Molly's gift for Sherlock

[Caya]

My husband is planning to wait for the dubbed version. So not only do I have to watch the new episodes on my own, I'll then have to refrain from mentioning any spoilers for, well, five months or so . The things I do for love .

[Liselle]

Oh my gosh, I hate having to keep spoilers from people; it's so hard! I'm currently in that situation with my friends; we all love Game of Thrones, but I'm the only one who's read all the books and knows exactly what happens, and it's so hard not to let something slip.

 

Wow; if I wasn't lucky, and the show wasn't in English, I couldn't wait another five months for the dubbed version. I could probably learn the basics of the language it was in by then!

[Carol the Dabbler]

My husband is planning to wait for the dubbed version. So not only do I have to watch the new episodes on my own, I'll then have to refrain from mentioning any spoilers for, well, five months or so . The things I do for love .

 

When do you expect to be able to see the new series yourself?

 

[Caya]

Oh my gosh, I hate having to keep spoilers from people; it's so hard! I'm currently in that situation with my friends; we all love Game of Thrones, but I'm the only one who's read all the books and knows exactly what happens, and it's so hard not to let something slip.

 

Wow; if I wasn't lucky, and the show wasn't in English, I couldn't wait another five months for the dubbed version. I could probably learn the basics of the language it was in by then!

 

Do I know that pain (Game of Thrones) - well at least the Red Wedding's been shown in the series now, that was the hardest to keep mum about.

 

Carol, I'm not sure - depending on whether or not I can get my hand on some streaming, either together with the Brits or as soon as the DVDs from amazon.co.uk have shipped (I'm certainly hoping for the former).

[Alice Holmes]

You guys never fail to amaze me.

 

I was reading through the first page of this thread and laughing the entire time.

 

And I think it was probably something really soppy, becuase that's Molly's personality (have you seen her blog? kittens everywhere), or something pertaining to one of his interests. Lab equipment or, I don't know, some sheet music of something. Sheet music could probably fit in that box. I'll look at it again. Those are my thoughts.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  As much as I love the idea of her giving him music, I'm not sure if she would be aware of his love of it. I mean she doesn't socialize with him outside of Bart's I wouldn't imagine. But they are both scientists, both are around dead people, a lot, so something scientific would make a whole lot of sense.

[Carol the Dabbler]

She was at the Christmas party, though.  Maybe that wasn't the first time she'd seen/heard him play the violin.  Or John might have mentioned that he plays it.  But even so, she probably wouldn't feel confident enough about his taste in music to get him anything along those lines.  And I think she'd know better than to get him anything with kittens on it.

 

I'm still happy with Julia Mae's field test kit idea.

 

[Julia Mae]

You guys never fail to amaze me.

 

I was reading through the first page of this thread and laughing the entire time.

 

And I think it was probably something really soppy, becuase that's Molly's personality (have you seen her blog? kittens everywhere), or something pertaining to one of his interests. Lab equipment or, I don't know, some sheet music of something. Sheet music could probably fit in that box. I'll look at it again. Those are my thoughts.

 

I think something music-related isn't out of the question, because during long hours in the lab, he'll be talking about all sorts of things and we know what his favorite topis is!  But not sheet music, it would have to be folded and one never, ever, folds their sheet music.  But she might go with some recordings of music he has mentioned he favors or maybe an iPod with dock so he can music with him. 

 

I think Baker Street Irregular already mentioned this idea on our most amusing first page.

[Liselle]

I kind of think it might have been soppy, because she is a very soppy person, like Alice said. But at the same time, I agree with Carol in that she's too intelligent to get something too soppy for someone like Sherlock. She knows he wouldn't appreciate it, and I think she'd want whatever it was to mean something to him. She'd be trying to get his approval.

 

[Julia Mae]

I kind of think it might have been soppy, because she is a very soppy person, like Alice said. But at the same time, I agree with Carol in that she's too intelligent to get something too soppy for someone like Sherlock. She knows he wouldn't appreciate it, and I think she'd want whatever it was to mean something to him. She'd be trying to get his approval.

 

My problem with this approach is it doesn't take into account that she loves him.  Not has a crush on him or whatever, but actually loves him.  When you love someone, as in an active verb that is about what you do rather than what you feel, what you want is to please the person.  Giving a gift to get his approval is a selfish act.  I never see her as a selfish person.  If she is going to be soppy, it's going to be in the card, perhaps, which did include a few Xes as I recall, but the choice of gift should be all about Sherlock, himself.  

 

What would you give Sherlock?   

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  I think I would try to get him something pertaining to his researches. That seems what he likes the most and perks him up.

[Liselle]

Maybe I didn't express what I meant clearly enough; by 'getting his approval', I didn't mean it in a selfish way. I just meant that she'd want him to like what she got him, because it's important to her that he's happy.

[Julia Mae]

Maybe I didn't express what I meant clearly enough; by 'getting his approval', I didn't mean it in a selfish way. I just meant that she'd want him to like what she got him, because it's important to her that he's happy.

 

Oh, I see!  Yes, absolutely.  I can't think of one single soppy thing that would get his approval, though.  Have we ever seen him be sentimental over anything?  (I was just reading an old interview where it's mentioned that JJ Abrams thought he was perfect for Khan from watching Sherlock and the audition was a "formality."  Then I thought, Well, hell, even KHAN is more soppy than Sherlock!)

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

   We kind of did see Sherlock get "soppy" if one wants to read his reaction to Irene Adler's supposed death that way.

 

  He got depressed, wrote sad music, wouldn't eat.  And asked to keep her phone.  Yes, he did know by then that she was alive. He had rescued her, but in the taxi when he and John were off to their first case together, he said that if Harry had cared for Clare, he would have kept the phone. People do, sentiment.  And what was the one thing he asks of John when John shows him the case file and phone Mycroft gave him? The phone.

 

And then there is that kind of dream state he's in when he returns to Baker Street after learning she's alive at the power station.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... in the taxi when he and John were off to their first case together, he said that if Harry had cared for Clare, he would have kept the phone. People do, sentiment.  And what was the one thing he asks of John when John shows him the case file and phone Mycroft gave him? The phone.

 

Interesting.

 

Then again, maybe it's just a trophy.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Then again, maybe it's just a trophy.

Anything is possible, especially with Sherlock Holmes, but he does flip through the e-mails to where she typed "Good-bye Mr. Holmes. And when he puts the phone in the draw, he opens it again and puts his hand on it  and then twice he says "The Woman" each time softer then the other.

[Carol the Dabbler]

True.

 

[Julia Mae]

   We kind of did see Sherlock get "soppy" if one wants to read his reaction to Irene Adler's supposed death that way.

 

 

I'm going to "Devil's Advocate" this, because I read these so differently.

 

He got depressed, wrote sad music, wouldn't eat. 

 

I don't think he's depressed.  As John said, "He does all that, anyway."  I think he's thinking, he said in S1E1 he plays the violin because it helps him think.  See, Sherlock knows she's not dead, IMO.  He saw a nude corpse.  He figured out her measurements from seeing her nude alive.  He had to know the body wasn't hers.  But he's Sherlock, lightning-fast thinker.  He covered for her, she trusted him with her phone and her secret, he backed her up. 

 

So what's he thinking about?  How to get into her phone.  When John approaches him before he leaves the flat, Sherlock asks about the number being stuck on his blog and tries it on the phone. 

 

 

And asked to keep her phone. 

 

If Mycroft and Sherlock set that up to convince whoever is surveilling the flat Adler is in witness protection and John that she is dead, Sherlock asks for the phone because John was about to go back a on what he initially told Sherlock, and say that she was killed.  (Another of those brilliant Martin Freeman subtle moments of extraordinary acting.)   Sherlock forestalls him by asking for the phone and saying "please." 

 

And then there is that kind of dream state he's in when he returns to Baker Street after learning she's alive at the power station.

 

And when do we see him in those states?  When is he oblivious to reality, to John leaving and hours passing?  When he is most engaged in thinking.  I mean, she was dead a week, now she's back.  What game is she playing?  Why did she give him the phone? Why does she want it back?  When we see him walking in the close-up, he isn't unfocused, his eyes are doing that moving thing they do when he is thinking, calculating.

 

As to him saying "The woman, the woman" at the end.   It's been my theory that they got Adler to work for the government, that she and Sherlock had an adventure together and that he really likes her.  Kind of like he likes John.  He hasn't before found a woman to respect in that way, she's pretty special. 

 

And that is sentiment, I think.  Which is sort of me arguing but then agreeing with you.  But I don't think, veering somewhere vaguely related to the topic, that we can make a gift from it.  So, Sherlock has his softer side.

 

You know what?  If Molly knew how he felt but wouldn't admit about being alone on Christmas, then the best present would be to be with him on Christmas while making him feel like he would just have to tolerate her for the day because she needed it, not him.  But she went the wrong way, didn't she?

[Alice Holmes]

Every human being has a softer side. It's inevitable. There's no such thing as a purely mechanical or purely logical person. They don't exist. Sherlock Holmes does his best at being purely logical, which happens to be a damn good job. But he can't be perfect at it. He is actually a human being.

[Julia Mae]

Every human being has a softer side. It's inevitable. There's no such thing as a purely mechanical or purely logical person. They don't exist.

 

In the area of normal folks, I think this is true.  There are actual psychopaths (not Sherlock,of course) who entirely lack the ability to empathize, have no sense of guilt, cannot experience compassion or love.   They have no softer side.

 

But we see Sherlock have compassion in the very first episode, I think, when he pushes John in certain ways and gets him to abandon his cane, and when John realizes he is free of it, Sherlock is very pleased, indeed, for his new friend.  That was a really fine bit of writing, I thought, as well as acting on both their parts.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

  We see it in The Great Game at the pool side with John, his interactions with Mrs. Hudson, and in TRF with Molly and especially on the rooftop just before he jumps.

[Alice Holmes]

I understand that there are true psychopaths, but is that to say that they have never, at any point in their lives, felt compassion or love for anything? I think not.

[Julia Mae]

I understand that there are true psychopaths, but is that to say that they have never, at any point in their lives, felt compassion or love for anything? I think not.

 

Alice, I absolutely promise you that is exactly what "psychopath" means.  A human being incapable of experiencing compassion or feeling what we would call love.  No mercy, no guilt. 

 

And that's how we all knew, no matter what anyone else or he, himself, said, that Sherlock Holmes wasn't a psychopath or sociopath.  Because we saw him express these traits.

 

This is from the Hare Psychopathy Checklist:

 

 

Factor 1: Interpersonal/Affective"

• Glibness/superficial charm
• Grandiose sense of self-worth
• Pathological lying
• Cunning/manipulative]
• Lack of remorse or guilt
• Shallow affect/Egocentric
• Callousness; lack of empathy
• Failure to accept responsibility for his or her own actions

   

Recent research suggests neurological abnormalities as a cause of the trait:

 

Neuroimaging studies have found structural and functional differences between those scoring high and low on the PCL-R with a 2011 review by Skeem et al. stating that they are "most notably in the amygdala, hippocampus] and parahippocampal gyri, anterior and posterior cingulate cortex, striatum insula, and frontal and temporal cortex".

 

A 2008 review by Weber et al. stated that psychopathy is associated with brain abnormalities in a prefrontal temporo limbic regions that are involved in emotional and learning processes, among others. The amygdala and frontal areas has been suggested as particularly important.  People scoring ≥25 in the Psychopathy Checklist Revised, with an associated history of violent behavior, appear to have significantly reduced microstructural integrity in their uncinate fasciculus white matter connecting the amygdala and orbitofrontal cortex. The more extreme the psychopathy, the greater the abnormality. Psychopathic personality traits, called "acquired sociopathy" can develop due to lesions on the orbitofrontal cortex.

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

One of the things I think people fail to notice about Molly is how much like Sherlock she is.  Detached from personal involvement with the cadaver or the case.  She was just fine describing the body in S1E1 as a nice guy she knew who worked there and also just fine with Sherlock beating the heck out of that body with a riding crop.  In another scene in another episode, during TGG, I think, she is all perky coming into the lab finding Sherlock has gotten his results, no concern for the victims like the kind John was showing.

 

She is a little like him, isn't she? I think in some interview Moffat or Gatiss said, when asked if she and Sherlock would become a couple: "Two sociopaths together? Doesn't sound like a good idea".

 

I feel for Molly. She's a bit like me or I'm a bit like her or whatever. I love her small voiced "okay" when Sherlock has said or done something outrageously insulting. But I definitely do not want to see her and Sherlock as a couple. Sherlock should never, ever have a girlfriend or any kind of permanent romantic attachment, that would be completely out of character. And dear Molly, I know you are fictitious and can't hear me, but please get over him. You deserve so much better. He'll always be your friend and you do count and that is the best you can get from Sherlock Holmes.

 

P.S.: Not for one second do I believe she put a mankini in that present. They were just making a joke. And a pretty stupid one, too.

[Pawse]

What was in the box..?!