Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Alex the Dabbler]

I also like Mary, but I don't like what Moftiss did with her in His Last Vow.  It seems to me they were combining shock value with making Mary play the role of Sebastian Moran.  I was about as impressed with that as I was with

Elementary's making Irene Adler Moriarty

.

[Zain]

 

As far as I can recall the only evidence we have that she is CIA comes from CAM, who I trust about as far as I can throw a Chevy.

 

These are the things he says:

- I’m not a murderer ... unlike your wife.

- Oh, she’s bad, that one. So many dead people. You should see what I’ve seen.

- All those wet jobs for the CIA. Ooh!

- She’s gone a bit ... freelance now. Bad girl.

- Ah, she is so wicked.

 

If you believe him, it sounds bad for Mary. But I see no reason to believe him.

 

 

May I ask why you mistrust Magnussen?

I can't say he's my favorite character but to our knowledge he does not deal with falsified information. He himself states that he could "print whatever he likes." And yet he collects dirt on people instead of fabricating it. I sincerely believe he is not a liar. Doesn't make him into a good or nice person. But I cannot recall one moment in season three where Magnussen lies. That's why I take his words about Mycroft at such a value. To me, he seems the most sincere character in HLV even. He neither pretends to be something he isn't nor does he deceive people. 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I don't trust him and he did say he never needed to provide proof of anything he wrote so, as posted above, he could print what ever he wanted and....it is a fact....that many people absolutely believe what they read and don't bother to check sources.

[Arcadia]

Ooops, we must've all been posting at once! This is in response to Zain....

 

 

Well, that's a good point. I guess I mistrust him for the very reason you said: he can "print whatever he likes." That implies he doesn't care if it's the truth or not, as long as it gets him what he wants. Also he apparently distorts the truth; Lady Smallwood contended that her husband's relations with the young girl were less scurrilous than Magnussen implied. Distorting the truth is a form of lying. So if he's willing to lie about some things, I guess I believe he'll happily lie about any thing. But I suppose you're right, there's no real evidence he was lying.

[Arcadia]

I also like Mary, but I don't like what Moftiss did with her in His Last Vow.  It seems to me they were combining shock value with making Mary play the role of Sebastian Moran.  I was about as impressed with that as I was with

Elementary's making Irene Adler Moriarty

.

I could even be okay with that, I think, if it just made sense. Right now very little of it does; except, as you say, for the shock value of it. And I was shocked. The emotional punch of this episode was very powerful, I was moved as I seldom am by TV. But I'd prefer if it also  made sense.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Thanks. I did wonder if the Hide button would get rid of it....

The Hide button doesn't actually delete a post, but it does make it invisible to everyone except staff. So if you've made a double post or if you've decided your last post was an unsalvageable load of nonsense, the Hide button is the way to go.

 

 

I guess I feel compelled to give Mary the benefit of the doubt because, in spite of everything (such as LYING, you twit!), I trust Sherlock. And Sherlock trusts her. Either he knows something about her that makes him trust her, or he's so confident in his ability to read people that, like John, he feels he doesn't need to know any more about her. Or, as I sometimes fear, the scriptwriters are merely jerking us around again and none of what we see or hear can be believed. Which would sort of spoil the fun, imho.

Amen to all of that!

 

I guess I feel towards the series as I presume John does towards Sherlock: you bastard unforgivable liar, I'll never be able to trust you fully again, ever, and I still love you, so I'll give up trying to understand you, let alone hoping you'll change, and just enjoy the ride while it lasts.

And to all of that as well.

 

I sometimes feel that Moftiss have ruined the show. Then I stop to think that if I just ignore a few details in one episode, I'm still happy with it. (Not saying it's otherwise perfect, but then it never was.) So hopefully they're going to make things right in Series 4 (either because they planned to all along, or because they realize they messed up with "Last Vow") -- or at least they won't screw up that badly again and we can sorta get past it.

 

[Arcadia]

 

 

Uh-huh, I feel that way too. I guess I feel towards the series as I presume John does towards Sherlock: you bastard unforgivable liar, I'll never be able to trust you fully again, ever, and I still love you, so I'll give up trying to understand you, let alone hoping you'll change, and just enjoy the ride while it lasts.

 

Except he does still rather trust him, doesn't he? He goes along to Appledore without a quibble, and assumes Sherlock has a plan for getting them out when things go wrong. As I assume I will trust S4 to be enjoyable whenever it comes along...

[T.o.b.y]

Oh, I can't say I feel they've screwed up. I was afraid of that and I'm very apprehensive about further episodes, but I must say that all it took for me to grow really fond of series 3 was a little repetition and forgetting my overblown expectations in the process. The trouble for me was that while I saw series 2 pretty soon after series 1, I had two entire years to speculate and daydream about series 3 and to perfect a crazy Reichenbach theory, so of course there was this huge discrepancy between what I had envisioned and what I actually saw. But when I come to think about it, a lot more of my wishes came true than not and nothing happened that I truly hated. Even Moriarty's return seems a little less dumb to me now. And besides, if I stop after His Last Vow, I can always choose to believe it isn't really him, anyway.

 

No, no, series 3 is fine for me. I'm quite anxious now about the next one and I don't like anything they've announced for it so far, but it's all just rumor and speculation anyway and thank god there wasn't really a cliffhanger this time and there was a good ending.

[Arcadia]

Yeah, I haven't participated too much in the "what would you like to happen in Series 4" stuff because I don't really want to have many expectations, I just sorta want what happens to happen, and hope I'll enjoy the results.

 

And I think S3 has actually become my favorite, because it is so emotionally rich. And because it's an absolute gift to Benedict Cumberbatch as an actor, he's given so many different angles to play, and nails them all.

[T.o.b.y]

Yeah, I haven't participated too much in the "what would you like to happen in Series 4" stuff because I don't really want to have many expectations, I just sorta want what happens to happen, and hope I'll enjoy the results.

 

And I think S3 has actually become my favorite, because it is so emotionally rich. And because it's an absolute gift to Benedict Cumberbatch as an actor, he's given so many different angles to play, and nails them all.

 

Benedict who? No, don't tell me Sherlock isn't real...

'Course you are right, he's given a lot more scope as the series advances. Actually, I thought series 2 was the most amazing in that area, for Freeman too. But 3 adds new nuances, and they do pull off the "humanized" Sherlock very, very well; he does not seem like a different person but genuinely like a matured version of the same person he always was, just like real people change in real life.

 

You are very wise not to anticipate too much, but I can't help playing that game, I enjoy it too much. Luckily, it didn't stand in the way of my enjoyment of my new DVDs for long. (And thank god I got those from Britain. Some day, when I am in the mood, I will rant about the absurdity of the German translation, but not now, don't worry).

[Arcadia]

Not just matured, but he has to handle things while he's somewhat off balance as well, it seems to me. It's a lovely portrayal, whatever it is.

 

Your remark about the German translation reminds me of when we were in Tokyo when I was a kid, and we watched the old western Bonanza, translated into Japanese. The voices were all wrong! And they were so emphatic! We couldn't help ourselves, we just howled (thankfully we were in the privacy of our hotel room!

[Zain]

It's not the voices that are wrong. I honest to god don't know why the translators don't consider it ridiculous that John and Sherlock treat each other like business men or officials. In German, you get a formal way to address people, and an informal one. And John and Sherlock still haven't managed to address each other informally. It really sounds horrible, especially when they call each other by their first names, and it is followed by a formal marker.

It's good that Sherlock is translated into other languages, and that it is received by a large audience. But you cannot take the German version seriously. You just start to laugh like a hyena or shout exasperatedly whenever the characters talk to each other. I  wonder what they'll do with season three. Probably John will call Sherlock his friend while still using the polite form of address.

Okay... rant end. This really doesn't belong here. Sorry.

[Janie]

I could complain about czech translation for hours but this is not a thread for it and I don't have time anyway..

Though I can't resist one little remark about it and it even kind of belongs here. In one of the two czech translations (yes, we have two versions) they translated the name of this episode as "His last words". I haven't been brave enough to watch series 3 in Czech yet.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Some day, when I am in the mood, I will rant about the absurdity of the German translation, but not now, don't worry.

 

I honest to god don't know why the translators don't consider it ridiculous that John and Sherlock treat each other like business men or officials. <snip> Okay... rant end. This really doesn't belong here. Sorry.

 

I could complain about czech translation for hours but this is not a thread for it and I don't have time anyway.

 

That sounds like a great topic for an interesting new thread!    There are quite a few non-English-speaking countries represented here, so that would give people a good place to post their own examples (and/or rants).

 

[T.o.b.y]

Since most big reveals in this show seem to be foreshadowed, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the strange "surgery" theory were to be used again for the explanation on how Moriarty survived, now that they've planted the idea in our heads that you can survive a seemingly fatal shot. So based on what we saw in His Last Vow, my prediction is Moriarty is indeed alive and the head shot was real, only he didn't die from it and now he's recovered and back in the game.

 

By the way, I suppose I've said this a million times, but I just love John's reaction to Janine and that whole conversation where John is trying to sound Sherlock out about his relationship and Sherlock wants to talk about Appledore instead. I can't decide whether I think that Sherlock is really oblivious and genuinely focused on The Work or whether he's just putting on an act and enjoying himself hugely.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the strange "surgery" theory were to be used again for the explanation on how Moriarty survived, now that they've planted the idea in our heads that you can survive a seemingly fatal shot.

 

  A good point, but several people including Mofftiss have spotted and mentioned brain matter in the blood supposedly, in Mofftiss's statements "no one can survive brain stem damage. But not trusting Mofftiss at this point....maybe he did survive....but with brain damage....maybe he's back....but as the "good twin"  as someone suggested above,   trying to save the man he once tried to destroy so completely?

[Arcadia]

Would a "good" twin take over all the TV broadcasts tho? That seems "a bit not good"......

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Unless he was trying to save Sherlock. That has been suggested by others before me.

[Carol the Dabbler]

As T.o.b.y said above, "most big reveals in this show seem to be foreshadowed" -- so I'm expecting Mummy Holmes to tie into the whole Moriarty thing somewhere.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh yes, looking forward to learning much more about Mummy Holmes absolutely.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... and "the other one" -- who may actually be dear old Jim.  (Think I'm starting to get dizzy here.     )

 

[T.o.b.y]

... and "the other one" -- who may actually be dear old Jim.

 

I'd like that. At least better than the introduction of yet another new character. And it could explain a lot.

 

I wonder whether the fact that Sherlock is now officially a murderer and was supposed to be exiled before they decided they needed him at home because of Moriarty will be in any way dealt with in series 4. After the effortless restoration of his good name at the beginning of series 3, my bet is on no.

 

Can I just gush a bit? Sherlock is absolutely wonderful in this episode. Talk about the actor being given opportunity to show off his range. And the character comes the closest here to how I read the original Holmes and why I fell in love with him. Especially during the Watson's "domestic" at Baker St. "John, be calm and answer me" - now, there's the hero of my teens!

 

Really, when (if ever...) we get the next series, somebody remind me to watch it at least ten times and wait three months before even attempting to make up my mind about it. I was really underwhelmed when this first came out and now I absolutely love it.

 

Oh, and there is another reason why I really don't mind Sherlock shooting Magnussen instead of outwitting him: it mirrors the shooting of the cabbie, doesn't it. Poetically, it makes a lot of sense (and that is what matters to me, being a romantic at heart...).

Apart from a ton of cases I'd like to see them handle in the 21st century, I have one wish left unfulfilled, though: After all Sherlock did for him and Mary, I think John might consider saying something akin to thank you. Even if it does fall in the "honest stuff" category and people might talk and Sherlock is still a horrible person for having put him through the fake suicide and the two years after that. But still. Why not get really drunk once again and just say it. Only two words... I wouldn't have written that into the good bye scene on the airfield, though. That is perfect as it is in my eyes. I love the gruffness and awkwardness of it and it's very close to the feeling of series 1.

 

Speaking of series 1, His Last Vow had an awful lot of references to A Study in Pink, didn't it? Now, I could accuse Mr Moffat of singing his own praises there, but I prefer to look at it as the series coming full circle so I can stop watching it and be happy with my ending in case series 4 never comes out or is totally horrible or something like that.

[Arcadia]

Unless he was trying to save Sherlock.

Oh, yeah. Forgot. Good point! Okay then, good twin it is!

[Arcadia]

Don't forget the "sane" one, Daddy Holmes. Maybe he turns out  to have formerly occupied a minor position in the British government. He could be behind everything!

[Arcadia]

 

 

 

...I wonder whether the fact that Sherlock is now officially a murderer and was supposed to be exiled before they decided they needed him at home because of Moriarty will be in any way dealt with in series 4. After the effortless restoration of his good name at the beginning of series 3, my bet is on no.

 

...Sherlock is absolutely wonderful in this episode. Talk about the actor being given opportunity to show off his range....

 

... I wouldn't have written that into the good bye scene on the airfield, though. That is perfect as it is in my eyes. I love the gruffness and awkwardness of it and it's very close to the feeling of series 1.

 

Speaking of series 1, His Last Vow had an awful lot of references to A Study in Pink, didn't it? ...

 

Agreeing wholeheartedly on the first 3!

 

#4 -- What were the other references besides the one you mentioned? (The shooting.) I'm not great at noticing stuff like that, I love it when other people point it out tho. What else did you see?