Episode 3.1, "The Empty Hearse"

[miltk]

this episode took too much of a comedic turn. even the bomb train ended with sherlock having a laugh.

 

i do have a question...why was it so hard for watson to come to grips with him being left out of the loop? none of the three who were targets of the assasins were in on it. did he not understand that sh couldn't tell him.

 

btw, sorry if this has been asked before. the series is just starting in the states 

 

i like this whole unrequited love thing with molly. that's the best kind of love if you ask me. but some have said she should move on because sh treated her poorly. well,,,not so in "scandal" and this episode.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

John wouldn't have known about the assassins until Sherlock just told him. And John was upset because he was supposed to be Sherlock's closest friend and the trust between them had been so strong. Of course it would hurt that Sherlock would keep him in the dark and instead tell Molly Hooper and 25 "street bums" as John called them. Very close to canon, as Holmes didn't tell Watson either. As long as John Watson remained in mourning, the world would believe that Sherlock Holmes was dead, and this helped protect Sherlock and probably, John, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson.

 

 I must say, that 90 minutes went by fast. Yes, there humor, but there was also a lot of uncertainty and angst. Sherlock realizing how much of a mistake it had been to pull that kind of reveal on John and trying so very hard to get John to forgive him. Not in good places, but that's Sherlock all over.

 

  I'm glad they did some commentary at the end. It seems they will be doing it for all three episodes since they are giving them a two hour time slot.

[T.o.b.y]

i do have a question...why was it so hard for watson to come to grips with him being left out of the loop? none of the three who were targets of the assasins were in on it. did he not understand that sh couldn't tell him.

 

Strictly speaking, I am of course not qualified to answer this one, because neither am I John Watson nor the people who define who he is and what he thinks. But I'll try anyway, because it has always seemed so intuitively clear and natural to me.

 

No matter what the correct answer is to the (probably endless) ongoing debate on what exactly the nature of their relationship was and is, Sherlock and John were very close. John wasn't Sherlock's landlady or his associate at the police force, he was his best friend, his colleague, his flatmate and his blogger. He'd saved his life and sacrificed promising relationships with nice women to protect him from himself and his drug habit (okay, he was pressured by Mycroft to do that, but still). I think it is totally logical that he would have felt entitled to at least a hint that Sherlock was alive. As he says himself, one word would have been enough. What makes it even worse is that John, at that time in his life, before he met Mary, didn't really have anybody else. He was, as he himself said, "so alone". And Sherlock knew (or should have known) that full well.

 

I do understand Sherlock's reasons for keeping silent (I think) - they are basically those of the original Mr Holmes and they make sense. At first he needed John as a witness to make the story of his death known and believed. Okay. After the news had been spread, he still didn't get in touch because he knew John is not the most convincing liar and might "let the cat out of the bag", thus compromising Sherlock's safety and the success of his current work. I think if this had been explained nicely to John, he might have accepted it - if Sherlock had not confided in Mycroft, Molly and "a hundred tramps". Which does look as if he trusted them more to keep their mouths shut than his best friend, who really had not exactly proven himself untrustworthy in the past.

 

No wonder John was livid.

 

John's side of the question is quite easy to understand, I think. Now, Sherlock is another matter. All I can offer there is wild speculation:

 

First of all, I think Sherlock never fully understood how important he was to John. He got the fact that John was (is) attracted to danger and addicted to adrenaline and that he admired Sherlock's extraordinary gifts of mind, but I don't think he quite grasped that he was fond of him as a person. I don't believe he ever even considered that.

 

So when Mycroft came up with this plan to use John and his blog to convince the world of Sherlock's death in order to allow him to disappear and take down Moriarty's organization, I don't think Sherlock had a lot of scruples in accepting it. He didn't have any arguments against it that were rational in the sense of his brother and himself. But I got the impression in The Reichenbach Fall that while he might not have allowed himself to acknowledge it, he must have felt intuitively that it wasn't a very nice thing to do (to put it mildly). Then when he actually heard and saw John react to his supposed suicide (on the phone, when he tried to get through to the "body" and later in the graveyard), I think it kind of hit him in the face that he had really done him some damage. But he couldn't undo it, so he disappeared and went through with the plan.

 

Personally, I think no matter how well he might have convinced himself later that it wasn't a big deal and John would get over it fast enough ("sentiment" not being a factor to be much considered in his mind), deep down inside he always knew the truth and that was the real reason why he never wrote and also why he was uncomfortable when he came back and tried to steer the whole reunion towards one big joke.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Personally, I think no matter how well he might have convinced himself later that it wasn't a big deal and John would get over it fast enough ("sentiment" not being a factor to be much considered in his mind), deep down inside he always knew the truth and that was the real reason why he never wrote and also why he was uncomfortable when he came back and tried to steer the whole reunion towards one big joke.

 

We've been discussing (on another thread) whether John may be a bit like Sherlock in certain ways (though not nearly as extreme, of course).  I see a parallel (possibly intentional) between Sherlock's reluctance to contact John and John's reluctance to contact Mrs. Hudson.  John acknowledged that discomfort became his main reason as time went on, and I suspect you're right, that it was also a major factor in Sherlock's case.

 

[SolitaryCyclist]

Watched "The Empty Hearse" last night on Masterpiece, only one viewing.  As wonderful as it was to see Sherlock, John, Molly, Mrs. Hudson and all the rest, I was dissatisfied with the episode.  Maybe it was too disjointed, and maybe I wanted to really know how Sherlock survived the fall, and maybe a better handling of Sherlock's reveal to John.   Whatever, I felt it was not a complete episode.  Hoping that the remaining two episodes make Empty Hearse a bit more harmonious.

[miltk]

 

i do have a question...why was it so hard for watson to come to grips with him being left out of the loop? none of the three who were targets of the assasins were in on it. did he not understand that sh couldn't tell him.

 

He'd saved his life and sacrificed promising relationships with nice women to protect him from himself and his drug habit (okay, he was pressured by Mycroft to do that, but still). I think it is totally logical that he would have felt entitled

 

i like this explanation. the closeness of the relationship superscedes all rationale. the explanation of the necessity for molly and the 25 street people to be in on it would not ameliorate john's ire....it's an emotional thing.

 

i also like another reply's view of this episode's comedic turn was sh's ongoing attempt to pull jw out of his funk.

[Carol the Dabbler]

If you're looking for the discussion of the PBS airing, I've moved it here.

 

Watched "The Empty Hearse" last night on Masterpiece, only one viewing.  As wonderful as it was to see Sherlock, John, Molly, Mrs. Hudson and all the rest, I was dissatisfied with the episode.  Maybe it was too disjointed, and maybe I wanted to really know how Sherlock survived the fall, and maybe a better handling of Sherlock's reveal to John.   Whatever, I felt it was not a complete episode.  Hoping that the remaining two episodes make Empty Hearse a bit more harmonious.

 

Hang in there, Beth.  It is different, and a lot of us felt like you did, the first time we watched it -- but find that it improves with repeat viewings.

 

[SolitaryCyclist]

This recap of 'Hearse' is all I've ever wanted (i hope this is allowed!!!)

 

http://www.collegehumor.com/post/6948558/sherlock-season-3-episode-1-recap

 

What a hoot!

[T.o.b.y]

Found yet another reference to a Doyle story in The Empty Hearse (someone tell me when we can take this to the regular "canon references" thread): The skip code, where only every third word has meaning, is from "The Gloria Scott".

 

Spoiler box for all those who have not yet seen His Last Vow:

 

 

Not only that, but the story of Mr Trevor the older could very well have been an inspiration for this version of Mary Morstan: A man who became a murderer through unlucky circumstances and necessity comes (back) to England under an assumed name and leads a peaceful and blameless life until a witness from the past shows up and begins to blackmail him. 

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

.

Wow. Good catch on the Mr. Trevor angle, T.o.b.y. It does make a good in for Mary doesn't it.

 

[T.o.b.y]

Another spoiler box for all those who have not yet seen His Last Vow:

 

 

It sure does. And just like she carries a memory stick around with her real initials on it, Trevor the older had his, "J.A.", tatooed on his arm!

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Sweet! So it does make the whole Mary as an assassin so much more believable. So cool!

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

Hmmm... if Mary is Trevor the older, then is her baby going to be Victor? Oh no. Right. It's a girl.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

There is always Victoria?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

Yeah, if they name the baby Victoria, that'd kinda tip us off, wouldn't it?

 

 

Gonna have to re-read "Gloria Scott."

 

[T.o.b.y]

Hmmm. Maybe

 

 

they'll name the poor kid "Gloria Scott Watson?" "Scott" was one of Sherlock's many names, wasn't it?

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Yes. His full name is William Sherlock Scott Holmes.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

But if John lets her be named "Gloria Scott" he will have to back track on his telling Sherlock that "no, we're not naming our child after you."

Which of course, could happen, but Sherlock "Sherly" is more feminine then "Scott".

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

"Gloria Scott Watson" would definitely be cool!

 

John might figure that middle names don't count, so he's not really changing his mind.  Using "Shirley" would be too much of a pun, and "Wilhelmina" -- well I wouldn't wish that mouthful on an English kid.  "Scott" could be taken for a surname (and may have come from a surname in Sherlock's case, maybe his grandmother's maiden name or something), and baby girls are sometimes given surnames as middle names.  And of course "Gloria" would be for somebody on Mary's side of the family.

 

So yeah, I'm definitely up for it!

 

 

[Zain]

Rather spoilery for HLV...

 

 

I still don't want the child to have any name... And to me, it seems rather not decent to name your kid after the man your mommy tried to off... like a criminal naming his kid after his first victim to remember her by. Just imagine the talk.

"Mommy, why am I named Scott?"

"Oh, you know, there was this guy. You know, it's kind of funny, I once shot him. Oh, don't worry, it was only a shot to the stomach. Nothing life-threate... oh, well, nothing that killed him. Much."

 

[cumberholmes]

I loved John's reaction when he saw to Sherlock,  was hilarious!!

[gemzena]

I'm still confused about whether that last scenario was true or not! I feel as though Anderson's reaction was appropriate! 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I suspect we are supposed to feel a bit confused.  That scenario is probably as close to The Truth as we're likely to get, but presumably they had Sherlock telling the story to Anderson (instead of someone he's closer to) in order to leave us with a bit of doubt.  And yes, I sympathize with Anderson!

 

Welcome to Sherlock Forum, gemzena!    I hope you enjoy it here.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

 

First of all, I think Sherlock never fully understood how important he was to John. He got the fact that John was (is) attracted to danger and addicted to adrenaline and that he admired Sherlock's extraordinary gifts of mind, but I don't think he quite grasped that he was fond of him as a person. I don't believe he ever even considered that.

 

So when Mycroft came up with this plan to use John and his blog to convince the world of Sherlock's death in order to allow him to disappear and take down Moriarty's organization, I don't think Sherlock had a lot of scruples in accepting it. He didn't have any arguments against it that were rational in the sense of his brother and himself. But I got the impression in The Reichenbach Fall that while he might not have allowed himself to acknowledge it, he must have felt intuitively that it wasn't a very nice thing to do (to put it mildly). Then when he actually heard and saw John react to his supposed suicide (on the phone, when he tried to get through to the "body" and later in the graveyard), I think it kind of hit him in the face that he had really done him some damage. But he couldn't undo it, so he disappeared and went through with the plan.

 

Personally, I think no matter how well he might have convinced himself later that it wasn't a big deal and John would get over it fast enough ("sentiment" not being a factor to be much considered in his mind), deep down inside he always knew the truth and that was the real reason why he never wrote and also why he was uncomfortable when he came back and tried to steer the whole reunion towards one big joke.

 

 

Amazingly, I think Sherlock really did not understand at this point how much he meant to John. I agree with you there, though it seems so obvious to the rest of us. I was very surprised, and touched, in The Sign of Three, when it became apparent that Sherlock did not know he was John's best friend. Unbelieavable. So in The Empty Hearse he must not have understood as much, which is kind of sad, but makes sense when we look back to previous episodes. John never said (prior to the graveyard speech) anything about what Sherlock means to him, and he is fairly guarded with his feelings - it's not just Sherlock who's like that. Sherlock admits, in 'Hounds', that John is his only friend (as he sees it). But that John should feel the same way probably hasn't crossed his mind, since John does interact much better with people in general than Sherlock does. One might say that John has more friends, and that's why Sherlock was surprised that he, of all people, should be considered John's best friend.

In all fairness, though, I personally don't think John has more close friends than Sherlock does. The ones who claim to be Sherlock's friends are actually very, very fond of him.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

deep down inside he always knew the truth and that was the real reason why he never wrote and also why he was uncomfortable when he came back and tried to steer the whole reunion towards one big joke.

 

 

   I agree with most everything you have said. Sherlock has little understanding of human affection, he admitted it quite eloquently in his "Best Man" speech, but he did write to John during Sherlock's "Great Hiatus". He says so in TEH. I think it's in the scene when the three of them are in the small deli restaurant. But it's very softly said, almost a throw away line and John doesn't pick up on it.