context before "Last Vow"?

 

[sfmpco]

Still not even sure this thread is active enough for the question.

[Arcadia]

I get the feeling most of us look at all the New Content, whether it's been previously active or not. Clueing for looks, y'know. ;)

[sherlockpoirot]

@Carol

I've read most of the ACD Holmes stories multiple times and I do not recall any refernce to Uncle Rudy.

If he had been mentioned, I think I would remember.

The only relation of Holmes mentioned in the stories ,apart from Mycroft and Vernet,was someone called Verner. That was in the Norwood Builder.

[Inge l-w]

Nope! Nada, no cigar! No Uncle Rudy in all 56 stories and four novelettes for Mr Sherlock Holmes, Esq., as in his day, Mr Holmes would have been Mycroft, as the elder son.

[J.P.]

Who's nicked from whom could be answered by estimating the time when both pieces were written.

[Carol the Dabbler]

If the "borrowing" was between Moftiss and King (in some direction), then it was apparently borrowed from Moftiss by King, since her short story was just published this past week.  It is, of course, possible that both of them borrowed Rudy from some third Holmes adaptation, but I lean toward the theory that King borrowed him from Moftiss in exchange for their having already borrowed the title "A Monstrous Regiment of Women" from her.

[sfmpco]

If the "borrowing" was between Moftiss and King (in some direction), then it was apparently borrowed from Moftiss by King, since her short story was just published this past week.  It is, of course, possible that both of them borrowed Rudy from some third Holmes adaptation, but I lean toward the theory that King borrowed him from Moftiss in exchange for their having already borrowed the title "A Monstrous Regiment of Women" from her.

 

I agree.  I have also sent the question to Sherlockology for further investigation.

[Inge l-w]

Dear sfmpco, you are one of life's true optimists! I salute your perseverance! Do you expect an answer before or after S4 airs?

[Boton]

Question for those of you who know your Holmes:  Is "Uncle Rudy" borrowed from Conan Doyle?

 

So -- is Uncle Rudy ACD canon?  Or more broadly, was he ever mentioned in a Holmesian context before "Last Vow"?

 

Somehow, I think having a cross-dressing Uncle Rudy is a bit of Victorian social commentary that was a bit beyond our dear ACD, although wouldn't that have been fun!  

 

As a matter of fact, what a fan fic that would make.  Kind of a cross between ACD and Upstairs, Downstairs, we could follow the branch of the Holmes family that's part of the nobility and find out what really goes on at those country house parties!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Dear sfmpco, you are one of life's true optimists! I salute your perseverance! Do you expect an answer before or after S4 airs?

 

You may not be aware that Sherlockology is a fan website, not a branch of Hartswood or the BBC.  They have in fact answered most of my emails, and they seem to answer a good number of tweets as well.  Of course, they may not know the answer to this question, but (despite being a strictly fan organization) they do have a fairly close relationship with Hartswood, so they may well be able to get an answer, as least insofar as Hartswood knows what's what.

 

Somehow, I think having a cross-dressing Uncle Rudy is a bit of Victorian social commentary that was a bit beyond our dear ACD, although wouldn't that have been fun!

 

Oh, goodness, I certainly wouldn't expect Conan Doyle to have mentioned the cross-dressing!  In fact, he might not even have been aware of it, since Uncle Rudy (like most Victorians) was presumably quite circumspect.  If Conan Doyle had even heard of Uncle Rudy, of course.

[J.P.]

Victorian Uncle Rudy could have some other, more Victorian-compatible quirk. :D

[sfmpco]

I know that Sherlockology is a fan site, but they, being fans, also can be quite ACD literate.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I know that Sherlockology is a fan site, but they, being fans, also can be quite ACD literate.

 

Sorry, that's not what I meant ("it's a fan site" was in reply to Inge 's apparent assumption that they're a branch of Hartswood).  Yes, they can be quite knowledgeable, and if they're not sure, they will generally try to find out.

[J.P.]

Hmmm... I never got an answer from them... :(

[Inge l-w]

I never got a reply for the simple reason that I avoid Sherlockology, and when its icon pops up by mistake instead of the forum I exit with alacrity. Their reviews are biased, the content average and I know that they are not directly linked to Hartswood Productions.

As for "assume", I avoid that word like the plague: remember Silence of the Lambs and the advice given to Clarice Starling about using it, which is why I would like to knock the creators' heads together every time they use it in Sherlock, particularly when it is he who says it! Never assume anything!

[sfmpco]

Hmmm... I never got an answer from them... :(

 

I did, but it was over an earlier question, and their answer proved extremely helpful and rewarding.  

[jadpdr]

Oh, I have never tried asking them anything, but I know the scene from Silence of the Lambs: Never assume anything because you will be making an ass out of U and M(e). It was a very effective deterrent!

[sfmpco]

Regarding "Uncle Rudy," here is the answer from Sherlockology.  Please note that I do NOT agree with their assessment on "Monstrous Regiment" being a reference to the original John Knox quote.  It is more fitting a nod to Laurie R. King's book of that title and  even slightly (though not really) having a similar theme regarding the women.  I think King's reference to Uncle Rudy in "The Marriage of Mary Russell" is a nod back at Mofftiss.  What do we say about coincidence?  The universe is rarely so lazy.

 

Thank you for your email. This certainly is a puzzle!

 

We were not aware of ANY mention of an Uncle Rudy in ACD's canon or other pastiches, but just in case we were wrong, we spoke to our friend Roger Johnson who is the editor of The Sherlock Holmes Society of London's 'Sherlock Holmes Journal' and one of the leading Sherlock Holmes experts in the world. He too was at a loss as to where Mark and Steven might have sourced Rudy from, but it doesn't appear to be Sherlock Holmes related.

 

The only Rudolph associated with Sherlock Holmes we know of is that of Punch writer Rudolph Chambers Lehmann, who wrote, 'The Adventure of Picklock Holes'. Roger, however, thought this unlikely to be the inspiration when we suggested it as he is not widely known by his full name only first initials.

 

Laurie R. King would have to confirm herself, of course, but the inclusion of Uncle Rudy in her latest short story is either coincidence or indeed a nod to the BBC series, however, it is not in return for the 'Monstrous Regiment' connection in the Sherlock Special. Unfortunately, the mention of the "Monstrous Regiment" was not a reference to her 1995 Sherlock Holmes pastiche, or even Terry Pratchett's 2003 Discworld novel of the same name, but it was taken from a work by John Knox, published in 1558; 'The First Blast
of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regimen of Women'. His pamphlet was written against the female sovereigns of his day, particularly Mary Tudor and Mary, Queen of Scots which is where all three drew their inspiration from in using the term.

 

Sorry we could not be of more help. With Mark and Steven it could easily be a throw away comment or even an in joke, or on the other hand we might learn more about Uncle Rudy in series 4. Only time will tell...

 

- Sherlockology Team -

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree with you -- even if (and this isn't clear) Moftiss told Sherlockology that they got "Monstrous Regiment" directly from Knox, I sincerely doubt that that's truly the case.  Moftiss quoting John Knox?  Why would they do that?  They make a point of borrowing from other Holmes adaptations, not from 16th century anti-feminists.
 
Thanks for querying Sherlockology.  It's good to have at least the confirmation that Rudy is non-canon.
 

[Inge l-w]

Don't say we haven't been trumpeting the fact that it's NOT ACD canon above! As for Sherlocology, good on dear sfmpco. At least she got her answer, with ThAT Rudolph included in her Annotated Sherlock Holmes! You should read what the American Baker Street Irregulars had to say about Uncle Rudy about half a year ago; it was fun!

[Carol the Dabbler]

You should read what the American Baker Street Irregulars had to say about Uncle Rudy about half a year ago; it was fun!

 

Sounds interesting!  Could you post a link and/or a quote?

[Inge l-w]

Sorry, I cannot post links to anything, practically, but the quote of their last meeting, held late in 2015, was that Uncle Rudy was just a play on the behaviour of Sherlock Holmes towards humanity in general, namely rude. And the female members posited that the cross dressing quote was a wordplay on the current Sherlock Holmes flavour of the month, namely BC in drag. All of this before Zoolander 2, of course.

[Carol the Dabbler]

If you're limited by using one of the Mobile skins, you can still post a URL, and one of the Mods can turn it into a link.  Just go to that page, copy what's in the address bar, and paste into your post.  (This assumes that the page is not restricted to BSI members, in which case a quote or paraphrase would be the best you could do -- and have already done.)