The Series 3 Poll

[Caya]

The current discussion in the Subtext thread got me wondering just how many people are dissatisfied with some of the events in S3 - a vocal minority, or are we fans more divided on some issues than Moffat acknowledges? Therefore I put up this poll, to get a feeling of how our community here stands on these issues.

 

I tried to pick the three most controversial points in each episode (and I freely admit I was reaching in Sign, which seems comparatively conflicting-interpretations-free) from a general feeling of what has been discussed round here. If I picked wrong, please tell me so in this thread!

 

A special plea to the many registered forum users here who haven't yet joined us in posting: I made this poll anonymous, so not even us moderators can see who voted what. So please consider sharing your opinion by voting, even if you generally refrain from doing so. The more people vote, the more representative the result will be. Thank you .

[Janie]

Just an idea: Maybe you should add a "neutral" opinion to this poll. For example: Killing someone unnoticed in TSoT doesn't bother me but I wouldn't say "Yay" to it either. I just accepted it as it was because I'm not a doctor and I don't have any interest in nitpicking in details like whether it was actually possible to kill someone like that or not. The same goes for a few others scenes you chose. 

[Caya]

This is why I made it multiple choice like that - if something is neither Nay or Yay for you, just leave both blank. Though I admit I could've explained that beforehand , sorry!

[Janie]

It's ok, one just can't think of everything I just wasn't sure whether it would allow me to vote if I left something out. 

[sherlockandjohn]

A question: "Sherlock's attempt to surprise John" - is that the restaurant or the train scene?

 

Good idea, by the way.

[Caya]

I was thinking of that waiter number of his in the restaurant, but the bomb scare is another controversial scene, agreed.

[sherlockandjohn]

Yes, I think people are very divided about the train scene, but I'm kind of glad I don't have to answer that one, as I have a love/hate perspective of that. The restaurant scene is easy for me It is one of my absolute favorites in series 3. Including the part that involved Sherlock pretending to be a waiter.

[Carol the Dabbler]

OK, I've voted, and here's my long version:

 

Assorted explanations -- cute, but maybe a tad too cute -- didn't vote (but I'm basically OK with it)

Mycroft -- I assume you mean in the torture scene -- meh -- didn't vote (but if you twist my arm I'd say nay)

Sherlock's surprise -- love that part (and John's response!) -- so Yay!

 

Drunken stag night -- hilarious! -- so Yay!

Killing unnoticed -- it's clever but not terribly believable (I prefer the "meat daggar") -- so Nay

So3 Mary -- a definite Yay!

 

Airfield -- sad but lovely -- so Yay!

Moriarty -- I voted NAY against his actual return (but I'm OK with a brother or imposter)

HLV Mary -- I still like her as a "person," plus I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt for John's sake, but I don't think the writers treated her fairly, so Nay

 

[sherlockandjohn]

Hm, I'll follow Carol's example and give a short explanation for my vote:

 

Assorted explanations to the fall -- Yay. Exciting and fun, though not at all necessary for the plot or the character drama.

Mycroft bailing out Sherlock -- Yay. Though I don't enjoy torture (obviously), I am not bothered by Mycroft's attitude, since I don't like him for his big heart (also obvious). I think his character is interesting, and this scene is a great way to re-introduce both him and Sherlock.

Sherlock's surprise -- Big yay! I believe I was shaking from the moment Sherlock entered the restaurant, and every move and line was excellent!

 

Drunken stag night -- Nay. Though very funny, it is also a tad too cute and ridiculous for me.

Killing unnoticed -- Yay. Or nay. Don't really care.

So3 Mary -- Yay. She's very supportive of John and Sherlock.

 

Airfield -- Yay. So poignant. The very idea of them never meeting again makes for a very emotional scene.

Moriarty -- Yay. Or nay. Depends on series 4.

HLV Mary -- Nay. Her coldness scares me a bit. I trust her a lot less than Sherlock, even though they have some things in common.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yay. Or nay. Depends on series 4.

That pretty well sums up my feeling about a whole lot of "Last Vow."

[T.o.b.y]

Oooh if we're doing long versions, I want to have a go, too:

 

Assorted explanations -- liked the idea to bring in all kinds of fan theories and ridicule them a bit, though fondly. Did not really like the "official" explanation, but could have been worse and I appreciated the way they left a grain of doubt for those who want to continue believing in their own ideas.

 

Mycroft -- I'm hardly ever happy about his involvement in anything. I assumed you meant the fact that it turns out Mycroft ran the fake suicide, wasn't even thinking of the torture scene. If the latter, then definitely no, no, no. That was horrible. And unnecessary. And the worse for being wholly unpalliated by any kind of care for or sympathy with the victim. I still wish somebody would at least acknowledge what Sherlock has been through in some way.

 

Drunken stag night -- yeah! I loved it, because I thought it was only silly on the surface of things. To me, those scenes are both funny, absurd and sad.

Killing unnoticed -- you mean "the invisible man with the invisible knife"? It wasn't a very interesting case, but it felt Dolye-ish for me and in all, I liked it. Can't say Major Sholto did much for me, though.

So3 Mary -- all things considered, I love her.

 

Airfield -- one of my favorites in the whole series now. Very good to have at the end of so much melodramatic "epicness".

Moriarty -- I wouldn't mind his reappearance if they hadn't made it clear before that he died. I hate resurrections as a rule, so I vehemently protest against this one. Besides, if he's alive then The Fall was all the more for nothing! How terrible is that?

HLV Mary -- I like the ice cold psychopath behind the lovely smile, that's just fine with me. I only thought her background was a bit dull and over the top. "CIA trained assassin". Really. Couldn't they have come with a more interesting and original secret?

[Janie]

Ok, my long version:

 

Explanations - Loved it! At first it seemed too crazy to me but then I realized that it's ingenious and funny. And about the official explanation, well, I decided not to believe everything Sherlock said. I think the "technical" part (how he did it) is true but the rest doesn't have to be. Why would he tell Anderson everything? So I'm ok with it.

 

Mycroft - I didn't vote. I think Mycroft should have done something to prevent Sherlock from being beaten but this scene doesn't really bother me. 

 

Suprise - Yay! Funny and sad at the same time. Loved that scene though I felt a bit sorry for Sherlock. 

 

 

Stag night - the first part (up to the point when the nurse turned up) was hillarious. The rest was a bit over the top but overall I liked it. So Yay!

 

Killing someone unnoticed - Didn't vote. The case wasn't particularly interesting though there were good moments. 

 

Mary - Loved her. But she seemed a bit too perfect so I was expecting something would happen to her in HLV. So Yay!

 

 

Airfield - one of my favourite scenes in S3. Sad, touching, emotional. 

 

Moriarty - Definitely nay. I loved him in S1 and S2 but I really hope he will stay dead. 

 

Mary in HLV - Didn't vote. I still like her but can't say I'm ver happy with what the writers did with her. I agree with T.o.b.y that the assassin background is a bit over the top. At least she's no longer perfect. 

 

 

 

[sherlockandjohn]

I'm a little unsure about the stag night, because it is very funny - it just went on a bit too long, and it feels like a somewhat silly attempt to make Sherlock more 'human'. Though I do love his comment afterwards: "What a wasted opportunity!"

 

About Sherlock being tortured: We can only guess what else he might have been through those 2 years, and I'm sure not all of it has been pretty. The horror of the torture, though, falls into the background for me, because I'm focused on the upcoming reunion. Even when watching it for the 12th time. But if I think about it, Sherlock is bound to have had a difficult time away from London, and from his friends. I was actually expecting to see some repercussions of that, but I didn't. He came right back as if he'd never been away; apart from his reunion with John. That's a bit of a disappointment, actually. John never asks about those 2 years - not from what we get to see, anyway. Neither does he show Sherlock exactly how thrilled he is to have him back. We knew he had to deal with shock, pain and anger first, but I would have liked to see more obvious joy afterwards.

 

Some things in both TEH and HLV were simply skipped, it seems to me. Left up to our own imagination.

[T.o.b.y]

I'm a little unsure about the stag night, because it is very funny - it just went on a bit too long, and it feels like a somewhat silly attempt to make Sherlock more 'human'. Though I do love his comment afterwards: "What a wasted opportunity!"

 

About Sherlock being tortured: We can only guess what else he might have been through those 2 years, and I'm sure not all of it has been pretty. The horror of the torture, though, falls into the background for me, because I'm focused on the upcoming reunion. Even when watching it for the 12th time. But if I think about it, Sherlock is bound to have had a difficult time away from London, and from his friends. I was actually expecting to see some repercussions of that, but I didn't. He came right back as if he'd never been away; apart from his reunion with John. That's a bit of a disappointment, actually. John never asks about those 2 years - not from what we get to see, anyway. Neither does he show Sherlock exactly how thrilled he is to have him back. We knew he had to deal with shock, pain and anger first, but I would have liked to see more obvious joy afterwards.

 

Some things in both TEH and HLV were simply skipped, it seems to me. Left up to our own imagination.

 

Uh-huh. It bothers me a little sometimes. Of course it ensures that everybody is happy because each can make up a version he or (more likely) she likes best, but I don't feel like doing all the work when I'm trying to enjoy a good story...

 

In the original, Watson did ask what Holmes had been up to, of course, and got a rather bragging account of wonderful travels and outrageous adventures. Yet he noticed that Holmes looked more thin and worn than ever, as if he had been "using himself" roughly. Perhaps what we saw in The Empty Hearse was an interpretation of that discrepancy. As such, I rather like it. I am sure that if John ever asked, Sherlock told him only tales of wonder and triumph. And John is the last person likely to guess the (other side of) the truth. He really believes in Sherlock Holmes, the great detective. Which is probably one of the reasons Sherlock likes to have him around.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

In the original, Watson did ask what Holmes had been up to, of course, and got a rather bragging account of wonderful travels and outrageous adventures. Yet he noticed that Holmes looked more thin and worn than ever, as if he had been "using himself" roughly. Perhaps what we saw in The Empty Hearse was an interpretation of that discrepancy. As such, I rather like it. I am sure that if John ever asked, Sherlock told him only tales of wonder and triumph. And John is the last person likely to guess the (other side of) the truth.

 

 

Well, we know that John tends to be gullible with Sherlock, and romanticise their adventures, so it may well be true that he wouldn't guess about the horror. Still, he's an army doctor, and should perhaps know better. Anyway, I suppose he just believes Sherlock to be invinsible, more or less. Which is the truth! To an almost ridiculous degree.

 

And yes; Sherlock's words that he is 'known to be indestructable', plus his desire to show off, also lead me to believe that he would happily turn his experiences into adventures. He doesn't seem to linger in fear; he shakes it off immediately after a dangerous situation has been dealt with. Or while he's dealing with it.

[Arcadia]

If (everything's "if" now :-(   -- IF I go by Sherlock's behavior in the first few scenes, I would say that all in all he had the time of his life while he was away. He seems very relaxed, almost giddy, and terribly pleased with himself. And why wouldn't he? ... he's been off doing what he loves most -- chasing down criminals -- plus I would imagine he had virtually no constraints on his behavior while he was away. I would think that's Sherlock's idea of the perfect vacation!

[sherlockandjohn]

Also very possible, Arcadia! His behavior could certainly lead us to believe he's been having a great time. But then again, even if he's had a rough time, he's probably not one to let others know. My guess is it's been a little of both - yes, he's been in danger and pain, but then again, he likes danger and solving crimes... and we saw in 'Many Happy Returns' that he didn't spend all his time dismantling Moriarty's web... he also had time to solve a mystery here and there. He could hardly live without it!

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

 

Some things in both TEH and HLV were simply skipped, it seems to me. Left up to our own imagination.

 

Uh-huh. It bothers me a little sometimes. Of course it ensures that everybody is happy because each can make up a version he or (more likely) she likes best, but I don't feel like doing all the work when I'm trying to enjoy a good story...

 

 

Neither do I. Moreover, while I like having some degree of my own interpretation, I cannot bring myself to interpret things in a way that goes against how the writers intended them. So with all these holes I feel that I don't know what the writers intended, and that sometimes bothers me.

[Arcadia]

... and we saw in 'Many Happy Returns' that he didn't spend all his time dismantling Moriarty's web... he also had time to solve a mystery here and there. He could hardly live without it!

 

Oh. I thought that WAS him dismantling Moriarty's web! It didn't occur to me that he was also solving other crimes along the way. But yes, of course he would, wouldn't he. Geez, now I'm wondering why he bothered to return to London at all if he was having such a fab time!

[Arcadia]

 

 

 

 

Some things in both TEH and HLV were simply skipped, it seems to me. Left up to our own imagination.

 

Uh-huh. It bothers me a little sometimes. Of course it ensures that everybody is happy because each can make up a version he or (more likely) she likes best, but I don't feel like doing all the work when I'm trying to enjoy a good story...

 

 

Neither do I. Moreover, while I like having some degree of my own interpretation, I cannot bring myself to interpret things in a way that goes against how the writers intended them. So with all these holes I feel that I don't know what the writers intended, and that sometimes bothers me.

 

Agreed, agreed, and agreed.

[Slithytove]

If we are explaining how we voted:

 

Explanations - Yay! Don't think the "official" explanation made things clearer - rathe the opposite - but I enjoyed them, particularly the nods towards the fan theories.

Mycroft -Yay! It was dramatic and seemed like something Mycroft would do - a rescue, but without warmth or heart.

Surprise - Yay! What's not to love? Funny, with a layer of sadness.

 

Stag night - Yay! I don't mind Sherlock having a human side, as long a he retains his essential snottiness the rest of the time.

The invisible knife - Nay! Stabbing someone hours ago, without them noticing? Far fetched even for Sherlock.

Mary - Yay! Sweet, lovely and understanding.

 

Airfield - Nay! Cold and depressing. Oh, John, you can do better than this....

Moriarty - Yay! Sorry, I don't care if he has come back miraculously from the dead. He's my kind of psychopath.

Mary - Nay! Not because she's bad but because it feels as if we are still supposed to like her. And because of what the storyline does to John's character.

 

And yet, in spite of the above, I thought HLV was brilliant - mainly for the Mind Palace scenes.

[sherlockandjohn]

I've changed my voting on the stag night, because I fully enjoy it now.

 

Only thing I'm not sure about is Mary. I've voted 'nay', but that's pretty much for the same reason as Slithytove gives above. I kind of like that she gives me the chills sometimes, but I certainly don't like everything she does, and I feel like John and Sherlock have more sympathy with her than I do. Much of my opinion of her depends on what happens next.

[jesskayding]

So far looks like majority yay for TEH & SO3, majority nay for HLV. This is cool to see.

[joanneta1]

If we are doing explanations for our votes, then here's my penn'worth of it:

TEH

a) various explanations of the Fall, yay, especially in his 'official' one to get a bit of his own back on Anderson for what Anderson alleged against him in the Fall

b ) Mycroft's involvement in Serbia, yay, because he did it in his usual detached, dispassionate way, and as Sherlock observes later, he got himself out, so Mycroft simply "waded in" to give him his new marching orders

c) Sherlock's attempt to surprise John in the restaurant, a very emphatic yay, because he will never cease to surprise poor Dr. Watson in any guise, ever.

SoT

a) The drunken/night scenes, nay, except for Tessa's involvement and Lestrade bailing them out next morning, I always fast-forward that bit, it goes on fo far too long

b ) killing someone unnoticed, yay, even Sherlock did not solve it in his first attempt, pretty devious as a ploy

c) Mary, yay. What is there not to like about such a lovely bride, who also reacts to Sherlock's trainwreck/ brilliant best man's speech to keep him in check?

HLV

a) airfield scene, an emphatic yay, even if Dr. Watson and Mary do not know that he is going on a one-way trip away from his beloved London, he manages to keep his feelings and voice under control masterfully

b ) Moriarity's return, nay, there are some wonderful villains in the Holmes universe, the creators don't have to run with this particular chestnut forever, despite Andrew Scott's wonderfully playful villain

c) Mary in HLV, emphatically nay, shooting Sherlock and having a past as a gun for hire are both no-no s, apart from making John so miserable

Magnussen as a villain is even better than Irene Adler in outplaying Sherlock, however shooting him in public is not a good idea, the hero should not be made into a villain.