Benedict Cumberbatch in "Parades End" (spoilers!)

[T.o.b.y]

We've been rambling on about Parades End elsewhere and I think it's such a beautiful bit of television that it deserves it's own thread.

[T.o.b.y]

What did you think of Valentine?

 

I loved Valentine. I think her role must have been quite a challenge, because she is such a "good" person. There was every danger that she would come across as preachy or boring or simply "too good to be true". But she was very delicately portrayed and I found her quite believable. Her youthful idealism and innocence were very sweet. And her being a suffragette and a pacifist worked surprisingly well. I usually don't like characters like her but Valentine... well, I think I fell in love with her right then and there when Tietjens himself did and I really wanted him to finally allow himself to give in to his love for her, because it was so obvious that she would do him a world of good.

[Slithytove]

I liked her much more than I would have expected. She could have been irritating but she came across as young and innocent but passionate and committed. And, in the end, she stood up to the extremely formidable Sylvia.

 

I don't know if you have read the book but I didn't realise, till I read it, that Valentine and Tietjens had been nursing an unconsummated, unspoken love for seven years.

 

SEVEN YEARS!

[T.o.b.y]

No, I never read the book. I didn't even know it existed before this adaptation - which is for the best, because usually, once I have read a book, I never like the film or series based on it ("Sherlock" is one big exception!) Now I refuse to go near the novel, because I'm afraid it will spoil the BBC production for me... I'm very silly that way.

 

Seven years... how long was it in the movie? (I know it's a series, but it seems like one long film to me).

 

Yes, Valentine stood up to Sylvia. And like all scenes in Parades End, it wasn't as simple as that. In that confrontation, Sylvia is extremely dignified and beautiful and sophisticated and Valentine comes across as very young, plain and immature. And neither Tietjens nor his wife pay her much attention, they look at each other and seem to be settling things between them without Val. It's all so complicated and layered.

[Slithytove]

I understand what you mean. I did find, though, the the book added to my understanding of the film. It was particularly enlightening regarding Mark Tietjens, the brother. As a family, they are crippled by their own reserve. Christopher never denies in public the lies Sylvia spreads about him, though they destroy his reputation. His father believes the lies and kills himself, having refused the opportunity to question his son. (Even Christopher thinks this is a bit much.). Mark has a mistress whom he eventually marries but for years she doesn't even know his surname or where he works.

The only rather jarring note in the book is that Christopher is large, clumsy and not attractive, whereas Benedict is obviously very handsome.

In the film, he was unable to be with Valentine for a long time but I didn't realise they had been pining for each other for seven years....

[T.o.b.y]

The only rather jarring note in the book is that Christopher is large, clumsy and not attractive, whereas Benedict is obviously very handsome.

 

Yes, his Tietjens is certainly attractive. But I think, in the adaptation at least, that it makes more sense that way for Sylvia to have gotten involved with him and still have a kind of longing for him even after their marriage has gone to pieces.

 

I read somewhere (I can never remember where I read these things) that they made the actor wear prosthetics inside his cheeks to make his face look fuller and that he gained quite a bit of weight for that role.

 

[Slithytove]

Yes, I heard him say during an interview that he was wearing "plumpers" in his cheeks. Wasn't sure if he was joking. Prosthetics or not, he was still very good looking..... I wouldn't have wanted to wait seven years for him, though, without even an "I love you.". Of course, both he and Valentine were repressing their emotions, which made the scene all the more passionate when he asks her to be his mistress for one night, before he returns to France. And then they are frustrated by her brother's unexpected presence.

[Ruthyone]

Another series with Benedict in - I watched it because he was in it and thought he was really good.

The couple had to wait a long time because of the war (and of his wife's reluctance to give him up) because people did seem to wait in those days.

Reading an interview with Benedict, I think he really enjoyed that part.

[T.o.b.y]

I didn't get the impression that it was just Sylvia who wouldn't let him go. It seemed more like he wouldn't let himself go. A mistress, a divorce... that was completely opposed to the concept he had of himself as a good old-fashioned gentleman of honor. And the more the world fell apart around him, the more he must have clung to that. Besides, I think he did love Sylvia and part of him maybe wished they could have been happy. But for similar reasons that he couldn't give in to his love for Valentine he also couldn't allow himself to love his wife after she had been unfaithful. Remember the scene where he sneaks into her hotel room in France and buries his face in her negligée? And what comes after that? There seemed to have been an awful lot of pent-up desire.

[Sherlock_luvr]

I watched this recently and really loved it. I can't remember if there were special features on the dvd but I don't think so.  BC did an excellent job conveying emotional restraint and pent up desire.

 

I do wonder how an actor gets through a scene like the very last one, though. Pray you get along with your co-star I suppose!

[T.o.b.y]

The last one? You mean Christopher and Valentine? Well, I don't know. I can imagine worse things for a pair of actors.

[Ruthyone]

There used to be an American cops series years ago called 'McMillan & Wife' starring Rock Hudson and Susan Saint James and apparently they could not stand each other, but you'd never have known!

I suppose if you're an actor - you have to act a part even if you can't stand the person you.re acting with!

[Carol the Dabbler]

True -- if an actor is a real pro.

 

However, I would take most of those "they can't stand each other" stories with a grain of salt.  The tabloids need to sell papers somehow!

 

[sherlockandjohn]

Finally got around to watching this about a week ago. I must say, it wasn't love at first sight for me, but having thought through the story afterwards, I do like it. All three main characters have interesting and moving stories. What was really sad for me, at least at first, was the outcome of Sylvia's story. She had made some bad choices and hurt Christopher early on; their marriage was based on her getting pregnant, but it was clear that she still loved Christopher. After then having waited for five years for him to warm up to her, he ends up with someone else anyway. It was sad. I hoped for a different ending, but looking back I can see the purpose of the series being a sort of revolution; the end of the "old ways" that Christopher represents. He is all about duty and honour. Of course, that did not bode well for his relationship with the somewhat outrageous Sylvia. Valentine, I think, represents a bit of the old and the new all in one; she is a young, idealistic sufragette, with a belief in a love that overcomes circumstances. I understand the ending now, I think.

[sfmpco]

Maybe there's a topic already started for this, but i couldn't find it on a search.  

 

Anyhow, I just got done watching the five episodes.  Absolutely exhausting to get through it.  I have to think about this one for a while.  It's all available for download on ITunes.  Anyone else seen it?

 

BC's character in this is soooooo repressed.  Makes Sherlock look like an open book, and we think of SH as pretty closed off.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Carol the Dabbler
From a new thread, now merged with this one

[T.o.b.y]

Mhm, there is a thread:

 

http://www.sherlockforum.com/forum/topic/1985-parades-end-spoilers-included/

 

I love Parades End. I think it's the most beautiful piece of television ever made. It wasn't exhausting for me, but I remember crying a lot (laughing, too, though, on occasion).

 

Yes, Mr Tietjens is pretty repressed. Poor man. But he lives and learns... I love how he looses everything, yet gains freedom and finally learns to let go. I think his personal fate is supposed to mirror what happened to Europe at large through the effects of the First World War.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Carol the Dabbler
From a new thread, now merged with this one

[sfmpco]

The ending was too quick after waiting for it for so long... would like to have seen a little more of Christopher and Valentine.

[Ruthyone]

The last one? You mean Christopher and Valentine? Well, I don't know. I can imagine worse things for a pair of actors.

I'm sure a lot of actresses would love to play a part with an actor like Benedict 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Maybe there's a topic already started for this, but i couldn't find it on a search.

 

Mhm, there is a thread:

 

http://www.sherlockforum.com/forum/topic/1985-parades-end-spoilers-included/

 

 

Thanks, T.o.b.y -- there was indeed already a thread, but I didn't see it either, because it was over in "Movies and Entertainment."  While that's certainly appropriate, the recent trend has been to cover the Sherlock cast & crew's extracurricular activities in this "Cast and Crew" area, so I've merged the two threads, moved the result into this area, and combined the two titles.

 

[sfmpco]

Well, I do love the end... what can I say.  Can watch that part over and over and do. 

[J.P.]

Now I've seen it too.

Don't know - Sylvia didn't convince me as a character. Came a bit 2-dimentional, too bad to be true... As for Christopher - he is too god to be true, but I buy him. :D I somehow miss more about their son.

 

Might be the devil advocate here, but I do think they tried to make Christy as unattractive as possible, and Ben tried very hard too.

 

 

I read somewhere (I can never remember where I read these things) that they made the actor wear prosthetics inside his cheeks to make his face look fuller and that he gained quite a bit of weight for that role.

 

And I thought that he must have lost a lot of weight towards the end of the film, but of course they could shoot the films in reverse order.

 

Anyway, at some point while he was at war I started to wonder if Christopher is going to die in this, like the character in Antonement. And I didin't wanted it to happen. The happy end almost surprised me.

 

I think binge watching it in one piece made it a bit slow, but the costumes were glorious.

[T.o.b.y]

I thought Sylvia was relatable. I feel for her... Love the scene where she throws the plate at Christopher, for example.

[DistantView]

I loved this series when I saw it. It's been awhile,  so some of the detail escapes me, but it's in my top 5 for productions that I've seen BC in so far.