Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I know Moran was an officer and big game hunter, but I don't remember anything said about his family. Guess I'll have to brush up myself.

[Ally.C]

Conclusion, she decided to leave that life at least 2 probably 3 years before she me John. Also she was former CIA (refer to the vault scene) so undoubtedly she started the path to assassin with at least a little persuasion. Yes she did free lance, not so good, but she did decide to leave it. Possibly she couldn't stomach it anymore.

The thing is, we know so little about her now. She freelanced and she was there to kill CAM. We would think due to the message she received at her wedding. For me, however, the fact that she was able to sneak off and do as much as she did in HLV before she was caught and has been known to freelance... Can we so easily accept she had given up that life when she became Mary Morstan, or was that the alias she created for freelancing once she was out of possible CIA affliiation?

[sherlockandjohn]

About the possibility of Moriarty being a brother (or maybe half-brother, who knows) of Sherlock and Mycroft, one thing that gave me that idea was Mycroft's face... He does something with his face that was exactly like looking at Moriarty. Look at the moment right before Mycroft says: "You know what happened to the other one". The way in which he turns his face and lifts his eyebrows immediately made me think of the pool scene in TGG, when Moriarty says: "I'm a specialist - like you!"

 

Of course, it could be a coincidence

[sherlockandjohn]

I wanted to address everyone's hatred of Mary. I was myself quite surprised at how much everyone dislikes Mary now. I don't think she's quite so horrible or conniving as everyone seems to think. I'll admit the "surgery" angle was a little hard for me to swallow but I figure is Sherlock said it I can take it. Recall the tunnel scene, Sherlock says 5 years back she became Mary but she couldn't of been involved with John for more than 2 years because she was there for him when Sherlock "died", Conclusion, she decided to leave that life at least 2 probably 3 years before she me John. Also she was former CIA (refer to the vault scene) so undoubtedly she started the path to assassin with at least a little persuasion. Yes she did free lance, not so good, but she did decide to leave it. Possibly she couldn't stomach it anymore. She does love John and that's why she was trying to kill Magnussen because she can't bare the thought of losing him. Her tracking Sherlock alone with a gun, meh, I personally don't see it as planning to kill him but I guess I'm alone on that. Also it took John 1 or 2 (can't remember) months to forgive her. Just because it was the next scene doesn't mean it was that quickly. Mary made a reference to not talking which I took to mean not talking at all not just on "the subject". 

 

Anyhow just my thoughts. There are other points I can agree with the majority on and there are somethings I wouldn't mind being different but although Mary has totally changed for me I don't totally loathe her like most people on here seem to now.

 

Hi quirkymomma, and welcome to the forum

 

I have been very upset with Mary and still am, but I must say - after a third viewing of the episode - I don't hate her. I do think she is incredibly selfish, though, and she did say that she would do anything to stop John from finding out the truth about her and leave her. That includes killing Sherlock. Now, a person who is willing to kill her husband's best friend if that is what it would take to keep her husband is seriously sociopathic. I admire Sherlock for forgiving her, and I think John's forgiveness was merciful, but also naive. If she doesn't realise how horrible it is to be willing to do absolutely anything to protect what she wants, she could be a danger to John and Sherlock in the future. And if John had been wiser in this situation, he would have realised that his wife is in serious need of help! She needs to see, as they say, the 'errors of her ways'.

[sherlockandjohn]

Oh, by the way, I doubt that most people here loathe Mary - it's just that the ones of us who have been appalled by her probably have a need to vent our frustrations, and the ones who still like her (at least to some degree) don't need to talk about it.

[T.o.b.y]

I do think she is incredibly selfish, though, and she did say that she would do anything to stop John from finding out the truth about her and leave her. That includes killing Sherlock.

 

But she didn't kill him even though she could have. I'd like to quote Shan here:

 

"What does it tell you when an assassin cannot shoot straight? It tells you that they're not really trying!"

[quirkymomma]

You're probably right. This is my very first time on the forum so I have no gauge how much people on here normally disagree with the writers. I guess people normally discuss things when they disagree. lol I normally just read these kinds of forums to get incites into the plot by people who are way smarter (or at least more up on the show) than I am.

[Ally.C]

 

I do think she is incredibly selfish, though, and she did say that she would do anything to stop John from finding out the truth about her and leave her. That includes killing Sherlock.

 

But she didn't kill him even though she could have. I'd like to quote Shan here:

 

"What does it tell you when an assassin cannot shoot straight? It tells you that they're not really trying!"

 

My issue with this, and it's the same with Sherlock saying this even and it makes me wonder if there's not more to why he's saying it - Fibbing, perhaps? - is that she actually did kill him. He flat-lined. The doctors gave up. Could Mary have really predicted that he would have come back to life on the table?

[Earendil]

Mary could have had another choice: kill Magnussen and ask Sherlock not to tell John. This 'surgical shot' is BS in my opinion, Sherlock almost died. I wouldn't forgive that.

 

By the way, if you are a former CIA-agent, killed lots of people already, and you want to assassinate someone you really hate, do you put your favourite perfume on? If she was a professional, she shouldn't have done that.

[sherlockandjohn]

So, yes, after a third viewing I can now say that, although I still dislike Mary, I don't find her quite as bad as I first did. She did after all try not to kill Sherlock, but to hospitalise him in order to procure the time she needed to persuade Sherlock not to tell John. She also phoned the ambulance, and she was truly upset when she had just shot him. She obviously doesn't want Sherlock dead, but there is something cold and calculating about her throughout the episode, at least until the point where John forgives her.

 

But enough about Mary, I'm honestly tired of going on about her. Doesn't change anything.

 

Incredible scenes in this episode for me are:

 

1) When Sherlock faces Mary at Magnussen's office. Sherlock's reaction is a bit heart-breaking; very well performed by BC.

2) Sherlock fighting his way back to life for John. Amazing, brilliant sequence of scenes with Mycroft, Redbeard, Molly, Moriarty - and most of all BC's stunning portrayal of Sherlock's pain.

3) The talk between Sherlock, John, and Mary in Baker Street. More stunning performances, especially from MF. It was gut-wrenching, and I felt that John's reactions were very real.

4) Sherlock killing Magnussen. The look on Sherlock's face as he says 'Merry Christmas' and shoots is manic! And the reactions of John and especially Mycroft... Oh my goodness, more heart-break! This is a real hero-moment for Sherlock (though honestly I think Mary should have gone to prison, and Sherlock should have spared himself, but then again, we wouldn't have seen this hero-moment, and Magnussen would have walked free).

5) The scene between Sherlock and John at the end. I had no problem with the handshake and the subtle emotions; I felt them just as keenly as if both men had cried. I cried, in fact, all three times I've watched the scene.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

I do think she is incredibly selfish, though, and she did say that she would do anything to stop John from finding out the truth about her and leave her. That includes killing Sherlock.

 

But she didn't kill him even though she could have. I'd like to quote Shan here:

 

"What does it tell you when an assassin cannot shoot straight? It tells you that they're not really trying!"

 

 

She almost killed him I'm still finding it hard to swallow the 'surgery' explanation. I think that was a bad cover-up, if the writers mean to make us believe that one. And about the second time she had a gun with her, she didn't shoot Sherlock because, as he said, if she did she would get caught. Okay, so we don't know if she would have killed him anyway - I don't think she would. Like I said, I know she has sentiment for Sherlock, but still... She is pretty far gone, obsessive about keeping John with her. She needs help.

[T.o.b.y]

 

She is pretty far gone, obsessive about keeping John with her.

 

Well, maybe he's simply the first good thing that has happened to her in years. Who knows. I don't think we'll ever find out. So much is left unexplained on this show...

 

Hmmm, "far gone". That sounds like I should like her. I usually take to people like that (at least in fiction). But for some reason, when it turned out she was the next "sociopath" on the team, I felt annoyed. I like it better when Sherlock is the only serious freak in a world full of "ordinary" people. I like him to be special and I feel as if he's been a bit devalued, what with Mycroft and Irene and Moriarty and Magnussen with his mind palace, and Billy Wiggins with his deductions and now Mary as well.

 

Oh, sorry, you just said back there you were tired of talking about her! Okay, change the subject then:

 

I thought it was interesting how, in the beginning, John was beginning to behave a lot like Sherlock! Did you notice?

[sherlockandjohn]

Hehe Yes I sure did notice that! 'He's the one on drugs?' 'Nicely put, John' (or they said something very close to that).

[Ally.C]

I think there was a lot to be said about addiction in the beginning of this episode. Clearly, we’re seeing that while Sherlock’s hand (face?) is being slapped for his (prior?) addictions everyone seems to be okay with John’s current addiction – danger. Less evident in the havoc it wreaks on you, perhaps, but is it less dangerous? I need a third watch through, but I feel like we see some lovely crumbling involving John and his addiction (kicking that chair!). Just as Sherlock lashed out at Mycroft.

 

Whenever I see all the parallels they pull I get this terrible grin on my face. I imagine I look a bit like Sherlock when he said “With your number”.

[Earendil]

Incredible scenes in this episode for me are:

 

1) When Sherlock faces Mary at Magnussen's office. Sherlock's reaction is a bit heart-breaking; very well performed by BC.

2) Sherlock fighting his way back to life for John. Amazing, brilliant sequence of scenes with Mycroft, Redbeard, Molly, Moriarty - and most of all BC's stunning portrayal of Sherlock's pain.

3) The talk between Sherlock, John, and Mary in Baker Street. More stunning performances, especially from MF. It was gut-wrenching, and I felt that John's reactions were very real.

4) Sherlock killing Magnussen. The look on Sherlock's face as he says 'Merry Christmas' and shoots is manic! And the reactions of John and especially Mycroft... Oh my goodness, more heart-break! This is a real hero-moment for Sherlock (though honestly I think Mary should have gone to prison, and Sherlock should have spared himself, but then again, we wouldn't have seen this hero-moment, and Magnussen would have walked free).

5) The scene between Sherlock and John at the end. I had no problem with the handshake and the subtle emotions; I felt them just as keenly as if both men had cried. I cried, in fact, all three times I've watched the scene.

 

My thoughts exactly! And one more very emotional moment, performed perfectly by Martin:

 

John: Mrs. Hudson… Why did Sherlock think I’ll be moving back in here?

Mrs Hudson: Oh he put your chair back again, isn’t he? It’s nice… Looks much better.

John notices the bottle of perfume on the table.

 

Absolutely brilliant! 

[sherlockandjohn]

Ugh, yeah - heart-breaking moment for John  Well performed, very subtle, but moving.

[sherlockandjohn]

Oh, one more that is both chilling and sad:

Sherlock looking at John as Magnussen is flicking John's face. And those words: 'Let him, I'm sorry, just... let him'. He sounds so broken when he says it! Looks broken, too, and getting more and more angry.

 

Actually, despite this episode being too dark for my taste (and being my least favorite episode), it does have the most beautiful, heart-wrenching scenes.

[T.o.b.y]

Oh, one more that is both chilling and sad:

Sherlock looking at John as Magnussen is flicking John's face. And those words: 'Let him, sorry, John, but just let him'. He sounds so broken when he says it! Looks broken, too, and getting more and more angry.

 

Ugh, that scene is so painful. It's almost worse than Sherlock being beaten up in Serbia at the beginning of The Empty Hearse. The acting is brilliant and it is very well done, but I have a feeling that I will fast-forward it every time I see it on DVD. The first time I saw it, I got so incredibly angry. Know that feeling when you want to reach inside the TV and pull someone out or push someone else away? I wanted to pick up John's gun and shoot Magnussen right then and there. Imagine how thrilled I was when Sherlock finally did it. That was great. Do it again, Sherlock. (I can just see myself obsessively rewinding that "Merry Christmas" part with an evil grin on my face, just like Magnussen himself enjoying his bonfire).

 

[Ally.C]

I'm finding that series three, for as much as it seems highly flashy, is a lot more... subtle in many ways than series one and two. Because it is more about character than case there is a lot more to slowly uncover.

 

Each watch I find something new. I think this hiatus will involve a lot more personal Mind Palace than TRF did...

[Caya]

Ugh, that scene is so painful. It's almost worse than Sherlock being beaten up in Serbia at the beginning of The Empty Hearse. The acting is brilliant and it is very well done, but I have a feeling that I will fast-forward it every time I see it on DVD. The first time I saw it, I got so incredibly angry. Know that feeling when you want to reach inside the TV and pull someone out or push someone else away? I wanted to pick up John's gun and shoot Magnussen right then and there. Imagine how thrilled I was when Sherlock finally did it. That was great. Do it again, Sherlock. (I can just see myself obsessively rewinding that "Merry Christmas" part with an evil grin on my face, just like Magnussen himself enjoying his bonfire).

 

There's a brilliant scene in Babylon 5 ... when asked by one of the most repulsive villains of this show what he wanted, Vir Cotto (normally one of the most gentle and kind-hearted characters) told him, with a warm smile, that the one thing he wanted to look into his dead eyes and wave - and then he gave this little wave with his right hand (starts at 1:08 in this video):

 

 

In our household, this has become the standard reaction to repulsive characters on re-watching (or watching something we've read the book of already, like Game of Thrones). When I'm watching Vow again, I'll do just that - give Magnussen a happy smile and a wave when he first appears on screen, thinking happy thoughts of of how he has it coming .

[T.o.b.y]

I'm finding that series three, for as much as it seems highly flashy, is a lot more... subtle in many ways than series one and two. Because it is more about character than case there is a lot more to slowly uncover.

 

I sure see flashy, but I don't see so much more subtlety than before (well, would have been hard to top that...). There were some great moments, of course.

 

I really, really liked the drugs bit. It wasn't overdone, to begin with. Sherlock wasn't obviously high, not tottering about and babbling again or hallucinating or whatnot. He really had me fooled at first; I completely bought he was only hanging out there as part of an investigation. But he was a bit "off", after all. It only became really evident when he got violent with Mycroft (oh, and I loved that bit, too. I have unfortunately developed a violent dislike of Sherlock's big brother).

 

There was no rational excuse for him really having taken drugs, was there. He could have done just what the original did in "The Man with the Twisted Lip" and only hung out at the drug den, pretending to get high. I think Sherlock wanted to take them. I further wonder why he said hello to John. Considering how angry he was later that John had "ruined" his undercover job, he could have just kept his mouth shut, because there was a huge chance that John would never have noticed him.

[KaeEm]

I wanted to address everyone's hatred of Mary. I was myself quite surprised at how much everyone dislikes Mary now. I don't think she's quite so horrible or conniving as everyone seems to think. I'll admit the "surgery" angle was a little hard for me to swallow but I figure is Sherlock said it I can take it. Recall the tunnel scene, Sherlock says 5 years back she became Mary but she couldn't of been involved with John for more than 2 years because she was there for him when Sherlock "died", Conclusion, she decided to leave that life at least 2 probably 3 years before she me John. Also she was former CIA (refer to the vault scene) so undoubtedly she started the path to assassin with at least a little persuasion. Yes she did free lance, not so good, but she did decide to leave it. Possibly she couldn't stomach it anymore. She does love John and that's why she was trying to kill Magnussen because she can't bare the thought of losing him. Her tracking Sherlock alone with a gun, meh, I personally don't see it as planning to kill him but I guess I'm alone on that. Also it took John 1 or 2 (can't remember) months to forgive her. Just because it was the next scene doesn't mean it was that quickly. Mary made a reference to not talking which I took to mean not talking at all not just on "the subject". 

 

Anyhow just my thoughts. There are other points I can agree with the majority on and there are somethings I wouldn't mind being different but although Mary has totally changed for me I don't totally loathe her like most people on here seem to now.

 

I haven't really made up my mind about Mary either, I can't say that I loathe her. I share your impression that she didn't track Sherlock down alone with a gun to kill him. Shooting him the frist time was - according to her logic - necessary because Sherlock was being overly confident that her (platonic) love for him would prevent her from harming him, and therefore there was nothing else she could do to prevent him from letting John know who she really was. I think when she was tracking him down later, she brought the gun with her to make fully clear to him how far she was willing to go, but she hoped that Sherlock had learned his lesson and would agree not to tell John. 

 

As far as I understood, it took John several months to even talk to her again. At least Mary mentions "months of silence" before their conversation at Christmas. And I agree that this meant he hadn't been talking to her at all, and I dare think he probably moved in with Sherlock again for those months. 

 

The interesting thing is that everyone seems to judge Mary for killing people in the past , while we also clearly know that Sherlock hasn't spent the two years after Reichenbach drinking tea and just inviting Moriarty's people to reconsider.

 

As you stated, Mary has given up her life as an assassin years before she met John and it seems that she really wanted to change and leave that life behind her. She became a nurse, a job where she's helping people, we've seen her being very nice and caring to her neighbour and given all the positive things Sherlock deduced about her in TEH, I think her will to change and make up for her past is actually genuine. And so is her love for John. Sherlock trusts her on that and I'm kind of willing to do so as well. 

 

The only thing that makes me dislike Mary is the fact that she took a nearly fatal shot at Sherlock. I can't forgive that as easily as Sherlock himself did, it might take me a few months just like John 

[KaeEm]

Mary could have had another choice: kill Magnussen and ask Sherlock not to tell John. This 'surgical shot' is BS in my opinion, Sherlock almost died. I wouldn't forgive that.

 

 

The problem with killing Magnussen was that Janine wasn't dead and Mary wasn't willing to kill her, too. We don't even know if the security guard was dead, Sherlock just said "who cares" if he's alive or not. Janine had let Sherlock into the flat and would certainly tell the police that he was in the flat at the time the murder happened (while it was highly unlikely that Magnuessen would have contacted the police for the stolen letters - that didn't even exist, I suppose - they surely would have been contacted after he was murdered). And I have no doubt the security footage of the entrance of the building would have shown the police that John had been with Sherlock. So shooting CAM would have led to John becoming a murder suspect - along with Sherlock. Certainly not what Mary wanted to happen. 

 

I'm not defending Mary for shooting Sherlock, that was a bad choice. But shooting Magnussen wasn't an option any more in that situation. 

[Dalwhat]

I have never for a moment believed that Sherlock is a sociopath. And, honestly, I don't think he believes it either. In my opinion Sherlock uses his qualification as a ‘high-functioning sociopath’ as a shield. Previous to HLV he only ever mentioned being a sociopath in defense when being a pyschopath.

 

 

 

To be honest in the first series he was more autistic, bordering on Aspergers, but I suppose it was more pc just to label him as a sociopath. Autistics are sociopathic after all by their very nature.

[Ally.C]

 

I sure see flashy, but I don't see so much more subtlety than before (well, would have been hard to top that...). There were some great moments, of course.

 

Perhaps other subtleties have been too subtle for me! I just felt like even though there was less said out front before everything seemed much more forward. There were many nuances to characters, but I didn't feel like I had to pick them apart quite the same way.

 

 

There was no rational excuse for him really having taken drugs, was there. He could have done just what the original did in "The Man with the Twisted Lip" and only hung out at the drug den, pretending to get high. I think Sherlock wanted to take them. I further wonder why he said hello to John. Considering how angry he was later that John had "ruined" his undercover job, he could have just kept his mouth shut, because there was a huge chance that John would never have noticed him.

 

 

It almost seems like a call for attention at that point, doesn't it? How sad...

 

 

 

To be honest in the first series he was more autistic, bordering on Aspergers, but I suppose it was more pc just to label him as a sociopath. Autistics are sociopathic after all by their very nature.

 

In THoB John mentions to Lestrade Sherlock's Aspergers. It's a very brief and quiet comment. Certainly not an official diagnosis. Seeing as John is a doctor, it's an interesting comment, and Lestrade doesn't really make anything of it.